Logistics Analysis: How to get child's body into a stroller while wrangling a toddler

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oh.. the other issue.. about baby K wandering away while Mom was busy.. well.. there are baby harness/leashes... I've never used one but the do exist.. Generally used by parents of kids who a big older than Baby K b/c she would get tired walking for very long... more often used by mom 3/4 yr olds, but I guess it would work against wandering off, but a baby her age would just sit down in the dirt and start sucking on anything she might find on the floor/ground. You don't usually worry too much about a <24 month old wandering... they're not quite too fast yet for you to keep up.. its more about what they'll touch/injest/lick that keeps you on your toes.

oh and VERY RARELY... I've encountered these little fold down plastic seats in restrooms, usually in the handicapped stall on the wall .. that have seatbelts for toddlers to wait while mom is going potty. They have them at my church and at the mall... that's about it.

Still, I don't see the stroller as do-able. He's too big.
 
I think Kyron went willingly out of the building. If he were anywhere around the school (deceased, god forbid) the smell of decomp would be very evident to all of the searchers at some point. (of course Caylee laid in the woods 6 months before her little body was found).
 
wondering1 said:
My son is almost exactly the same age and size as kyron -- I haven't dreamed of putting him in a stroller for at least 3 yrs. He's too big (tall, not heavy) and it looks ridiculous. But even assuming no one would notice how odd that would be, it would also be odd for TH to carry a toddler while pushing her older brother in the stroller. And this would be in his school? -- I'm sure any student or parent who happened to see that would be like, what???? I guarantee that any classmate that would have seen it would have made it a point to stop and stare and probably point and laugh. Way more risky than just leaving first and kyron following or meeting imo -- which he easily would have done, also imo.
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I was thinking more along the lines of him in the stroller with jackets/blanket/tote covering him.

I never used a stroller, really. When I did, it was to haul all my stuff lol.

Some of the toddler strollers I've seen around lately seem like they'd be big enough for a kid Kyron's size. He wasn't that big, ya know.
 
Does Skyline School have an elevator or handicap accessibility? If not, this tactic would need to be done on the main floor as to avoid having to take the stairs. Even with a regular baby in the stroller, it would be difficult to manage getting the stroller up or down a staircase.
 
Entirely possible. It depends on the stroller.

We live an area similar to the Hormans. We have a 100-yard-long driveway, in the woods. The roads are narrow, hilly, curvy, and have no shoulder or sidewalk. It snows here. I did not want to be housebound 4 months a year. An umbrella stroller would never work in this rural area and climate.

Our stroller had all-terrain wheels. The seat was high and the basket underneath was quite large. It was not a super expensive deluxe model either. It was a Graco Navigator we got at Toys'R'Us. Well under $100. My oldest is 14, so I am sure this is more advances since I bought a single stroller. It was indestructible! A stroller like ours would have been sturdy enough and the basket has the capacity to handle a large load.

The schools here have separate bathrooms for the children and adults, both for the adults' privacy and the children's security. Adults volunteering or visiting cannot wander into the kids' bathrooms. The adult bathrooms are single-person and handicap-accessible, so they are huge. There is plenty of room in there for several strollers.

If the toddler was inside the school at the Science Fair, Terri could have asked someone (like a parent she was friendly with who had a toddler also) to watch her for while she took Kyron to the bathroom. Or if the little girl was with her in the bathroom, she would have been strapped into her seat in the stoller. Terri would only have had to turn the stroller toward the door of the bathroom, so the little girl would not see anything. A treat would keep her busy.

Terri must be very strong (bodybuilding). It would not take much for her to strangle a little boy and put him in a bag or under a blanket in the basket. And it wouldn't take long.

When she got to the truck, she would first put the toddler (if she was with her) into her car seat. Then put the bag with the boy's body into the bed of the truck and put the stroller in. If the body was just covered, she could have put the whole thing unfolded in the back of the truck. Then possibly turned the stroller on its side.

I've thought since the beginning that Kyron was concealed when he left the school on June 4th: a duffle bag, a plastic tote, trash can....
 
BeanE said:
It came out of discussion in another thread. My biggest struggle is getting Terri and Kyron out of the school. If I can think of a reasonable way she could have gotten an unconscious or deceased Kyron into a stroller with baby K running around, say in a restroom, it works for me.

Not sure what kind of link there would be. Links are for contended facts. I contended none.
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ohhh ok, lol BeanE, you threw me for a loop there a for a sec. i was waiting for a news article stating that as a possibility. i went back and checked your op twice lol i stay wayyyyyy behind. ;) i too have a problem with terri getting Kyron out of the school. i dont think she did it in the stroller, if she did at all, which i doubt at this point. i flip flop between "maybe" and "no way" and tbh the more i see, the more i think terri horman was just where she said she was that day. that said, i certainly think a woman of th's size could get a child of Kyron's size into a stroller in a matter of a min or two. she could probably even make her way out of the school while carrying the baby on her hip. i think somebody wold remember seeing her in the process. picture it, shes carrying the baby but the stroller is full of something, and imo how many blankets do you need for an 18month old on june 4? imo, jmo, mho and all that jazz :)
 
nanny2five said:
ohhh ok, lol BeanE, you threw me for a loop there a for a sec. i was waiting for a news article stating that as a possibility. i went back and checked your op twice lol i stay wayyyyyy behind. ;) i too have a problem with terri getting Kyron out of the school. i dont think she did it in the stroller, if she did at all, which i doubt at this point. i flip flop between "maybe" and "no way" and tbh the more i see, the more i think terri horman was just where she said she was that day. that said, i certainly think a woman of th's size could get a child of Kyron's size into a stroller in a matter of a min or two. she could probably even make her way out of the school while carrying the baby on her hip. i think somebody wold remember seeing her in the process. picture it, shes carrying the baby but the stroller is full of something, and imo how many blankets do you need for an 18month old on june 4? imo, jmo, mho and all that jazz :)
Click to expand...

hmmmm blanket on June 4. That would look odd, wouldn't it.
 
I could be wrong but I think the only way out of the school without steps is out the back. There is a ramp on at least one of those exits. Going out that way you would have to walk around the back of the gym to the parking lot. The gym exit onto the parking lot may just have a few stairs though.
 
She was a volunteer there. she'd know the bathrooms and closets and storage areas, perhaps other areas not likely to be in use at the very beginning of classes.

"Kyron, before you head to class, can you come in here and watch baby while I go to the bathroom?"
 
BeanE said:
Well, I would almost say if baby K were fussy, then carrying her and pushing the stroller wouldn't look so odd. However, it would be difficult to push that kind of weight in a stroller, while trying to hold on to a struggling, fussy toddler in your arms, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

Yes, it would be difficult, if not impossible, depending on the stroller, imo. An umbrella stroller, like the kind you would likely take in to a school (if you took one at all) would definitely be a challenge, even if it could be done. Those things are not made to accomodate that kind of size and weight.

But even if it were possible, and even if it wouldn't look odd to hold a fussy baby and push an empty stroller (which I've done plenty lol), it would still be VERY weird to see a second grade boy pushed around in a stroller -- especially in his own school. He wouldn't have allowed it under any normal circumstance. So anyone who saw him would have immediately thought *how strange*, imo. The only way my boy would do this is if he was obviously jerking around. And, unfortunately, in your scenario, that would not have been possible. I think most boys their age are like this. They don't do anything that's gonna make them seem babyish anyplace where their friends might see it.

I wonder if I have an old stroller in the garage. I may recruit my ds to conduct a little experiment. I expect he will be reluctant :)
 
I believe I read many times it was cool and threatening rain that morning, so blankets would not have looked out of place, IMO
 
Calliope said:
She was a volunteer there. she'd know the bathrooms and closets and storage areas, perhaps other areas not likely to be in use at the very beginning of classes.

"Kyron, before you head to class, can you come in here and watch baby while I go to the bathroom?"
Click to expand...
i bet she did know the school very well. i wish i could remember where the pics are of the truck parked on that access road bc fwir there was an embankment. it would be hard to carry a baby while pushing a stroller with a 7 yr old down an embankment. i just dont think she could get the whole mess to the truck without someone seeing her and saying "hmmmmm" jmo, imo, mho and all that jazz :)
 
Calliope said:
I was thinking more along the lines of him in the stroller with jackets/blanket/tote covering him.

I never used a stroller, really. When I did, it was to haul all my stuff lol.

Some of the toddler strollers I've seen around lately seem like they'd be big enough for a kid Kyron's size. He wasn't that big, ya know.
Click to expand...

On the size thing, based on the information and photos released, it appears that kyron weighs about the same as my ds. Ds may be slightly taller -- but not much I don't think. So unless this was a substantial stroller (not the umbrella type) it would be really hard to cover up a child that size with a blanket and not have it stand out. I think you'd have to tuck the blanket all around b/c the child's body would be completely filling not only the seat space, but some of the area outside of it/above it. And it would still be quite obvious that you were pushing a large object. Off to find an umbrella stroller and my ds :crazy:

If it was a substantial stroller, I suppose it could be conceivable. But then you still have to think of how you would get it and the child into the truck.
 
As others have pointed out, they do make strong, sturdy strollers for bigger kids to accommodate parents of special needs kids. They also make leashes for toddlers that would want to walk while mom would want to still keep a grip on them. They could certainly be used to tie a child to a door knob or something. There are also slings and the kid backpacks.

With that said, I think this type of situation would draw more attention rather than concile Kyron. Most parents of a toddler aren't going to have that type of stroller. A simple umbrella stroller would not work.

In my opinion, fwiw, I think this theory would not only be more difficult for Terri; but, I think it would only add an increased chance of being caught or drawing attention. Although, I'm sure it would be completely possible if someone were determined enough.
 
I don't think Terri had baby K in a stroller that day if she had her in the school at all. I think taking him out in a stroller would draw much more suspicion and risk of being seen than just walking him out. I bet if someone saw her and Kyron she would just have said they have a doctors appt and not carried out the "plan" that day, because I do think she had a plan OR I think she told him to meet her somewhere that day.

They do make larger 3 wheeled jogging strollers. My 5yo fits in it just fine. I would guess a small 7yo would fit fine too, but it would be a pretty hard thing to hide.

Jogging stroller: http://www.babymovers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Double-Jogging-Stroller.jpg
 
mrsu said:
I don't think Terri had baby K in a stroller that day if she had her in the school at all. I think taking him out in a stroller would draw much more suspicion and risk of being seen than just walking him out. I bet if someone saw her and Kyron she would just have said they have a doctors appt and not carried out the "plan" that day, because I do think she had a plan OR I think she told him to meet her somewhere that day.

They do make larger 3 wheeled jogging strollers. My 5yo fits in it just fine. I would guess a small 7yo would fit fine too, but it would be a pretty hard thing to hide.

Jogging stroller: http://www.babymovers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Double-Jogging-Stroller.jpg
Click to expand...

i got one of these for 10bucks at a yard sale one time to have when my little granddaughter came. it was the best stroller i ever had. it was tall enough that i didnt have to bend over to push it. it would go over curbs with no problem. the uneven ground at the park was no problem. someone might possibly pull it off using one of these, but i dont think terri did. jmo, imo, mho and all that jazz ;)

ETA i didnt know it was for jogging. i guess i missed that opportunity ;)
 
Bodhi said:
Entirely possible. It depends on the stroller.

We live an area similar to the Hormans. We have a 100-yard-long driveway, in the woods. The roads are narrow, hilly, curvy, and have no shoulder or sidewalk. It snows here. I did not want to be housebound 4 months a year. An umbrella stroller would never work in this rural area and climate.

Our stroller had all-terrain wheels. The seat was high and the basket underneath was quite large. It was not a super expensive deluxe model either. It was a Graco Navigator we got at Toys'R'Us. Well under $100. My oldest is 14, so I am sure this is more advances since I bought a single stroller. It was indestructible! A stroller like ours would have been sturdy enough and the basket has the capacity to handle a large load.

The schools here have separate bathrooms for the children and adults, both for the adults' privacy and the children's security. Adults volunteering or visiting cannot wander into the kids' bathrooms. The adult bathrooms are single-person and handicap-accessible, so they are huge. There is plenty of room in there for several strollers.

If the toddler was inside the school at the Science Fair, Terri could have asked someone (like a parent she was friendly with who had a toddler also) to watch her for while she took Kyron to the bathroom. Or if the little girl was with her in the bathroom, she would have been strapped into her seat in the stoller. Terri would only have had to turn the stroller toward the door of the bathroom, so the little girl would not see anything. A treat would keep her busy.

Terri must be very strong (bodybuilding). It would not take much for her to strangle a little boy and put him in a bag or under a blanket in the basket. And it wouldn't take long.

When she got to the truck, she would first put the toddler (if she was with her) into her car seat. Then put the bag with the boy's body into the bed of the truck and put the stroller in. If the body was just covered, she could have put the whole thing unfolded in the back of the truck. Then possibly turned the stroller on its side.

I've thought since the beginning that Kyron was concealed when he left the school on June 4th: a duffle bag, a plastic tote, trash can....
Click to expand...

While I still have the faintest suspicion that Kyron is still on the school's premises...I know, I know...they searched and it would smell...what can I say, the feeling persists....back to the stroller theory. I totally believe that could work. It is simply unbelievable that no one saw him exiting the building if he left with TH or on his own. There were so many people there. I too believe he had to have been carried out "in something"

A stroller as described above would be the perfect conveyance.
 
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