Logistics Analysis: How to get child's body into a stroller while wrangling a toddler

[Morag]

Of course, no one would think twice about seeing a parent exiting a building with a child/children.
But Terri, if she is really a murdering criminal mastermind, would have to be very concerned about being seen and recognized.
If a stranger, bushy haired or otherwise, left with a child, that person would not be concerned about being recognized, and unless the child was struggling, no one would think twice about that either. And the stranger wouldn't care if Kyron was recognized by anyone (unless someone tried to intervene, and unless there was a struggle going on, that's unlikely to happen).

 

[Chili Fries]

While I still have the faintest suspicion that Kyron is still on the school's premises...I know, I know...they searched and it would smell...what can I say, the feeling persists....back to the stroller theory. I totally believe that could work. It is simply unbelievable that no one saw him exiting the building if he left with TH or on his own. There were so many people there. I too believe he had to have been carried out "in something"

A stroller as described above would be the perfect conveyance.

I still go back to the idea that if Terri thought she was seen leaving with Kyron then she could have just aborted the mission. So if she did do something to/with him that day it probably means she didn't think anyone saw her leave with him.

 

[BeanE]

Yes, it would be difficult, if not impossible, depending on the stroller, imo. An umbrella stroller, like the kind you would likely take in to a school (if you took one at all) would definitely be a challenge, even if it could be done. Those things are not made to accomodate that kind of size and weight.

But even if it were possible, and even if it wouldn't look odd to hold a fussy baby and push an empty stroller (which I've done plenty lol), it would still be VERY weird to see a second grade boy pushed around in a stroller -- especially in his own school. He wouldn't have allowed it under any normal circumstance. So anyone who saw him would have immediately thought *how strange*, imo. The only way my boy would do this is if he was obviously jerking around. And, unfortunately, in your scenario, that would not have been possible. I think most boys their age are like this. They don't do anything that's gonna make them seem babyish anyplace where their friends might see it.

I wonder if I have an old stroller in the garage. I may recruit my ds to conduct a little experiment. I expect he will be reluctant

No, the scenario I'm exploring is definitely an unconscious or deceased child, and covered. I agree other scenarios in this vein would just stand out too much.

 

[BeanE]

I still go back to the idea that if Terri thought she was seen leaving with Kyron then she could have just aborted the mission. So if she did do something to/with him that day it probably means she didn't think anyone saw her leave with him.

And that just brings me back to my conviction that if she did this, she *made sure* nobody saw her and Kyron leave together.

My other conviction is that if she did this, when we find out how she made sure nobody saw them, I will be kicking myself for days for not thinking of it.

I can't tell you how many hours since this case began I've gazed out my window at the car outside, trying to think of how to get a child and myself out to it, without anyone seeing. It is truly driving me insane, and the answer is probably very simple.

 

[STEADFAST]

And that just brings me back to my conviction that if she did this, she *made sure* nobody saw her and Kyron leave together.

My other conviction is that if she did this, when we find out how she made sure nobody saw them, I will be kicking myself for days for not thinking of it.

I can't tell you how many hours since this case began I've gazed out my window at the car outside, trying to think of how to get a child and myself out to it, without anyone seeing. It is truly driving me insane, and the answer is probably very simple.

Probably will be. I bet it has something to do with the extreme differences in ground levels at the school and the heavy overgrowth.
Anyway, somebody got him out of there with no one seeing. If it wasn't Terri, I'm amazed whoever it was got him out of there without him ever being seen after he was seen with Terri.

 

[Sherbie]

I think in your proposed scenario, BeanE, the biggest logistical issue wouldn't be how to get a child's body into a stroller while wrangling with a toddler. IMO, it would be how to very quickly render the child unconscious or dead and how to do so without leaving any evidence, without anyone walking in during the process and without anyone noticing the unusual pile of "blankets" (or other cover) in the stroller.

I think it's much more likely Kyron went willingly with someone he knew.

 

[Chili Fries]

And that just brings me back to my conviction that if she did this, she *made sure* nobody saw her and Kyron leave together.

My other conviction is that if she did this, when we find out how she made sure nobody saw them, I will be kicking myself for days for not thinking of it.

I can't tell you how many hours since this case began I've gazed out my window at the car outside, trying to think of how to get a child and myself out to it, without anyone seeing. It is truly driving me insane, and the answer is probably very simple.

The stroller is a possibility but I think she would have taken a risk either way. Someone could have walked in on her subduing Kyron or someone could have noticed what seemed to be an oddly weighed down stroller.

Leaving out the less traveled west side of the school makes sense to me because she could have been at least partially concealed by the hillside but I've also thought she could have scooted out the east door right onto the parking lot. I think if the truck was parked on the access road then that would rule out the stroller because it would be tougher to maneuver it down the steps and across the gravel road.

 

[Morag]

Probably will be. I bet it has something to do with the extreme differences in ground levels at the school and the heavy overgrowth.
Anyway, somebody got him out of there with no one seeing. If it wasn't Terri, I'm amazed whoever it was got him out of there without him ever being seen after he was seen with Terri.

Well, he is a smallish child, he could have been wrapped in a rain coat or blanket, and carried out. If Terri was the one, she could have wrapped both kids in the same blanket and somehow managed to hold onto a big umbrella which would make the kids invisible from above and behind. Ditto anyone else, and that person would only have one wrapped kid to carry.
Do we have anyone on the board who has a toddler and a second grader and who is strong enough to test this theory? A picture would be nice.

 

[SurfieTX]

And that just brings me back to my conviction that if she did this, she *made sure* nobody saw her and Kyron leave together.

My other conviction is that if she did this, when we find out how she made sure nobody saw them, I will be kicking myself for days for not thinking of it.

I can't tell you how many hours since this case began I've gazed out my window at the car outside, trying to think of how to get a child and myself out to it, without anyone seeing. It is truly driving me insane, and the answer is probably very simple.

I'm really starting to lean toward the idea that she didn't care if someone saw her or Kyron leave independently or together. There was the doctor appt. alibi already in motion. There was the time wasting between 9-10 just to make sure they didn't call her at 10 to ask where Kyron was. If the grounds keeper JUST NOW is being interviewed, then that means that no one reported seeing him all of these months (students, teachers and parents), which means that people were not particularly observant that day. Plus, I'm starting to lean toward the idea that the plan was just to keep him away from Kaine and DY for a day or 2, but something horrible happened that wasn't planned.

 

[cypress]

I think Kyron could fit in a stroller. He's a small child. However, I have to suspend disbelief that Terri was rolling him through the school, covered by blankets, and no one noticed anything was off, as he's not that small. He's not baby K small. He is a small child, but he is an average looking seven year old, just on the smaller end, IMHO. But, let's suspend disbelief. Where and when did she incapacitate him? She would've had to have incapacitated him. If this was her grand plan, and going to school was her establishing an alibi, I don't think she'd risk Kyron peeking out from behind the pile of blankets she'd used to cover him up. Even if I suspend disbelief that she managed to get him outside in a stroller, lifting 50 pounds of dead weight, whether he was unconscious or deceased, would be noticeable. Terri may be strong, but 50 pounds of dead weight is heavy.

 

[wenwe4]

I just had an interesting thought . . . .
how did TH and Kyron transport the science project to school? In a big rubber container with a lid? IIRC when transporting my daughter's science project we used the rolling carts available @ the school to transport big items in and out of the building. Now that I am thinking of it, No 7 yr old boy that I know would willingly get into a "baby stroller" at school where they might be seen by friends unless they thought it was "funny" but not "embarrassing". I am thinking it would be less suspicious to transport Kyron out in front of everyone (ie: loading and unloading a what looks to be a science project). Maybe he was "strolled out" on a rolling cart.

 

[cypress]

I just had an interesting thought . . . .
how did TH and Kyron transport the science project to school? In a big rubber container with a lid? IIRC when transporting my daughter's science project we used the rolling carts available @ the school to transport big items in and out of the building. Now that I am thinking of it, No 7 yr old boy that I know would willingly get into a "baby stroller" at school where they might be seen by friends unless they thought it was "funny" but not "embarrassing". I am thinking it would be less suspicious to transport Kyron out in front of everyone (ie: loading and unloading a what looks to be a science project). Maybe he was "strolled out" on a rolling cart.

I've wondered if some science projects required containers. IIRC, though, Kyron's project was set up the previous day.

 

[STEADFAST]

It could be that nobody got him out of the school without being seen with him. Once he was out, lots of cover around there.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If Kyron was with his step-mother and possibly headed to a doctor's appointment, why the need for a surrepticious exit from the building?

 

[Really]

Terri has Kryon 'hide' under a blankets part of a game on the way to Dr....baby K walks beside. Anthing else is done later...Some strollers have no problem holding 50 lbs....

 

[Kat010]

I have a problem with that also. I just don't think she could have managed it.

That's why I think someone else did it--someone inside or right outside the school--but I think it is someone who she knew. I think they put him in a trash barrel or temporarily in a closet or something.

If a container was used by someone other than TH, I'm still suspicious, as I have been all along, about big rolling trash cans.

Bean, I'm a klutz. But it seems as though all that maneuvering would be hard. Especially in a crowd. But I'm thinkin' on it. Klutzily.

 

[bessie]

If Kyron was with his step-mother and possibly headed to a doctor's appointment, why the need for a surrepticious exit from the building?

There was no doctor's appointment according to Terri. The doctor's appointment was an excuse to keep the teacher from becoming suspicious when he didn't show up in class after the SPE, which she could later refute by saying the teacher misunderstood her. If she walked out the school with Kyron she ran a terrible risk of an eyewitness seeing them leave together.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

There was no doctor's appointment according to Terri. The doctor's appointment was an excuse to keep the teacher from becoming suspicious when he didn't show up in class after the SPE, which she could later refute by saying the teacher misunderstood her. If she walked out the school with Kyron she ran a terrible risk of an eyewitness seeing them leave together.

I realize that we've learned that now, but at least one teacher and perhaps some students thought that Kyron had a doctor's appointment that day. I was basing my comment on what was known on June 4. If it was believed that Kyron was going to the doctor with his step-mom, there would be no reason to conceal his departure from the school. jmo

 

[wenwe4]

There was no doctor's appointment according to Terri. The doctor's appointment was an excuse to keep the teacher from becoming suspicious when he didn't show up in class after the SPE, which she could later refute by saying the teacher misunderstood her. If she walked out the school with Kyron she ran a terrible risk of an eyewitness seeing them leave together.

Kaine could easily sign an authorization to obtain medical records from the Dr or Pediatrician of Kyron (and baby K) to support or dispute the Dr. appt story. Had Kaine heard about her concerns for Kyron "spacing off" or was that just in an email to a friend?

 

[bessie]

A trick that has worked for me with toddlers in similar situations -- not moving bodies, but other activities which require both hands -- is to engage the toddler in the activity. She might've said Kyron was sick and she needed the little one's help to get him in the stroller. A 2+ year-old would be aware enough to be curious about what was happening to her brother, and probably concerned enough to want to help.

If the stroller was large enough and he fit well, a blanket, a tote bag, would've concealed him without looking suspicious for the few minutes it would take to exit, especially if seen from a distance. Even for a strong woman, carrying K on one hip while steering the basket straight with one hand would've been difficult, I'd think. Not impossible, though. Some strollers have rear baskets. Could K have stood or crouched in there while Terri pushed?