Lindy Chamberlain

[beesy]

As I highlighted in my post the estimate the Doc gave was based on all of those stabs being made at the same time (or approx the same time). The Doc emphasised that and then made it clear that it was all just an estimate. I'm less and less convinced that the 8-9 min rule does us any favours. There is no evidence that Damon was attacked whilst Darlie was on the phone. I think it highly unlikely that she could just grab the knife while she is talking to the operator and stab Damon a few more times and then carry on. Your theory is also contingent on the fact that Darin was in on the whole thing and was OK with her stabbing Damon in front of him - again something I think there is little evidence for.

Yes, I agree with you that it should'nt be seen as a hard proven fact. I said as much also. Many people disagree with the final story the DA suggested in court. I think Damon was only stabbed once, not a few times, while Darlie was on the phone. I came to that conclusion when I heard the "Damon, Damon, Damon" on the tape. In my mind there is evidence. As I said before, we all have theories. Alot of other people believe the 2-attack theory also, just not my whole theory..LOL:twocents:

Well I'm inclined to go with the qualified medical practioner who did the autposy myself.

I know you're getting really annoyed at me. I'm not trying to be bossy here, so sorry if I seem that way. Right here, you say you agree with the professional on Devon's cause of death. You are however, willing to give his statements more leeway when discussing the 8-9 mins. Damon lived after the fatal wound.
I certainly repect the Dr., but I'm just giving some leeway on this. I need to do some more research on in general if it means anything when someone dies with his eyes open. The movies and TV use it all the time because it's so freaky. LOL
Check out my post to Goody below. My problem with Devon bleeding to death while awake is wondering if Darlie would have left him alone. If somebody has their eyes open and is bleeding to death for several mins. it's obvious they are alive. Would she have been satisfied with that?

 

[beesy]

Devon was laying on his back staring at the ceiling, eyes open. I don't recall anyone talking about the expression on his face though. I think it means he was awake when he died, but not necessarily killed instantly. In fact, I think the MEs said he bled out. That would take a few minutes.

Yeah, I know he was on his back. I think he's got a freaked out look on his face and I have read it other places too. Not in the trial transcripts, but books and interviews. Of course Darin agreed on the Leeza Show that the knife went thru Devon's body and nicked the subflooring and that's not true. The ME did say Devon bled out which could take up to 5 mins. Do you think Darlie would have been satisfied with that or do you think she'd stab him until he appeared truly dead? Maybe Darin interrupted her or something? I agree that he was awake, I'm just curious as to why she trusted that he'd bleed to death especially if it took several mins. Darlie had no medical training nor did she research crime cases and post on message boards...lol...I don't know if she would have just said "oh well, he'll die." Maybe that gives us some backup for our theory that Darin saw more than he says he did? If he interrupted her and they argrued, Devon would have died during that time.
So, honestly, please think about if Darlie would have left him alive with his eyes open or if something else happened.

 

[Breehannah6]

Yet you think Darin is responsible without one shred of evidence to tie him to the murders and Darlie innocent, despite overwhelming physical evidence that screams she is guilty, because you look for the good in people. LOL


****sarcasm off****

I think if she is guilty then so is he you see it all doesnt add up but if you include him then it paints a very different version of how 2 kids can be stabbed at the same time without one running for help or something!
I seriously think if theres no intruder then they are both in on it!

 

[Dani_T]

I know you're getting really annoyed at me. I'm not trying to be bossy here, so sorry if I seem that way. Right here, you say you agree with the professional on Devon's cause of death. You are however, willing to give his statements more leeway when discussing the 8-9 mins.

That's because she (hmm why am I thinking she? Oh well let's run with it) qualifies nearly every second word in that section about the minutes with 'estimate', 'assuming', 'can't tell'. She is making educated guesses at the length of time Damon could have lived based on numerous variables. On the other hand she looked at Devon's wounds and as a medical practioner determined the cause of death which was bleeding out. Not an individual stab wound which stopped him cold. All you're basing you theory on is the fact that his eyes were open (which itself seems only to be a report from an author of a true crime book).

I'm not angry at you at all. Just slightly bemused.

Check out my post to Goody below. My problem with Devon bleeding to death while awake is wondering if Darlie would have left him alone. If somebody has their eyes open and is bleeding to death for several mins. it's obvious they are alive. Would she have been satisfied with that?

Well Damon had crawled across the floor and was still breathing when she called 911 so you tell me.

 

[bensmom98]

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All you're basing you theory on is the fact that his eyes were open (which itself seems only to be a report from an author of a true crime book).

Um, actually I believe there is a picture of Damon's deceased body and his eyes are open. I think it can be found on that website that her family made for her. Does anyone know the picture that I am referring to?

 

[Dani_T]

Um, actually I believe there is a picture of Damon's deceased body and his eyes are open. I think it can be found on that website that her family made for her. Does anyone know the picture that I am referring to?

I'm not talking about Damon having his eyes open (though I wouldn't be suprised if he did because the paramedic said he saw the light just fade out of them when he died). It was Devon we were discussing in that respect. It may be that he did die with his eyes open- but the point is that doesn't mean instantaneous death (eg. Damon didn't die quickly and his eyes were probably open), especially when you have the doctor who did the autopsy testify that he died from bleeding out and not from a sudden stab wound that stopped his heart in its tracks.

 

[beesy]

I'm not talking about Damon having his eyes open (though I wouldn't be suprised if he did because the paramedic said he saw the light just fade out of them when he died). It was Devon we were discussing in that respect. It may be that he did die with his eyes open- but the point is that doesn't mean instantaneous death (eg. Damon didn't die quickly and his eyes were probably open), especially when you have the doctor who did the autopsy testify that he died from bleeding out and not from a sudden stab wound that stopped his heart in its tracks.

I said that once. Once you quoted the transcript I asked questions. Goody said she thought Devon dying with eyes open shows he was awake. That sounds good to me. You never offered me ideas on if dying with your eyes open in general, not just Devon, meant anything. Asking is much different than telling.

 

[Goody]

Um, actually I believe there is a picture of Damon's deceased body and his eyes are open. I think it can be found on that website that her family made for her. Does anyone know the picture that I am referring to?

I think that is Devon. Damon's photo was taken with him laying on his belly; the photo is of his back where the wounds were.

Devon was laying on his back staring upward. Both boys had their eyes open, but you can't see them because of a censor strip. In Damon's case, I think his face is turned away but trial testimony pretty much agrees that his eyes were open when he died. Trial testimony also describes Devon's eyes being open and staring toward the ceiling,.

 

[Goody]

I said that once. Once you quoted the transcript I asked questions. Goody said she thought Devon dying with eyes open shows he was awake. That sounds good to me. You never offered me ideas on if dying with your eyes open in general, not just Devon, meant anything. Asking is much different than telling.

It is not likely that Devon slept thru all the stabs. That should be enough to wake anyone, no matter how soundly they sleep.

 

[Mary456]

Since the police did not check out the sewer, we will never know what other evidence might have been dumped there.

Sergeant Ward did check the sewer, Goody.

"I laid down and shined my flashlight down looking at the base and then it kind of runs off at a funny angle. I looked down the drain as far as I could and there was nothing inside the drain." (This was just a couple of hours after the murders).

Also, it's very unlikely that either Darin or Darlie would take the time to remove the manhole cover & then replace it. Those suckers are heavy & you really need some type of tool to pry them up.

 

[Goody]

Sergeant Ward did check the sewer, Goody.

"I laid down and shined my flashlight down looking at the base and then it kind of runs off at a funny angle. I looked down the drain as far as I could and there was nothing inside the drain." (This was just a couple of hours after the murders).

Also, it's very unlikely that either Darin or Darlie would take the time to remove the manhole cover & then replace it. Those suckers are heavy & you really need some type of tool to pry them up.

Well, Mary, the picture I saw shows a sewer drainage thing in the side of the curbing so why would he have to remove a manhole cover?

 

[Goody]

Sergeant Ward did check the sewer, Goody.

"I laid down and shined my flashlight down looking at the base and then it kind of runs off at a funny angle. I looked down the drain as far as I could and there was nothing inside the drain." (This was just a couple of hours after the murders).

Also, it's very unlikely that either Darin or Darlie would take the time to remove the manhole cover & then replace it. Those suckers are heavy & you really need some type of tool to pry them up.

Sgt Ward looked down the storm drain (which I have been calling the sewer) with a flashlight (still dark out) but couldn't see anything because the drain angled off. They didn't have the key to open the manhole cover and never did get it. So anything that managed to go all the way down the drain was lost to investigators If you've ever lost anything down a storm drain you know the angle is sudden and near the surface. You cannot see the sewer from the storm drain.
1 Q. Okay. Did you see any blood inside
2 the trash container?
3 A. No, sir, I did not.
4 Q. Did you find anything else inside the
5 trash container beside the grass clippings?
6 A. Just grass clippings.
7 Q. Didn't find another sock in there?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Didn't find any shoes inside the
10 garbage container?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. How about just in the area surrounding
13 the garbage container. Did you find any other socks?
14 A. No, sir, I did not.
15 Q. How about shoes?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. Just this one sock?
18 A. That is correct.
19 Q. Now, if I may, let me just step back
20 so that you and the jury can see what I'm going to point
21 at here. Does there appear to be a storm sewer drain
22 here right next to the garbage container?
23 A. Yes, sir, there is.
24 Q. Okay. Is there a manhole cover right
25 there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
1268

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Right next to it?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Now, let me ask you, Sergeant
5 Ward, did you ever have an opportunity to look inside
6 that storm sewer?
7 A. Yes, sir. We didn't have a key to it
8 at the time, but I laid down and shined my flashlight
9 down looking at the base, and then it, it kind of runs
10 off at a funny angle. It doesn't run true with the
11 alley, the drain doesn't. And I looked down the drain as
12 far as I could.
13 Q. Okay. When you looked inside the
14 drain, did you see any blood?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Did you see any other socks?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Did you see any shoes?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Did you see anything inside that drain
21 when you looked in it that morning?
22 A. No, sir, I did not.

I still think it makes more sense that they were dumping more than just one sock.. However, another interesting fact about where the sock was found is that it was behind Gary what's his face's house, and he was the fellow Darlie was telling people was the "real" killer. She had to back off of that in court when the prosecution brought him in to show that he didn't match her description of the killer at all. So maybe the sock was a plant in a lame effort to make police think he did it. No worse than the thud on Kato's wall the night Nicole and Ron were killed. Lucky for him he was on the phone instead of just watching TV alone.

 

[beesy]

I think that is Devon. Damon's photo was taken with him laying on his belly; the photo is of his back where the wounds were.

Devon was laying on his back staring upward. Both boys had their eyes open, but you can't see them because of a censor strip. In Damon's case, I think his face is turned away but trial testimony pretty much agrees that his eyes were open when he died. Trial testimony also describes Devon's eyes being open and staring toward the ceiling,.

If you maxi the pix, there are no censor strips on the website. Damon's head is turned to the side, like you said, but it looks like his eyes are closed. Of course these pix were taken at the hospital, not where Damon actually died.

 

[bensmom98]

I think that is Devon. Damon's photo was taken with him laying on his belly; the photo is of his back where the wounds were.

Devon was laying on his back staring upward. Both boys had their eyes open, but you can't see them because of a censor strip. In Damon's case, I think his face is turned away but trial testimony pretty much agrees that his eyes were open when he died. Trial testimony also describes Devon's eyes being open and staring toward the ceiling,.

Thank you Goody - I meant Devon.

 

[Dani_T]

I said that once. Once you quoted the transcript I asked questions. Goody said she thought Devon dying with eyes open shows he was awake. That sounds good to me. You never offered me ideas on if dying with your eyes open in general, not just Devon, meant anything. Asking is much different than telling.

Ok./ I've had a loooooong weekend, I admit I am not thinking very coherently at the moment- but you've lost me.

You said you though Devon died suddenly because his eyes were open.

I quoted the transcripts that shows the doc who did the autposy said cause of death was the bleeding out from the stab wounds and that he would have taken a few minutes to die.

Regardless of whether he had his eyes open or not I'm going with the doc's cause of death because she knows what she is talking about. He may or may not have been awake (though if his eyes were open then it suggest he was- just like Damon was).

I have no idea what dying with your eyes open means generally.

 

[Goody]

If you maxi the pix, there are no censor strips on the website. Damon's head is turned to the side, like you said, but it looks like his eyes are closed. Of course these pix were taken at the hospital, not where Damon actually died.

The paramedic may have closed his eyes.. We know Damon was awake until the end because of trial testimony. The paramedic said he saw the last flicker of life go out in his eyes. He didn't say he let out a breath and closed his eyes. I'd say that is enough evidence to prove his eyes were open. Plus Darlie and Waddell and Walling all said Damon's eyes were open until the paramedics were allowed in. That pretty much covers it, I would think.

 

[Goody]

Thank you Goody - I meant Devon.

No problem, Ben's Mom.

 

[accordn2me]

As you said, this is based on the 1-attack theory. I believe Damon was attacked 2x by his mother, or maybe even the 2nd time by Darin. I don't start my clock until after the fatal wound. Like you said, it's a theory. I just happen to think it's a good one. And I even think Damon was stabbed the final time while Darlie was on the phone with 911. So I'm not holding fast to the 8-9 mins, but you just used up nearly all of your time in your theory. You've got Waddel at 3:30 mins. Walling used up 3 additional mins, medics reaching Damon after about 1-2 mins. And we know Damon died after the medic(can't spell his name) got there. Maybe as long as 2 mins. later. Of course those are proven facts. So you say Damon was stabbed all 4 times before Darin came downstairs, right? And then we've got the time for Darlie to do whatever Darlie did before she called 911. That's a longer time for Damon to have lived after the attack than my 8-9 mins. which is closer to the estimate the good Dr. gives.
I know what he said, but that confuses me. I've read this too. Springer mentions how most people who die with a frozen face die instantly. If a person bleeds out for 5 mins or so, they would most likely close their eyes, right? I've heard that other places too. Maybe too much Crossing Jordan LOL It's also mentioned in Helter Skelter. Jay Sebring died with a look of terror on his face. It was said to be instantly. I don't know if that's why they said it was instantly. I just sort of assumed it was. I know Devon would have bled out if she had left him alone. That one throws me. Do they mention his eyes being open, because I do think that is a clue to cause of death, isn't it? Not method of death, but cause.

Did you know your Devon links are to ads for *advertiser censored*?

 

[Goody]

Did you know your Devon links are to ads for *advertiser censored*?

O, Beesy, it is. Did you put that in or has someone hacked into your computer? I am so computer illiterate so I don't know if that is how someone could pull a fast one on you or not, but something sure went amuck. Seems unlikely it is coincidence though unless you accidently plugged into the wrong link during a search. I bet that is what happened. You want to clean that little bugger up.

 

[beesy]

O, Beesy, it is. Did you put that in or has someone hacked into your computer? I am so computer illiterate so I don't know if that is how someone could pull a fast one on you or not, but something sure went amuck. Seems unlikely it is coincidence though unless you accidently plugged into the wrong link during a search. I bet that is what happened. You want to clean that little bugger up.

Oh dear! Oops! No, for some reason, I underlined "Devon" which created the link. Didn't mean for it to link to anything, much less icky stuff. Sorry all! :blushing: Of course, I had to check it out..lol..I'll PM the law so she can edit it...too funny