Lies point us to the truth #3

The R’s say that they weren’t that good of friends before JB’s demise. There was that recent trip to NYC, together. Also it was SS that opened the door to the police during the party on the 23rd without inviting them inside for Christmas Cheer. Makes me wonder in the back of my mind how much BR and DS played (perhaps doctor) with JB behind closed doors. Perhaps SS was in awe of PR or maybe a little bit more. Either way, something’s point in this direction. All because of the tossing aside they did with other friends in Boulder. Plus, as Meara has so gracefully pointed out to us (via link):
  • Mike Bynum told Fleet White that Haddon and Morgan were handling things and that he should stay out of it. (As Fleet told me, that is when the intimidation began. The night of December 26, 1996 at 5PM, Mike Bynum summoned Fleet to his office. Apparently FW knew to much about JB’s death as a witness. The law firm went several steps further (here is one more):
  • Haddon had his PI’s on the street early AM 12/27/96, often beating the BPD to witnesses. And so we are left to wonder about the neighbors of the R’s: Joe Barnhill, and Melody Staton.


FW was not wondering around in the dark down there. As a matter of fact it was said the basement lights were already on that morning. Sure the wine cellar was completely dark as was the room behind the laundry; plus the closets. Since all rooms had light switches; one would not need a flashlight.
It is further said that JR had such bad eyesight that he could not fly (had to have a pilot) and that FW had 20/20.
Yes, JR disappearance that morning was very questionable. To move the body is extremely risky. I think that FW didn’t see inside the wine cellar because it was so dark in there. The hall lighting wasn’t enough to see inside. Although he may have seen something there but couldn’t make out what it was. I believe the reading in as to why JR saw JB immediately upon entering the wine cellar is because he knew where JB was resting. PR sat directly above her daughter’s corpse; in the sunroom. I further understand she vomited that morning in that room.


BR said he was in the basement playing and PR was down there on the 25th wrapping presents. Maybe he opened those gifts that morning and lead JB down that path that night? He admits to going down stairs the night of the 25th after his folks went to bed. JB’s feet were dusty. Which leads me to believe she was walking down there before her tragic end. Also she was SA and strangled in front of the wine cellar door. Yes, BR was in the wine cellar and according to him he opened the gifts. Admittedly so did PR? Why did they both confess? We could also look at the dna found on the top/bottom, inside/outside of the Barbie nightgown (with JB blood found along the front) to go deeper.

Thank you for your input!
Yes. I do believe that they perceived whatever Fleet White knew, or observed was a threat to the smoke screens that went immediately into effect. The fact that Bynum had such heavy hitter lawyers already on board the day after Christmas when most people who can be are still on holiday speaks volumes I think. And they did get to witnesses before BPD. There was a fix in pretty much immediately and I'm sure the DA was a part of it. Oh, to be a fly on the wall....

I have also read that because of JR's relationship with LM, a defense contractor, that there very detailed and specific plans in place for kidnappings that may involve "foreign factions" which JR would have not only known about, but had to have agreed to. And it requires the first phone call to be to the security division for them to alert higher ups in the company as well as then begin to handle discreetly. A kidnapping is a threat not only to national security, but also to any other officer in the company who also may be targeted. They take such things very seriously. So it's interesting that the very phrase "foreign faction" was used in the RN, but also that the R's did not follow the very specific directions from LM as to how to handle such an event. I also think the phone records conveniently disappeared / were wiped after the DA refused to allow them to be subpoenaed, because they probably showed that phone calls between Jr and Bynum started well before the 911 call was made. Or JR and someone else, but it wasn't LM security. LM would never have advised them to call 911. I wonder who did?

I do think it's possible with the basement lights on and the wine cellar door fairly widely open that there would have been enough light for Fleet to have seen something had something been there. And it is at the least very interesting that when asked to look around the house again by Arndt, JR went straight to where the body was. I would be very interested to know what it was that they felt Fleet knew or saw that was a threat.

Good question as to why both PR and BR admitted to opening presents.
 
I also think the phone records conveniently disappeared / were wiped after the DA refused to allow them to be subpoenaed, because they probably showed that phone calls between Jr and Bynum started well before the 911 call was made. Or JR and someone else, but it wasn't LM security. LM would never have advised them to call 911. I wonder who did?
CloudedTruth,
I have said this many, many times about this case: money talks!
Here is are some quotes from Meara’s link she posted:
Now as to the Ramseys' phone records, according to ST, BPD made a very early formal request to AH, a tight friend of Haddon's and Bynum's, for a subpoena for phone records. AH did not decline the request but just didn't act on it. It took a year for BPD to get legal access to them only to discover that the crucial records for the month preceding and during JB's death were missing, not sealed under any order. WHO in Boulder Backwoods Colorado had the power to get the phone company to erase a customer's phone records. There was no need to get any order from anyone outside CO, not even the White House, because Haddon has and always will as long as he's alive the absolute right power connections in CO to make things appear and disappear at will. Why would he? Was it to assist innocent parents cover up the death of their daughter in protection of their son? Or was it a favor to Access Graphics bigwigs who didn't want any embarassment? And who called off the FBI? My guess is it was all about JR's money. Period.

I do think it's possible with the basement lights on and the wine cellar door fairly widely open that there would have been enough light for Fleet to have seen something had something been there. And it is at the least very interesting that when asked to look around the house again by Arndt, JR went straight to where the body was. I would be very interested to know what it was that they felt Fleet knew or saw that was a threat.
Fleet didn't see her because the light was off and he didn't proceed past the doorway.

The BPD employed light techs to reproduce the same lighting conditions that existed when the body was found, to test whether it was possible to see a decoy body in the same spot and position of JBR, from the doorway with the lights off.

They said that it was "black as a coal mine at midnight" and furthermore, the body was largely blocked by the angle of the door and wall. They found that even with the wine cellar light turned on, she wasn't visible from the doorway; one had to completely enter the room and look to one's left to see her.

This both explains why Fleet didn't see her, and makes John's actions doubly suspicious.

He and Fleet both stated that they did not turn the light on or enter the room initially, and John allegedly saw her body from the doorway. As noted above, the body was not visible from the angle John purportedly saw it.

John said in an interview he "just knew" she was there. Of coarse he did!

Good question as to why both PR and BR admitted to opening presents.
I am of the opinion that PR was covering for BR. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. He was asleep the entire time according to PR.

His boot print, knowledge of his knife being in the basement, his dna found on the Barbie night gown, how JB was killed all point to his participation.
 
CloudedTruth,
I have said this many, many times about this case: money talks!
Here is are some quotes from Meara’s link she posted:
Now as to the Ramseys' phone records, according to ST, BPD made a very early formal request to AH, a tight friend of Haddon's and Bynum's, for a subpoena for phone records. AH did not decline the request but just didn't act on it. It took a year for BPD to get legal access to them only to discover that the crucial records for the month preceding and during JB's death were missing, not sealed under any order. WHO in Boulder Backwoods Colorado had the power to get the phone company to erase a customer's phone records. There was no need to get any order from anyone outside CO, not even the White House, because Haddon has and always will as long as he's alive the absolute right power connections in CO to make things appear and disappear at will. Why would he? Was it to assist innocent parents cover up the death of their daughter in protection of their son? Or was it a favor to Access Graphics bigwigs who didn't want any embarassment? And who called off the FBI? My guess is it was all about JR's money. Period.


Fleet didn't see her because the light was off and he didn't proceed past the doorway.

The BPD employed light techs to reproduce the same lighting conditions that existed when the body was found, to test whether it was possible to see a decoy body in the same spot and position of JBR, from the doorway with the lights off.

They said that it was "black as a coal mine at midnight" and furthermore, the body was largely blocked by the angle of the door and wall. They found that even with the wine cellar light turned on, she wasn't visible from the doorway; one had to completely enter the room and look to one's left to see her.

This both explains why Fleet didn't see her, and makes John's actions doubly suspicious.

He and Fleet both stated that they did not turn the light on or enter the room initially, and John allegedly saw her body from the doorway. As noted above, the body was not visible from the angle John purportedly saw it.

John said in an interview he "just knew" she was there. Of coarse he did!


I am of the opinion that PR was covering for BR. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. He was asleep the entire time according to PR.

His boot print, knowledge of his knife being in the basement, his dna found on the Barbie night gown, how JB was killed all point to his participation.
Thank you for the details. I was unaware that BPD tested the lights in that area. They were doing due diligence but hands were definitely tied by the DA's office and higher powers. It's no wonder there was so much frustration. Some got bad raps for being vocal about what was going on, and what wasn't. Despite some errors having been made when one looks at the whole of this case from 10000 feet above, it's so very clear that there were cover ups and quiet obstruction going on. It should give everyone pause who actually still believes in the intruder theory.
 
CloudedTruth,
I have said this many, many times about this case: money talks!
Here is are some quotes from Meara’s link she posted:
Now as to the Ramseys' phone records, according to ST, BPD made a very early formal request to AH, a tight friend of Haddon's and Bynum's, for a subpoena for phone records. AH did not decline the request but just didn't act on it. It took a year for BPD to get legal access to them only to discover that the crucial records for the month preceding and during JB's death were missing, not sealed under any order. WHO in Boulder Backwoods Colorado had the power to get the phone company to erase a customer's phone records. There was no need to get any order from anyone outside CO, not even the White House, because Haddon has and always will as long as he's alive the absolute right power connections in CO to make things appear and disappear at will. Why would he? Was it to assist innocent parents cover up the death of their daughter in protection of their son? Or was it a favor to Access Graphics bigwigs who didn't want any embarassment? And who called off the FBI? My guess is it was all about JR's money. Period.


Fleet didn't see her because the light was off and he didn't proceed past the doorway.

The BPD employed light techs to reproduce the same lighting conditions that existed when the body was found, to test whether it was possible to see a decoy body in the same spot and position of JBR, from the doorway with the lights off.

They said that it was "black as a coal mine at midnight" and furthermore, the body was largely blocked by the angle of the door and wall. They found that even with the wine cellar light turned on, she wasn't visible from the doorway; one had to completely enter the room and look to one's left to see her.

This both explains why Fleet didn't see her, and makes John's actions doubly suspicious.

He and Fleet both stated that they did not turn the light on or enter the room initially, and John allegedly saw her body from the doorway. As noted above, the body was not visible from the angle John purportedly saw it.

John said in an interview he "just knew" she was there. Of coarse he did!


I am of the opinion that PR was covering for BR. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. He was asleep the entire time according to PR.

His boot print, knowledge of his knife being in the basement, his dna found on the Barbie night gown, how JB was killed all point to his participation.
Thank you for the details. I was unaware that BPD tested the lights in that area. They were doing due diligence but hands were definitely tied by the DA's office and higher powers. It's no wonder there was so much frustration. Some got bad raps for being vocal about what was going on, and what wasn't. Despite some errors having been made when one looks at the whole of this case from 10000 feet above, it's so very clear that there were cover ups and quiet obstruction going on. It should give everyone pause who actually still believes in the intruder theory.
 
CloudedTruth,
I have said this many, many times about this case: money talks!
Here is are some quotes from Meara’s link she posted:
Now as to the Ramseys' phone records, according to ST, BPD made a very early formal request to AH, a tight friend of Haddon's and Bynum's, for a subpoena for phone records. AH did not decline the request but just didn't act on it. It took a year for BPD to get legal access to them only to discover that the crucial records for the month preceding and during JB's death were missing, not sealed under any order. WHO in Boulder Backwoods Colorado had the power to get the phone company to erase a customer's phone records. There was no need to get any order from anyone outside CO, not even the White House, because Haddon has and always will as long as he's alive the absolute right power connections in CO to make things appear and disappear at will. Why would he? Was it to assist innocent parents cover up the death of their daughter in protection of their son? Or was it a favor to Access Graphics bigwigs who didn't want any embarassment? And who called off the FBI? My guess is it was all about JR's money. Period.


Fleet didn't see her because the light was off and he didn't proceed past the doorway.

The BPD employed light techs to reproduce the same lighting conditions that existed when the body was found, to test whether it was possible to see a decoy body in the same spot and position of JBR, from the doorway with the lights off.

They said that it was "black as a coal mine at midnight" and furthermore, the body was largely blocked by the angle of the door and wall. They found that even with the wine cellar light turned on, she wasn't visible from the doorway; one had to completely enter the room and look to one's left to see her.

This both explains why Fleet didn't see her, and makes John's actions doubly suspicious.

He and Fleet both stated that they did not turn the light on or enter the room initially, and John allegedly saw her body from the doorway. As noted above, the body was not visible from the angle John purportedly saw it.

John said in an interview he "just knew" she was there. Of coarse he did!


I am of the opinion that PR was covering for BR. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. He was asleep the entire time according to PR.

His boot print, knowledge of his knife being in the basement, his dna found on the Barbie night gown, how JB was killed all point to his participation.
Thank you for the details. I was unaware that BPD tested the lights in that area. They were doing due diligence but hands were definitely tied by the DA's office and higher powers. It's no wonder there was so much frustration. Some got bad raps for being vocal about what was going on, and what wasn't. Despite some errors having been made when one looks at the whole of this case from 10000 feet above, it's so very clear that there were cover ups and quiet obstruction going on. It should give everyone pause who actually still believes in the intruder theory.
 
I'm glad there's some interest in spade's thread from FFJ! I have Tricia's permission to copy that thread in its entirety into a new thread here and will try to get to that tomorrow (Wednesday) so that others will be aware of it, too, and related discussion can be gathered together.
 
And then on the other hand, it could have been BR. Since he took after his father with his anger issues
He hit JonBenet with a golf club once. He was 7. By all but one account it was an accident. She was clipped on her cheek which would fit with the scenario of her having walked into his back swing. I'm not seeing any particular pattern of "anger issues".
 
He hit JonBenet with a golf club once. He was 7. By all but one account it was an accident. She was clipped on her cheek which would fit with the scenario of her having walked into his back swing. I'm not seeing any particular pattern of "anger issues".
I have read that initially PR told Judith Phillips that BR and JBR were having "an altercation" and that "things got out of hand", and he deliberately hit her with the golf club. PR later of course claimed that it was an accident, which became the official account moving forward. Judith however stuck to the story of what PR had allegedly told her, that it was deliberate, and has also mentioned that BR had a temper which she witnessed on more than one occasion.

Per her often used tactic, PR downplayed this event when interviewed by LE, emphasizing how BR was "just a little guy" when it happened. She was concerned enough about the injury, described as an abrasion, to consult a plastic surgeon. I have to wonder how that made BR feel. And JR was of course not around when this happened, so there is no perspective from him.
 
Further to this subject of BR and his temper and overall behavioral issues, it's an interesting subject. Many have wondered if he was / is on the spectrum, and while his medical records were sealed by his parents so that all we have is speculation based upon what has been revealed about his behavior, I do think it's valid to question what may have been at the root of his behavioral issues.

We know that he also had a bedwetting problem when he was younger. We also know that he had a disturbing issue with scatolia which seemed most often to be directed towards his sister. Then there were the outbursts of temper that occurred, which interestingly people have noted this tendency was shared with his father. Was this all from jealousy of JBR? Certainly that's possible. And add to that PR's illness which resulted in her having to spend time away from the kids and isolated from them during her treatment. And then there was the death of JR's oldest daughter. A lot for kids under the age of 10 to deal with for sure.

Aside from being messy and not picking up after himself, of which JBR was also guilty, BR seems to have been a nice kid. He was a boy scout, had friends and I am not aware of any incidents of concern at school. His interests for a kid his age seem to be normal. He had a fairly privileged life with housekeepers to pick up after him, nice vacations, plenty of material possessions, etc. What seems to have been missing, was parental interest in teaching him (as well as JBR) about personal responsibility with regard to toileting habits, hygiene, and simple acts of putting toys and clothing away when done using those things. PR was way more invested in JBR and her pageants and all that entailed than anything BR was interested in. And JR was in addition to working a lot and being away on business trips, and emotionally distant father. I can only imagine that being raised in an atmosphere where appearances seem to be more important that actual parenting, issues would arise.

If there is truth to the golf club story in that it was deliberate and not an accident, this should have been a wake up call to the parents that there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Was he under the care of a therapist as has been suggested? Was there ever a conversation between the parents that perhaps something special with BR would be appropriate for one or both parents to undertake with him like PR had with JBR with the pageantry? Appearances seem to suggest that BR kind of got pushed to the side when JBR came along.....the beautiful little golden girl, apple of both mom and dad's eyes who was described as sweet & kind, having a definite stage presence and a sparkling quality. How has BR been described? There's a pretty obvious difference there, which I think has its origins in what the R's themselves put out about their children. I cannot imagine that this would not have impacted BR in some way. He can't be described necessarily as neglected, but he certainly ran a distant 2nd to his younger sister.

Some of his demeanor after her death I think can be directly related to how protected he was by his parents. He was sheltered big time and kept out of the public eye, which would help explain his awkwardness with people and in public view. He appears to this day to be nervous, uncertain of himself and uncomfortable in public situations. He works remotely. His moving past his sister's death so quickly could be a sign that it offered a sense of relief to him, that things now could return to the "normal" that he experienced before she was born, where he was the center of attention. He famously drew the family without her within a few short weeks of her death. She wasn't there anymore and he seemed remarkably nonchalant about it. This by no means indicates that he was responsible for her death, as I would think unless he's a sociopathic / psychopathic monster he would be feeling some remorse, some regret, some responsibility. And yet he seems very pragmatic and carefree. Bottom line IMO, this all points back to the parents as not having done a very good job in parenting. They did not protect either of their children adequately. The "protection" of BR only started after the murder. If he was responsible, emphasis on if, and there were signs beforehand that they ignored or brushed aside, they did him a disservice by not getting him appropriate help. And if he wasn't, they still responded in such a way as to somewhat overprotect which has resulted in an emotionally and socially awkward young man whose demeanor continues to raise questions as to his guilt.

No one is perfect of course. And child rearing can be very challenging. Some manage it better than others. The choices made when kids are young most likely impact them for the rest of their lives.
 
Further to this subject of BR and his temper and overall behavioral issues, it's an interesting subject. Many have wondered if he was / is on the spectrum, and while his medical records were sealed by his parents so that all we have is speculation based upon what has been revealed about his behavior, I do think it's valid to question what may have been at the root of his behavioral issues.

We know that he also had a bedwetting problem when he was younger. We also know that he had a disturbing issue with scatolia which seemed most often to be directed towards his sister. Then there were the outbursts of temper that occurred, which interestingly people have noted this tendency was shared with his father. Was this all from jealousy of JBR? Certainly that's possible. And add to that PR's illness which resulted in her having to spend time away from the kids and isolated from them during her treatment. And then there was the death of JR's oldest daughter. A lot for kids under the age of 10 to deal with for sure.

Aside from being messy and not picking up after himself, of which JBR was also guilty, BR seems to have been a nice kid. He was a boy scout, had friends and I am not aware of any incidents of concern at school. His interests for a kid his age seem to be normal. He had a fairly privileged life with housekeepers to pick up after him, nice vacations, plenty of material possessions, etc. What seems to have been missing, was parental interest in teaching him (as well as JBR) about personal responsibility with regard to toileting habits, hygiene, and simple acts of putting toys and clothing away when done using those things. PR was way more invested in JBR and her pageants and all that entailed than anything BR was interested in. And JR was in addition to working a lot and being away on business trips, and emotionally distant father. I can only imagine that being raised in an atmosphere where appearances seem to be more important that actual parenting, issues would arise.

If there is truth to the golf club story in that it was deliberate and not an accident, this should have been a wake up call to the parents that there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Was he under the care of a therapist as has been suggested? Was there ever a conversation between the parents that perhaps something special with BR would be appropriate for one or both parents to undertake with him like PR had with JBR with the pageantry? Appearances seem to suggest that BR kind of got pushed to the side when JBR came along.....the beautiful little golden girl, apple of both mom and dad's eyes who was described as sweet & kind, having a definite stage presence and a sparkling quality. How has BR been described? There's a pretty obvious difference there, which I think has its origins in what the R's themselves put out about their children. I cannot imagine that this would not have impacted BR in some way. He can't be described necessarily as neglected, but he certainly ran a distant 2nd to his younger sister.

Some of his demeanor after her death I think can be directly related to how protected he was by his parents. He was sheltered big time and kept out of the public eye, which would help explain his awkwardness with people and in public view. He appears to this day to be nervous, uncertain of himself and uncomfortable in public situations. He works remotely. His moving past his sister's death so quickly could be a sign that it offered a sense of relief to him, that things now could return to the "normal" that he experienced before she was born, where he was the center of attention. He famously drew the family without her within a few short weeks of her death. She wasn't there anymore and he seemed remarkably nonchalant about it. This by no means indicates that he was responsible for her death, as I would think unless he's a sociopathic / psychopathic monster he would be feeling some remorse, some regret, some responsibility. And yet he seems very pragmatic and carefree. Bottom line IMO, this all points back to the parents as not having done a very good job in parenting. They did not protect either of their children adequately. The "protection" of BR only started after the murder. If he was responsible, emphasis on if, and there were signs beforehand that they ignored or brushed aside, they did him a disservice by not getting him appropriate help. And if he wasn't, they still responded in such a way as to somewhat overprotect which has resulted in an emotionally and socially awkward young man whose demeanor continues to raise questions as to his guilt.

No one is perfect of course. And child rearing can be very challenging. Some manage it better than others. The choices made when kids are young most likely impact them for the rest of their lives.
CloudedTruth,
Yes, from birth to age 7 is said to be the formative years. BR was the apple of PR eye until JB came along. Considering this he had to be jealous of her presence. I do know that both children were seeing a therapist at the time of the murder.

The R’s moved to Boulder in 1991. JB was born in 1990. So my question would be: why was BR seeing a psychiatrist in Atlanta?
Dr. Jaffe was BR doctor in Atlanta at the time of JB death and most likely before her death as he is in Atlanta. He prescribed JR Prozac after the murder. Here is his info:

Dr. Steven L. Jaffe is a psychiatrist in Atlanta, Georgia. He received his medical degree from Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University and has been in practice for more than 20 years. Dr. Steven L. Jaffe is highly recommended by patients.

SPECIALTY​

Psychiatry
Psychiatrists diagnose and treat mental illness, such as depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and schizophrenia. Most psychiatrists rely on a mix of medications and psychotherapy.

SUBSPECIALTIES​

Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
______________________

To answer most of your questions about BR we can look at Judith Phillips whom was friends with PR for 10 years. They had been friends in Atlanta and then reconnected in Boulder. According to JP, BR had violent outbursts and was of the opinion that he had accidentally killed JB. That he was very jealous of JB. I recall a story where JP was at SS home and BR screamed at JP. No one said a word to BR @ the time. This story has long since disappeared from the net. She has stated that according to PR, BR did hit JB with the golf club purposely. But then this is a he said, she said situation I have to admit. PR kicked JP to the curb because JP (whom took photographs of JB) was being offered money to sell the photos after the murder. This enraged SS and PR. So, JP sold them.

IMO, BR is today as he was when JB was murdered. He doesn’t seem concerned or troubled with/about JB death. Maybe this would explain his only sign of emotion of JB passing was at her graveside. He was seen patting her coffin and then skipping amongst the headstones. Happy and glad you’re gone; he seems to be saying IMO.
 
CloudedTruth,
Yes, from birth to age 7 is said to be the formative years. BR was the apple of PR eye until JB came along. Considering this he had to be jealous of her presence. I do know that both children were seeing a therapist at the time of the murder.

The R’s moved to Boulder in 1991. JB was born in 1990. So my question would be: why was BR seeing a psychiatrist in Atlanta?
Dr. Jaffe was BR doctor in Atlanta at the time of JB death and most likely before her death as he is in Atlanta. He prescribed JR Prozac after the murder. Here is his info:

Dr. Steven L. Jaffe is a psychiatrist in Atlanta, Georgia. He received his medical degree from Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University and has been in practice for more than 20 years. Dr. Steven L. Jaffe is highly recommended by patients.

SPECIALTY​

Psychiatry
Psychiatrists diagnose and treat mental illness, such as depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and schizophrenia. Most psychiatrists rely on a mix of medications and psychotherapy.

SUBSPECIALTIES​

Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
______________________

To answer most of your questions about BR we can look at Judith Phillips whom was friends with PR for 10 years. They had been friends in Atlanta and then reconnected in Boulder. According to JP, BR had violent outbursts and was of the opinion that he had accidentally killed JB. That he was very jealous of JB. I recall a story where JP was at SS home and BR screamed at JP. No one said a word to BR @ the time. This story has long since disappeared from the net. She has stated that according to PR, BR did hit JB with the golf club purposely. But then this is a he said, she said situation I have to admit. PR kicked JP to the curb because JP (whom took photographs of JB) was being offered money to sell the photos after the murder. This enraged SS and PR. So, JP sold them.

IMO, BR is today as he was when JB was murdered. He doesn’t seem concerned or troubled with/about JB death. Maybe this would explain his only sign of emotion of JB passing was at her graveside. He was seen patting her coffin and then skipping amongst the headstones. Happy and glad you’re gone; he seems to be saying IMO.
I had read that BR was seeing a therapist, but wasn't sure if that was rumor or truth. Very interesting that it began in Atlanta, which of course points to known issues well before JBR came along. I tend to believe that JP was telling the truth about the golf club incident and I do believe that BR had anger issues. Impossible to know what the R's really thought about his issues. Obviously someone recognized the need for him to see a professional, but I wonder if they figured that out on their own or were encouraged by others....perhaps PR's parents. I keep coming back to my overall take on how the R's handled their parenting duties, it feels like they only wanted to deal with the positive aspects of parenting. I think it's quite interesting that JR's older children, who were mostly raised by their mother, his first wife, seemed to be much better adjusted and forgive the characterization, but "normal". It would appear that the majority of dealing with the two younger kids was left to PR. That kind of speaks volumes to me.

I recently watched a video presented by a body language expert with his take on the interview that BR did with Dr. Phil. He noted lots of discomfort, some truth, some deception and that BR was definitely jealous of JBR. He concluded that it was not BR who killed her, even accidentally, and I will stress that this is just his opinion, but that he felt from observing his body language when answering certain questions that BR didn't really like her. Did not have those feelings of brotherly love. He resented her and how she took his place as the apple in his parents eyes. So he wasn't really sad when she was gone. I think it's an interesting take that he neither really loved her or hated her. And that speaks to someone who has an emotional issue of some sort. Grown up BR has never married, so far anyway, although it has been reported that he has a girlfriend. It would be fascinating to know what few people who are in his orbit think of him, have observed about him.
 
I tend to think it was all Patsy but I do remember seeing a video on YouTube where the parents were essentially asked if Burke did it and there reaction just seemed strange to me. They were no longer as confident looking when talking about the crime and whether there was an intruder or not. They didn't say anything damning but I never saw them look that nervous and uncomfortable in interviews before.
 
I had read that BR was seeing a therapist, but wasn't sure if that was rumor or truth. Very interesting that it began in Atlanta, which of course points to known issues well before JBR came along. I tend to believe that JP was telling the truth about the golf club incident and I do believe that BR had anger issues. Impossible to know what the R's really thought about his issues. Obviously someone recognized the need for him to see a professional, but I wonder if they figured that out on their own or were encouraged by others....perhaps PR's parents. I keep coming back to my overall take on how the R's handled their parenting duties, it feels like they only wanted to deal with the positive aspects of parenting. I think it's quite interesting that JR's older children, who were mostly raised by their mother, his first wife, seemed to be much better adjusted and forgive the characterization, but "normal". It would appear that the majority of dealing with the two younger kids was left to PR. That kind of speaks volumes to me.
CloudedTruth,
VOLUME 1 OF 4
14 PAGES 1 - 246
JUNE 23RD, 1998

FOR JOHN RAMSEY'S INTERVIEW,
THE FOLLOWING WERE PRESENT
LOU SMIT
MIKE KANE
BRYAN MORGAN
DAVID WILLIAMS

LOU SMIT: Okay. Are you under, taking any
7 medication?
JOHN RAMSEY: Taking Prozac.
LOU SMIT: Okay.
JOHN RAMSEY: Twenty milligrams in the
morning, ten milligrams at night.
LOU SMIT: Okay. And who is the doctor?
JOHN RAMSEY: Well, Dr. Sheevy, Catherine
is who I saw in Boulder. Well I haven't
seen her in a while. Steven Jaffe, Dr. Steven
Jaffe in Atlanta, prescribed the Prozac for me.
LOU SMIT: Okay.
JOHN RAMSEY: He's actually Burke's
psychiatrist.

Obviously someone recognized the need for him to see a professional, but I wonder if they figured that out on their own or were encouraged by others....perhaps PR's parents.
Yes, I would agree with this conclusion. It was PR mom (NP) that gave her the book ‘Why Johnny can’t tell right from wrong’. It was found on her bedside table after the murder. I ordered it, skimmed it; no alarm bells went off for me. Perhaps NP only knew in order to reach PR was to buy her book. She obviously was no help in the matter! This is a red flag on the play right here if I ever saw one. So is JR speaking up about BR having a psychiatrist. As for the older children being more adjusted I could not say that about JAR. He also had his own set of anger issues (just like his father and BR). There was the incidence with the guy at the airport after the murder.

It would be fascinating to know what few people who are in his orbit think of him, have observed about him.
Can we say Doug Stine. Bingo. There really must be more behind that R’s and the Stine's continued (follow the leader) friendship going on. Also, there were 3 different dna profiles found on interior left hand top portion of JB long johns. One was a male contributor.
 
Absolutely. PR seemed checked out about certain things.

While I know that PR did some charity work, and there was the time taken for the pageants and all that required, she was also a stay at home mom. One of the things that always bothered me were the reported messy and lazy issues with both her children. Dropping toys and clothes wherever they felt like it and expecting someone else to pick up after them and put things away, and most disturbing were the toilet habits of both BR and JBR of not flushing. And PR seemed to be kind of nonchalant about it when she made those admissions. It seems to be in contrast to the picture of a perfect little family portrayal and her always being perfectly turned out, one would expect that she would be embarrassed by such revelations of her children's behavior. To me, this presents a picture of a parent who doesn't really parent when it comes to certain issues. I do of course understand that she was ill for awhile, but she just comes across as not very engaged with her children unless it's something fun or pleasant to her.
What you mentioned above could indicate maternal depression. I do think PR was definitely in on (knew about) whatever was going on prior to The murder and helped to cover it up. So would make sense that PR may have been depressed between that and her cancer.
 
I tend to think it was all Patsy but I do remember seeing a video on YouTube where the parents were essentially asked if Burke did it and there reaction just seemed strange to me. They were no longer as confident looking when talking about the crime and whether there was an intruder or not. They didn't say anything damning but I never saw them look that nervous and uncomfortable in interviews before.
Which interview was that? I'd like to re-watch it.
 
Which interview was that? I'd like to re-watch it.
I haven't seen the full interview but you can find the clip I'm talking about on YouTube. It was posted by an account called The Ramsey Case and it is their only video listed under shorts. Notice how they both nod yes when asked if Burke did it and John looks really nervous.
 
I haven't seen the full interview but you can find the clip I'm talking about on YouTube. It was posted by an account called The Ramsey Case and it is their only video listed under shorts. Notice how they both nod yes when asked if Burke did it and John looks really nervous.
Also, if the Ramsey's weren't involved, they would have known for sure that Burke wasn't her killer because of the ransom note that was left. But when John is asked he comes up with many different reasons Burke wouldn't/couldn't kill Jonbenet instead of just saying "of course we never considered if Burke did it, the killer left a crazy 3 page ransom note". It's possible it was edited out but I think parents that weren't involved would point out how absurd it was to question if their son killed their daughter when a ransom note was left at the scene.
 

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