Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 12

[Salem]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

Two things catch my eye after a very quick first reading:

That morning, Ed went on television and asked the kidnapper to return his daughter.[25] A massive search for Elizabeth began.[26]

and the 2nd thing was that 5 days later - Ed Smart took a polygraph. Apparently he passed. The point is that within 5 days - he took that test.

Show me where the McCanns have ever asked for the return of their daughter or have ever stated a message directly to her.......

Kate always says... "Madeleine, she knows I (we) love her"

My :twocents:

Salem

 

[CaliKid]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

Unfortunately, I closely followed this case as well, but one thing I do remember was the joy I felt when a friend told me that Elizabeth had been found alive.

I have to agree about the Smart family opening up their lives to investigation. Even though they had some disagreements with the SLC police department, they always took the high road. There was a vicious rumor going around early on that the father or uncles might have given Elizabeth to a relative in a polygamous, incestuous "marriage". Very soon after, every adult male in her family submitted themselves to polygraphs and passed.

 

[Shazza]

I noticed how quick the parents were to start finding their daughter, even though they were told about it 2 hours or so later by their other daughter, which makes me think if there were no drugs involved with the McCanns then maybe the twins saw or heard something, but would probably not remember anything now.

 

[SieSie]

I posted a question in Part 11 asking about the dna results on the blood and the thread got closed before I could thank you all for letting me know that it hasn't been released yet. It's so hard to keep up with all of this, I can't believe we're on part 12. Prayers for Madeleine.

 

[april4sky]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

My impession. When we don't know the true facts it can lead to a rush to judjement. As Ed Smart and Mr Ricci found out.

 

[docwho3]

. . .and the 2nd thing was that 5 days later - Ed Smart took a polygraph. Apparently he passed. The point is that within 5 days - he took that test.

Show me where the McCanns have ever asked for the return of their daughter or have ever stated a message directly to her . . .

We should keep in mind that both cases were not in the same country. One was in a country that uses lie detector tests in investigation and the other case happened in a country that evidently does not use that investigative tool. It is almost like comparing apples to rocks, not really the same thing.

If I was in a country that did not normally use that tool I would certainly not ask them to use it on me because I would doubt their ability to use it properly due to lack of practice and I would not waste valuable time and money trying to fly in my own expert because no one would believe my own expert was telling anything other than what I paid him to say.

 

[Texana]

He is from Glasgow and even British people find the Glasgow accent hard to understand. He doesn't have a very marked one as you can understand what he is saying, but the manner of Glasgow people is quite tough and abrasive - although Glasgow people are individually very nice - It is considered a 'hard' place.

Thank you for that information! I kept thinking that Gerry sounded Scottish but as no one else mentioned it...I thought what did I know. I have heard that about Glaswegians from reading Ian Rankin novels but you never know if those are stereotypes or more truthful in general. I wanted to ask about Gerry's background and the accent I heard, but couldn't figure out how to say it appropriately.

The problem is that Gerry's attitude and the responses of the other dinner party attendees make it harder to figure out the true timeline (unless of course, they are talking quite differently now to British and Portugese LE, which is entirely possible.) The tapas bar staff noticed only that Russell O'Brien was absent from the table, but Gerry's absence was corroborated by Jeremy Wilkins. The windows of time are all contradicted.

The time line is the only thing that could back up the cadaver dogs' actions (if true) or refute them. I've read where there could be as much as a 10% margin of error with the dogs, and the possibility of the handler's actions affecting the dogs' actions as well. Unlike a perfectly performed DNA lab test, the dogs' reactions are more subject to human actions and possible error.

If the cadaver dogs were accurate, then the time frame for any action that would end in resolution would be much more stringent. That might explain the conflict--if true--between Gerry and the relatives administering the funds from the donations.

 

[Trino]

Personally, I would like to hear more from the other persons at the dinner party. If I were one of them, I would be beside myself, trying to think, rethink the situation and trying to help as much as possible. I just don't see this reaction from them.

 

[mrsmousemat]

Thank you for that information! I kept thinking that Gerry sounded Scottish but as no one else mentioned it...I thought what did I know. I have heard that about Glaswegians from reading Ian Rankin novels but you never know if those are stereotypes or more truthful in general. I wanted to ask about Gerry's background and the accent I heard, but couldn't figure out how to say it appropriately.

The problem is that Gerry's attitude and the responses of the other dinner party attendees make it harder to figure out the true timeline (unless of course, they are talking quite differently now to British and Portugese LE, which is entirely possible.) The tapas bar staff noticed only that Russell O'Brien was absent from the table, but Gerry's absence was corroborated by Jeremy Wilkins. The windows of time are all contradicted.

The time line is the only thing that could back up the cadaver dogs' actions (if true) or refute them. I've read where there could be as much as a 10% margin of error with the dogs, and the possibility of the handler's actions affecting the dogs' actions as well. Unlike a perfectly performed DNA lab test, the dogs' reactions are more subject to human actions and possible error.

If the cadaver dogs were accurate, then the time frame for any action that would end in resolution would be much more stringent. That might explain the conflict--if true--between Gerry and the relatives administering the funds from the donations.

The problem is that we still have no authoritive statement on what dog did what, where and when.

With the timing, it is possible that one sniffed out the traces of blood in the bedroom but that is about all we can guess - until we get a statement from either the PD or the British police.

All the timings are likely to have been minutes out either way - as, if you notice - they are usually given 5 past, or ten past etc or exactly x o'clock. It is never 23 minutes past the hour for example.

This means that the probability is that they were the approximate guesses of people on holiday - who weren't really paying much attention to the clock.

My opinion is that, logically, if the McCanns had of been responsible for the death of Madeleine , the best course of action would have been to shut up from the first, say as little as possible, let the Portuguese police come and take their statement and do their 'search' and go home swiftly afterwards.

However, the logicical answer isn't always the right one.

 

[mrsmousemat]

Personally, I would like to hear more from the other persons at the dinner party. If I were one of them, I would be beside myself, trying to think, rethink the situation and trying to help as much as possible. I just don't see this reaction from them.

They can't say anything as it is against the law in Portugal to make public pronoucements on the case, while the police are investigating it. It would be interesting to know if public statements can be made after any court trial.

The so-called 'Pact of Silence' amongst the party is due to the fact that the press will have tried to get them to contradict one another to make a story, as conflict makes the best reading, even when it doesn't exist.

They can't say anything anyway - and they know that if they did, a lot of what they said would be mis-interpreted, having been aware of what was already printed. Thus the 'pact'.

 

[docwho3]

Personally, I would like to hear more from the other persons at the dinner party. If I were one of them, I would be beside myself, trying to think, rethink the situation and trying to help as much as possible. I just don't see this reaction from them.

Hopefully someday we will be able to hear from the friends. I too would like to hear more from them when it is possible.

 

[colomom]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/17503/Maddy-New-setback-over-DNA-evidence

MADDY: NEW SETBACK OVER DNA EVIDENCE

 

[Shazza]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/17503/Maddy-New-setback-over-DNA-evidence

This is a snippet for the above link.
“The police have said they are not suspects but the attitude towards them has altered.”

they being the McCanns.



MADDY: NEW SETBACK OVER DNA EVIDENCE

Looks like we have to wait a little longer, at least they are being thorough, I just hope we have some answers when the DNA results are released.

Somehow part of my quote got into colomoms quote. Sorry guys, hope it doesnt confuse anyone.

 

[april4sky]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/17503/Maddy-New-setback-over-DNA-evidence

MADDY: NEW SETBACK OVER DNA EVIDENCE

Interesting.
But as usual there was not one "Name" in the whole article.

It was either. An expert at the Science Service "said" .
Or a family "Friend" said.
And of course their very favourite word "Source"

Hopefully they are just trying to be sensational...No surprise there as thats what sells papers.

Either way I will wait until we're told "officially"

 

[Shazza]

Interesting.
But as usual there was not one "Name" in the whole article.

It was either. An expert at the Science Service "said" .
Or a family "Friend" said.
And of course their very favourite word "Source"

Hopefully they are just trying to be sensational...No surprise there as thats what sells papers.

Either way I will wait until we're told "officially"

I agree April, that is all we can do now, play the waiting game.

 

[april4sky]

I agree April, that is all we can do now, play the waiting game.

Hi Shazza. This waiting is so frustrating isn't it.
The longer it goes on too the less trust I have in the press.....Not that I had a lot before this case.
They are always under pressure so they won't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Sorry, I do sound cynical don't I.

Patience is a virtue, so i'm told. But it's not something i'm good at.

 

[CaliKid]

I agree about the sensationalism. "Bitter attacks", "variety of slurs", etc. Now they're even getting more personal and using the marriage-coming-apart-at-the-seams pathos. The McCanns' falling apart wouldn't be surprising under the circumstances. I've seen marriages come undone over a lot less than a missing child.

 

[CaliKid]

Colomom, what conclusions did you come up with from the Smart kidnapping?

 

[colomom]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

 

[Salem]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

Okay - I say WOW:clap:

It's about time.... so what does everyone think is going on here? Is this because Gerry lost his cool? The papers are being too nasty? I am surprised and actually, gladdened, by this heartfelt plea.

Salem