Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 20

[gord]

who knows what is going on -

The only thing is that in the 21st century police forces across the world are well geared to cooperate withe each other - arrest suspects - etc it is not exactly rocket science - I cannot believe that the UK goverement at Home Office / Home sec level are obstructing this case - they have got enough to do without getting embroiled in a messy murder case where they would get burned for no gain.

Why dont the PJ just charge them - they have the evidence we are led to believe - get them over and then either go to the next stage or let them go .

If they were formally charged then there would be no argument - it happens all the time

I just cant see why the PJ seem to be delaying things. It is their case they are in charge - forget all this powerfull friends - Just charge them and get them back -

 

[colomom]

who knows what is going on -

The only thing is that in the 21st century police forces across the world are well geared to cooperate withe each other - arrest suspects - etc it is not exactly rocket science - I cannot believe that the UK goverement at Home Office / Home sec level are obstructing this case - they have got enough to do without getting embroiled in a messy murder case where they would get burned for no gain.

Why dont the PJ just charge them - they have the evidence we are led to believe - get them over and then either go to the next stage or let them go .

If they were formally charged then there would be no argument - it happens all the time

I just cant see why the PJ seem to be delaying things. It is their case they are in charge - forget all this powerfull friends - Just charge them and get them back -

Gord,

Please tell us about exactly what is involved if the PJ want to charge the McCanns. How do they proceed? What is the first step? How do they make an arrest?

Thanks, in advance.

 

[gord]

Gord,

Please tell us about exactly what is involved if the PJ want to charge the McCanns. How do they proceed? What is the first step? How do they make an arrest?

Thanks, in advance.

They present their evidence to our police ( which we are led to believe is pretty sound ) , who in turn would then arrest the Mccaans on behalf of the PJ - then the there is a 48 hour period where the case would be looked at by the prosecution authorities ( the equivelant of your DA ) if the case seems sound then it would proceed . A judge would probably give bail and because it is across borders extradition papers would have to be issued and then it would take a while - . But this is the European Community - not two nations with no ties . The process has been tried and tested many times

now in saying all that my feel is that the PJ dont have anything concrete - ie they have no hard evidence apart from what they think and the whole inconsistency in the statements . - even though I would have thought they would have enough to at least issue charges to start getting things done -

I have seen cases where suspects in assalt cases get at least arrested over seas by other police forces . LA agencies tend to cooperate with each other - if the PJ contacted the Local police in Leicester and said we have firm reason to believe that these people have comitted murder - then they would be aressted in days

It will be a year in 3 months time

 

[ThoughtFox]

Another case of believing that which we chose to believe....

in 24Horas this morning:

http://24horasnewspaper.com/total.php?numero=2754&link=10

Rogatory letter was in England but was returned to the State Attorney
English tantrum delays process

The letter that was destinated to interrogate the McCanns and their friends returned because of simple bureaucratic problems. The PJ was unaware of this whole story

A veritable 'tantrum' from the English is delaying the conclusion of the investigations into the Madeleine case. The English have already held the letter that contains the questions that the PJ wants to be asked from the McCann family and their friends - sent by Eurojust, the European entity that is competent to establish the judicial connection between various countries - but their understanding was that some bureaucratic formalities were not being observed. And they requested a new letter.

[continues, see full article in Portuguese Press thread]

Thanks for the article, colomom!

So there seems to be confusion, but possibly stonewalling on the part of the British government. Why does this not surprise me?

 

[Barnaby]

So hard to know who to believe in article below:

Madeleine: Investigation a 'fiasco' as bungling Portuguese police fail to send crucial documents to British authorities
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


"Then in a humiliating public climbdown, the Attorney General's office in Lisbon was forced to admit that it had not yet sent them to Whitehall"

 

[Gatinho]

So hard to know who to believe in article below:

Madeleine: Investigation a 'fiasco' as bungling Portuguese police fail to send crucial documents to British authorities
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


"Then in a humiliating public climbdown, the Attorney General's office in Lisbon was forced to admit that it had not yet sent them to Whitehall"

Barnaby - many people have believed the Daily Mail and lived to regret it .

 

[Barnaby]

Barnaby - many people have believed the Daily Mail and lived to regret it .

True

 

[ThoughtFox]

A local reservoir is being searched, and a possible link to a missing Spanish boy.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...ssing-boy-to-madeleine-mccann-86908-20309039/

Jeremy Vargas vanished from his home in Gran Canaria just eight weeks before four-year-old Madeleine went missing in Praia da Luz.

Detectives hunting for the boy have told his parents they are now working closely with cops in Portugal.

. . . Yesterday, divers continued to search a reservoir for Madeleine's body following a tip-off from an underworld source to a lawyer. The search at Barragem do Arade - 40 miles from Praia da Luz - is being funded by Marcos Correia, who claims he was told she was murdered and thrown into a lake last May.

Correia, who would not reveal his source, said: "I am convinced this is the place."

Also, this - take it for what it's worth. I believe some of these reservoirs have already been searched:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...-dumped-in-lake-claims-lawyer-89520-20282279/

 

[ThoughtFox]

OK, here's more: this "lawyer" from Madeira was financing a "search" of his own in the reservoir, and it makes sense that the police would also send searchers, since this could be someone actually planting the body there for all they know.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...te+reservoir+after+underworld+tip-off/article

...He said he believed the abductor killed the child, weighted down her body and then threw it from a pumping tower into the murky water beneath.

His team of six divers have already found a five-metre length of knotted nylon cord, which has been handed in to Portuguese police for analysis.

The remote reservoir is surrounded by dense woodland but a dirt track cuts through it to a bridge which links the water tower to the shore.

My problem with this is that by their own admission, the McCanns drove around further than 40 miles in the countryside, so even if they find her, the parents are not exonerated.

 

[gord]

OK, here's more: this "lawyer" from Madeira was financing a "search" of his own in the reservoir, and it makes sense that the police would also send searchers, since this could be someone actually planting the body there for all they know.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23435621-details/Divers+search+for+Madeleine%27s+body+in+remote+reservoir+after+underworld+tip-off/article



My problem with this is that by their own admission, the McCanns drove around further than 40 miles in the countryside, so even if they find her, the parents are not exonerated.

I would wait until they find something before we jump the gun and go all out with who did it theories

It is very sad but the search brings the reality that whatever and whoever happened to Maddy - she is most likely dead .

I have read that in most child abductions the child is usualy killed with 24 to 48 hours and then the body disposed of

yes of course the parents could still be in the frame -

anyway there seems to be a few things happening at the moment more than the usual

time will tell

 

[ThoughtFox]

It's a curious thing.

They say she was snatched by a Pedophile Ring. To me, the reason for a group to stalk and kidnap a child would be to keep her alive somewhere, or to sell her to another group. Over and over we have been told by various "witnesses" that she is being "held" in various countries, and even the McCanns have said that.

Yet we know that most Pedophiles do kill children within 24 hours, and most child-snatchings are done in the heat of the moment with no forethought. I'm recalling what we learned in the case of Danielle Van Dam, the little girl in California who was stolen by a "friendly" neighbor who then dumped her body for the coyotes to eat. He kept her for about one day before he killed her. He was not a member of a ring, but he did have *advertiser censored* on his computer of the worst kind, so horrible it made the jury weep.

It seems to me that it can't be both things. If Madeleine was stalked and kidnapped, then it would be for child-*advertiser censored* purposes. If she was killed immediately, then there is no pay-off for such a risk, and it must be the work of a lone person instead of a "ring" of people.

None of it makes alot of sense, but these things never do.

I might add that in the case of the Van Dam child, the guilty man was convicted based on one strand of hair in his sink, a spot of blood on his coat, and the fact that a cadaver dog hit on his camper. From what we have heard, there is just as much, or as little, evidence in this case, but it leads to the parents instead of a child molester.

 

[ThoughtFox]

From Sky News:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1303934,00.html?f=rss

The frogmen are trawling for clues in Silves, 40 miles from where the British girl vanished in Praia da Luz.

But Brian Healey, 67, said: "They haven't found anything yet. We have to believe a miracle can happen.

"I still believe she is alive and, until someone tells me different, I will believe."

The divers are not police officers and detectives have already checked the reservoir and ruled it out.

The current search is being paid for by a Portuguese lawyer who claims to have underworld contacts.

That's a little different spin than the tabloids, for sure. Saying this guy is an attorney "with underworld contacts" is more negative than the articles who called him a "good Samaritan." :clap: :crazy: That's pretty funny actually.

Also, the Grandfather says "they haven't found anything" even the attorney talked about a "knotted rope." Of course, that rope could be anything.

Note that the divers are not associated with police, and they've already searched that reservoir, which is what I thought because I recognized some of the pictures of the place. But also, that contradicts the tabloids that said there were police divers participating.

 

[Prickle]

The search for Maddie is becoming more bizarre as each day passes, no one knows any more than they did 6 months ago. Hot leads go cold in no time at all and hopes are dashed on a daily basis.

As a matter of concern, is no one looking for little Mari Luz Cortes who has been missing since January 13th. I find it so sad that here is this little girl, missing in the same way as Maddie and yet nothing in the papers, not a fraction of the publicity given to Madeleine.

Does anyone know anything at all regarding little Mari ?

 

[Texana]

It's a curious thing.

They say she was snatched by a Pedophile Ring. To me, the reason for a group to stalk and kidnap a child would be to keep her alive somewhere, or to sell her to another group. Over and over we have been told by various "witnesses" that she is being "held" in various countries, and even the McCanns have said that.

Yet we know that most Pedophiles do kill children within 24 hours, and most child-snatchings are done in the heat of the moment with no forethought. I'm recalling what we learned in the case of Danielle Van Dam, the little girl in California who was stolen by a "friendly" neighbor who then dumped her body for the coyotes to eat. He kept her for about one day before he killed her. He was not a member of a ring, but he did have *advertiser censored* on his computer of the worst kind, so horrible it made the jury weep.

It seems to me that it can't be both things. If Madeleine was stalked and kidnapped, then it would be for child-*advertiser censored* purposes. If she was killed immediately, then there is no pay-off for such a risk, and it must be the work of a lone person instead of a "ring" of people.

I agree with your reasoning. If there is any truth to the abductor story, it's someone who acted alone.

 

[txsvicki]

What is the McCann's reasoning to believe that a pedophile ring took Madeline and not a lone pedophile? An international ring would definitely be a better story to try and raise money. If they really do suspect these rings, then why don't they alert Europe against vacationing in certain areas and leaving children alone.

 

[ThoughtFox]

What is the McCann's reasoning to believe that a pedophile ring took Madeline and not a lone pedophile? An international ring would definitely be a better story to try and raise money. If they really do suspect these rings, then why don't they alert Europe against vacationing in certain areas and leaving children alone.

It's a mystery to me why they don't.

I wonder if any of the Tapas Nine is planning a vacation abroad this year?

 

[Texana]

It's a mystery to me why they don't.

I wonder if any of the Tapas Nine is planning a vacation abroad this year?

Probably.
:furious:

 

[gord]

I might add that in the case of the Van Dam child, the guilty man was convicted based on one strand of hair in his sink, a spot of blood on his coat, and the fact that a cadaver dog hit on his camper. From what we have heard, there is just as much, or as little, evidence in this case, but it leads to the parents instead of a child molester.

there is also the point that in the Van dam case the minute DNA evidence put the girl in a place she shouldnt have been - ie it created a link between the perp and the victim - however small . It is how a lot of cold cases now are being solved - officers going back and examining minute pieces of evidence from say twenty years back - getting DNA traces which in turn lead to a new suspect and in a lot of cases a successful prosection .

In this case it will be perfectly normal for minute pieces of Maddy's DNA / hair to appear in and around the Mccaans -

it is the one area that concerns me on this case - there has been a massive improvement in DNA detection over the years - I would have thiought that if there was damming evidence it might have come out by now - the PJ would have moved

They might be keeping their tinder dry - but I dont see why

 

[SleuthMom]

it is the one area that concerns me on this case - there has been a massive improvement in DNA detection over the years - I would have thiought that if there was damming evidence it might have come out by now - the PJ would have moved

I agree. Maybe two things:

1. We are speaking about Portugal here, not the US or UK.

OR

2. The DNA evidence is not strong enough to charge anyone.

 

[daffodil]

I would agree with both those.