GUILTY MA - Darlene Haynes, 23, slain, fetus cut from womb, Worcester, 23 July 2009

[E-U-R]

My theory is that it will be a woman she knew. A woman who was having problems with her BF or spouse. They are either arguing a lot or breaking up. The woman will have been saying she is "pregnant." But those close to her may have questions about whether she is pregnant or not. Most likely she isn't part of the mother's crowd, but is somewhere on the periphal edge. Like rode the bus with her or spoke to her at the laundrymat. She may have been helpful to the mother in the past. Offered clothing or groceries or something. So not close, but close enough that the mother would have let her into her apartment.

The woman also has some mental health problems. May or may not have other children. The key is that the woman believes she needs to have the baby in order to save her relationship.

The woman justifies to herself that the woman wasn't a good mother. That she could be a better mother to the baby, and that anyway the baby will solve her problems.

The baby daddy gives me pause, but he would have a hard time hiding the baby if it was him. I mean how would he explain just showing up with a newborn, shortly after his baby momma died?

I'm guessing if it were the baby daddy then it was not because he actually wanted the baby... if he did he would have no problem getting custody of it when it was born in less then a month... the courts up here are so pro dad its ridiculous... plus if he were married that would be an added bonus....
i want to know if there were 2 dna's on the blanket if you can cut a baby out without even nicking the baby ten i would assume some sort of med experience (nurse in another country)... also i want to know if they found merconium evidence on the blanket... if the baby went to the bathroom then it was alive at birth.... they need to check all the ponds in the webster square area my guess would be if this was a local hoodlum then they wouldn't have gone far to get rid of the baby...
I feel bad saying it now but me and my friends have an inside joke about this area of the city that there is something in te water because everyone from there looks like mice... literally... i'm not even kidding you could dress someone up in a $5000 outfit and i would be able to tell you if they are from the webster square area just by looking at their face... it's kind of uncanny how tey all look like they have something wrong with them and i don't mean just drugs... this is the poorest neighborhood of the city and if this was a local they prob wouldn't have gone far to ditch the baby and if they did have a friend with a car thhey would have had to give them gas money to go anywhere...

 

[TxBecca]

where did you hear that? is that inside info? I noticed you are from Mass.. do you know the victim or anyone in this case? don't mean to sound assertive towards you but I have not read that anywhere and by your other comments you are not fond of her lifestyle (nor am I) but your post insinuates that she was drinking while pregnant... is that something that you KNOW or just want people to assume?
I actually live in that city and trust me there is trash by the truckload all over that area but unless you actually read that somewhere I wonder why you would say that... there are no reports of her abusing drugs or alcohol only of her mental disabilities... less fortunate definitely but not necessarily your typical local trash... I guess what I am saying is please don't turn a not all there in the head person into a white trash drunk unless you know that for a fact... and if you do know that and read it somewhere then my apologies in advance as I have not yet read that anywhere...

I know you were not questioning me, but I thought I'd share.

*snipped*
A friend of Haynes told CNN affiliate WHDH that she had received a text message from Haynes at 11:20 p.m. Thursday that said she was having wine coolers with a friend at her apartment. That was the last she heard from her.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/29/massachusetts.fetus/index.html

 

[Kat]

The reference to the wine coolers was made in a CNN article to which the link is located in post #2 of this thread.

Where and how was the inference of "turning an not all there in the head person into a white trash drunk " made? I did not see it implied within this thread? Thanks in advance.

 

[southcitymom]

My theory is that it will be a woman she knew. A woman who was having problems with her BF or spouse. They are either arguing a lot or breaking up. The woman will have been saying she is "pregnant." But those close to her may have questions about whether she is pregnant or not. Most likely she isn't part of the mother's crowd, but is somewhere on the periphal edge. Like rode the bus with her or spoke to her at the laundrymat. She may have been helpful to the mother in the past. Offered clothing or groceries or something. So not close, but close enough that the mother would have let her into her apartment.

The woman also has some mental health problems. May or may not have other children. The key is that the woman believes she needs to have the baby in order to save her relationship.

The woman justifies to herself that the woman wasn't a good mother. That she could be a better mother to the baby, and that anyway the baby will solve her problems.

The baby daddy gives me pause, but he would have a hard time hiding the baby if it was him. I mean how would he explain just showing up with a newborn, shortly after his baby momma died?

Great profile - I think you are right on the money!

 

[SuziQ]

Eur, if you read back a few posts, the wine cooler comment is explaine. No one is trashing mom. But there is a question about why she was drinking when she was pregnant.

 

[E-U-R]

where did you hear that? is that inside info? I noticed you are from Mass.. do you know the victim or anyone in this case? don't mean to sound assertive towards you but I have not read that anywhere and by your other comments you are not fond of her lifestyle (nor am I) but your post insinuates that she was drinking while pregnant... is that something that you KNOW or just want people to assume?
I actually live in that city and trust me there is trash by the truckload all over that area but unless you actually read that somewhere I wonder why you would say that... there are no reports of her abusing drugs or alcohol only of her mental disabilities... less fortunate definitely but not necessarily your typical local trash... I guess what I am saying is please don't turn a not all there in the head person into a white trash drunk unless you know that for a fact... and if you do know that and read it somewhere then my apologies in advance as I have not yet read that anywhere...

quoting my own for apologies to seem jumpy about the wine cooler thing... it does not say that darlene was partaking in the drinking but here is the link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...egnant-woman-murdered-foetus-ripped-womb.html

 

[WhyaDuck?]

My theory is that it will be a woman she knew. A woman who was having problems with her BF or spouse. They are either arguing a lot or breaking up. The woman will have been saying she is "pregnant." But those close to her may have questions about whether she is pregnant or not. Most likely she isn't part of the mother's crowd, but is somewhere on the periphal edge. Like rode the bus with her or spoke to her at the laundrymat. She may have been helpful to the mother in the past. Offered clothing or groceries or something. So not close, but close enough that the mother would have let her into her apartment.

The woman also has some mental health problems. May or may not have other children. The key is that the woman believes she needs to have the baby in order to save her relationship.

The woman justifies to herself that the woman wasn't a good mother. That she could be a better mother to the baby, and that anyway the baby will solve her problems.

The baby daddy gives me pause, but he would have a hard time hiding the baby if it was him. I mean how would he explain just showing up with a newborn, shortly after his baby momma died?

All of this is very possible, given the profiles of some other people found guilty of snatching newborns or late term fetuses.

 

[E-U-R]

I know you were not questioning me, but I thought I'd share.

so now i want to know if the police found the phone... did she really send that text... usually if you ae pregnant trashy or not you don't go bragging about drinking via texts... seems weird to me

 

[Bee Happy]

I've read several articles and don't see any mention of the friend and the wine coolers? The boston herald has a good article. Steve Huff at the true crime report has a post up with a link to mom's myspace. I can't post links from my bberry and my pc is broken.

You should be able to copy and paste links very easily. I do it all the time from my BB.

I too was wondering about the wine cooler thing when I read this on CNN. Some people are raised differently though I suppose. I am of the mindset that you should not drink, smoke, do drugs or anything that could potentially damage the baby. Really, what is 9 months without thosse things if your pregnant and maybe a couple more if you decide to breast feed...

I wouldn't give a newborn a drink, so I surely wouldn't drink while pregnant. But that's JMO.

 

[Annie]

My theory is that it will be a woman she knew. A woman who was having problems with her BF or spouse. They are either arguing a lot or breaking up. The woman will have been saying she is "pregnant." But those close to her may have questions about whether she is pregnant or not. Most likely she isn't part of the mother's crowd, but is somewhere on the periphal edge. Like rode the bus with her or spoke to her at the laundrymat. She may have been helpful to the mother in the past. Offered clothing or groceries or something. So not close, but close enough that the mother would have let her into her apartment.

The woman also has some mental health problems. May or may not have other children. The key is that the woman believes she needs to have the baby in order to save her relationship.

The woman justifies to herself that the woman wasn't a good mother. That she could be a better mother to the baby, and that anyway the baby will solve her problems.

The baby daddy gives me pause, but he would have a hard time hiding the baby if it was him. I mean how would he explain just showing up with a newborn, shortly after his baby momma died?

It may not be someone she knows. The first story I ever remember reading about where a baby was ripped from a pregnant woman, the woman waited outside a doctor's office and kidnapped a pregnant woman and cut her open with a key. That was a long time ago. But only a few years ago a woman made contact with a pregnant woman through an interest in dogs and went to another state to kill her and take her baby. If the baby's father is involved it could be a case of him wanting the baby and it may be hidden out somewhere with a friend or family member. It may not have even lived after being ripped from its mom a month early under horrible circumstances. He or his girlfriend could have just wanted to get rid of the baby and any future support payments and wanted people to think someone had killed her to get the baby. I just hope they find the baby alive.

 

[E-U-R]

here's a map of the area
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Worcester+&state=MA&address=94+Southgate+Street

 

[amandab]

“No way had I thought she was murdered in the bedroom,” Mr. Thompson said. “There was no blood. It was weird - the blanket was wrapped much too tight.”

Bathtub?

 

[E-U-R]

city trash is picked up on that street every wed morning.... and since we are pinning her time of death right now based on a text that she may or may not have sent, her friend claims she was so lonely she would have let anyone in just to hang out so how long would she have been "missing" before her "friends" noticed? since that statement right there coupled with the fact that even tho her family thought something was wrong when she didn't show up somewhere in prior days yet was still not reported missing says to me that no one really missed tis girl at all... and on the word of a landlord who in one case says he thinks she brought the baby to the boyfriend thursday morning (but does not say he actually saw her... that could be based on afterward knowledge that the dad takes the kid on thurs) and claims that he went there and just assumed it was a trash smell since he had an ongoing trash problem with darlene... who knows how long she was dead and how long he ignored complaints of a smell from neighbors... we had our only heat wave here this past weekend and wrapped in a comforter (not just a blanket) and put in a closet in a house with probably no ac... i'm willing to bet that the ME will not have too accurate of a time of death... even if they (sorry I'm saying this) find maggots who knows how long it took for them to get there as by all other reports her house was already filled with trash and there was probably several generations of flies in the place...
in a nutshell i hope wpd doesn't slack on the manpower or funds to actually check the dump despite trash day

 

[E-U-R]

Bathtub?

baby removed somewhere else?
and why put her in a closet... if the police were searching they would definitely check the closet were they expecting someone to stop in and wanted to hide her from the naked eye temporarily... wy not just leave her on the floor?
hope they took the drains into evidence... there was also the statement in the same article by the landlord that the walls are thin... is he maybe just trying to cover up neglect of other tenants complaints? was there a blood stain leaking thru to the floor below that he ignored?
if there really was not much blood then why not was her skull fractured without it breaking the skin? if not head wounds bleed the most so where was all the blood then? whatever they used to cut her open must have been really bloody too... did they leave the instrument there? if they took it with them they prob washed it off first... did they check the faucet for prints?

 

[mysteriew]

It may not be someone she knows. The first story I ever remember reading about where a baby was ripped from a pregnant woman, the woman waited outside a doctor's office and kidnapped a pregnant woman and cut her open with a key. That was a long time ago. But only a few years ago a woman made contact with a pregnant woman through an interest in dogs and went to another state to kill her and take her baby. If the baby's father is involved it could be a case of him wanting the baby and it may be hidden out somewhere with a friend or family member. It may not have even lived after being ripped from its mom a month early under horrible circumstances. He or his girlfriend could have just wanted to get rid of the baby and any future support payments and wanted people to think someone had killed her to get the baby. I just hope they find the baby alive.

There is also the case of the woman who got the woman's name from her want list on baby items on a website on the internet. It is entirely possible of course. But I just don't get that feeling in this case. Talking to her at the Dr.'s office would be a part of her routine.

 

[impatientredhead]

Bathtub?

Or someone had a lot of time for prep and/or clean up.
You know someone with access to the apartment.
Someone who would not be out of place there.
Someone who could take bags of trash to the dumpster and go unnoticed.
Someone who could not carry the body down by himself.

There is no way to preform an amateur C section in an apartment and not leave blood all over.

 

[E-U-R]

word to the wise for the non locals... if you want accurate info you should read the telegram and gazette articles.. i just spent a long tim ereading the oter places and it seems the telephone distortions are already starting... trust me this is a worcester reporters dream rigt now and they will go above and beyond to get the story... only downside is if you want to keep accurate tabs then do a copy and paste on every article as i wish i did... T&G does not archive evrything and if there is a conflicted update they delete the original and keep the new story... the original 7/28 story was much more graphic and it says in it that they originally could not identify the gender of the body because it was so severely decomposed and that the blanket could not even be removed from the body for the same reason... it also said that wen the landlord went in the apartment he saw a leg hanging out of the closet... yet now it says that he assumed it was trash in the blanket... things are going to change and it will be important to keep tabs on all local news about this so i just wanted you guys to be aware that t&g is good for not keeping all their articles... save them all while you can

 

[E-U-R]

and she was in a closet not a cupboard which to me means a cabinet... also a comforter is a very heavy winter blanket not a coverlette or anything light weight... lol our new england terms might get distorted in translation

 

[mysteriew]

baby removed somewhere else?
and why put her in a closet... if the police were searching they would definitely check the closet were they expecting someone to stop in and wanted to hide her from the naked eye temporarily... wy not just leave her on the floor?
hope they took the drains into evidence... there was also the statement in the same article by the landlord that the walls are thin... is he maybe just trying to cover up neglect of other tenants complaints? was there a blood stain leaking thru to the floor below that he ignored?
if there really was not much blood then why not was her skull fractured without it breaking the skin? if not head wounds bleed the most so where was all the blood then? whatever they used to cut her open must have been really bloody too... did they leave the instrument there? if they took it with them they prob washed it off first... did they check the faucet for prints?

You are talking a woman. Cutting the mother open and removing the baby would mean blood. A mess. A woman is more likely to do it in the bathtub, even though it isn't her home. To make less of a mess.

Wrapping the body there are two theories. Either a type of remorse, to hide the crime or to dehumanize the remains. Probably a combination of both.

LE would have gone over that home looking for prints, for possible weapons and instuments that could have been used in the crime. But they won't show up in the media. That is the type of thing that LE usually won't discuss until they have a suspect or even until trial.

 

[E-U-R]

Or someone had a lot of time for prep and/or clean up.
You know someone with access to the apartment.
Someone who would not be out of place there.
Someone who could take bags of trash to the dumpster and go unnoticed.
Someone who could not carry the body down by himself.

There is no way to preform an amateur C section in an apartment and not leave blood all over.

right by even still why leave her in the closet unless you are worried about someone else with access to the apartment coming in?... in worcester housing court is a b if this lannlord was in the process of evicting her as the articles say... and he is a low income landlord then he knows that you cannot enter an apartment unless it is an emergency (like leak/fire) and up here she actually could have won a case against him just for doing so... so my question is why would he risk that just over an odor... landlords like this are landlords for the money and only the money... doesn't make sense knowing the local customs/court system/ trends in the court system... and if her own family didn't report her missing wy would he go in out of concern... unless he hadn't seen her in a long time and thought she just abandoned the apartment... i just don't get it