Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 20

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329272,00.html

Report: Top Portuguese Cop Says There Are More Important Things to Do Than Find Madeleine McCann

A high-ranking Portuguese police official declared Thursday that his colleagues have more important things to do than try to find missing British girl Madeleine McCann.
The shocking admission, published in the Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas, came as police were reportedly preparing an "exit strategy" from the case, sources told the newspaper.
"There are bigger problems in the PJ than the Maddie case," Carlos Anjos, head of the Judicial Police (PJ) Inspectors Union, told the newspaper.
Anjos' comments followed a statement by the national director of the PJ, Alipio Ribeiro, in which he admitted that authorities had acted "hastily" in making Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, formal suspects in their daughter's disappearance.

More at link

 

[colomom]

Thanks to Bat E Bird on Proboards 79:

Hi all, I won't be on for long tonight but I've just seen this from Tony Bennett on Anorak:

350
Tony Bennett Says:

February 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
THE MADELEINE FOUNDATION

170 delboy says (February 7th, 2008 at 11:53 am):

re: “Tony Bennett says: ‘I may try, with others, to raise funds to obtain a barrister’s legal opinion on whether the McCanns could be successfully prosecuted for their admitted child neglect (under the Children and Young Persons Act 1933) in this country. I estimate the toal cost of obtaining it would be no more than £1,000 and we will try and do that through the vehicle of the recently-formed Madeleine Foundation’.”

Tony is there an address for donations, can you put it on Anorak….

====================

REPLY: In today’s post came news that our bank account has been opened.

The Madeleine Foundation is a democratic memebrship organisation which anyone can join for £10, so long as they subscribe to the aims as stated in our draft constitution, which are:

a) to make every effort to ensure that Kate and Gerry McCann are prosecuted for their admitted abandoning of their children six nights in a row in Praia da Luz

b) to change the law in whatever way is needed in order to send out a clear message to all parents that leaving young children on their own is never acceptable, and to strive for the adoption of a ‘Madeleine’s Law’ with its key message: “Never leave young children on their own”

c) to pursue - in conjunction with others - the truth about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance on 3 May 2007, and in particular to encourage Kate and Gerry McCann and the friends who were with them in Praia da Luz to tell the truth about Madeleine’s disappearance

d) to investigate the facts behind the extent of British government involvement in this case and the reasons for it

e) to ensure that the media, in particular the British media, report this case accurately and give due weight to the opinions of so many of the general public that the McCanns are withholding the truth about Madeleine’s disappearance

f) to demand a full-scale investigation by the relevant authorities into the activities of the Find Madeleine Fund private trust and to encourage the trustees of that fund to give full particulars about its income and expenditure to the public who have donated so generously to it with the express purpose of finding Madeleine

g) to generally promote the welfare of children, in particular by ensuring that parents are aware of the psychological needs of their children and ensuring that the relevant authorities take appropriate action to safeguard and promote the welfare of children.

Initial funds raised will be put first of all to obtaining an authoritative legal opinion from a barrister on whether or not the McCanns could be successfully prosecuted for child neglect in this country. This money will go to an instructing solicitor - NOT me - and to a barrister. We intend to publish the barrister’s opinion on our website.

Three domain names have been registered and will be publicised shortly.

Applications for memberhip or donations should be sent to:

Tony Bennett, 66 Chippingfield, HARLOW, Essex, CM17 0DJ and cheques should be made out to ‘The Madeleine Foundation’.

I emphasise that this is a *membership* organisation and we invite *anyone* to join and if they wish become actively involved in realising our aims
*********************

Anyone know how much £10 is in US Dollars?

 

[daffodil]

A-F,never gonna happen.G- good idea.

 

[scandi]

Hi Everyone.

Tonight I happened on this remarkable video that takes one right back to the heart of Madeleine's case, The REAL Madeleine McCann Story produced by Spudgun.

Thinking there might be many here who haven't seen it, or it's been awhile, it seems to put everything in perspective that we have learned. In such a medium Madeleine appears to be right there, and when you see her standing in her little red dress you might feel a tear or two slip down your cheek. All Good!

Sit back and relax, and Thanks again to Spudgun:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRvgK6M2_7Q

 

[gord]

its that the same Tony Bennet - who sings in vegas ? might as well be

I have no idea who he is - what is motivation is - maybe he sees a good way to make a few bob - who knows plenty people might send him money

I like some of his objectives to take on the British goverment - cause we dont believe them , and also the whole of the British Media - cause we dont like the way you write - please only write things against the Mccaans - oh and we probably want to change the law as well

anyway - it is an interesting site - oh and £10 is about $20 of your US dollars Colomom if you want to get your cheque book out !

 

[ThoughtFox]

I think about as many people here will give to that, as gave to the McCanns. Probably zero.

For one thing, if anyone in the British Govt. cared, something would have been done long before now. I've come to the conclusion that the UK only cares about defending the McCanns instead of discovering the truth. No judge is going to stand up to that because they just don't give a flying fig.

They can blame it on the Portuguese police, but Madeleine is a citizen of the U.K. and though she was just a child, that doesn't mean her parents rights supersede her own.

So I'm skeptical now that the British Govt wants to find out what happened to her. It would be bad for their image. It would be bad for tourism or something. It would make them all feel badly because the McCanns are so pretty and successful, and they play tennis so well, and like to run around talking about running around. It's like watching an ant farm, the way this case is playing out.

Also, they are crappy diplomats if they can't work out those rogatory letters in seven or eight months. That is nonsense. Are you telling me there isn't someone in Britain who can translate Portuguese into understandable English?

Until someone can explain this to me, I'm blaming the British government, because as far as I can see, they are foot draggers and cowards who won't confront an injustice done to a small child in a foreign country. :furious:

 

[gord]

Thought fox

I am going to try an answer your question as best as I can , without getting into any tit for tat argument that seem to be so often about this case - not just here , but in every internet forum going .

Firstly in the UK there is a clear distinction between the goverment and the law - this has grown up over many hundreds of years so that the legal system in this land can operate without any bias from whatever party or goverment is in rule at the time . I believe that the US has not a disimillar point of view . It is all about keeping our elected officials within the law - after all they are only elected officials - not above the law in any way - this is sacrosanct in our way of life here in the UK - we do trust our democracy and our legal system which as been with us for teh last 500 years plus

Madeline is of course a biritish citizen - and her parents were offered full consular assistance at the time when Maddie went missng - as any citizen abroad would expect - as you would if you were abroad and needed your goverment assitance -

The situation changed as soon as the Portugese Police made the Mccanns suspects or arguidos - the goverment has to step back and let the legal process of both countries take place - that is what happens hundreds of casis where a possible crime has taken place abroad - the law takes over . The law is what needs to take over . as because if we let anything else get in the way we have anarchy . do you honestly think that the British Goverment at senior level - ie PM and foreign secretary ( Milliband ) are going to get themselves involved in a legal battle in anything so drastic as a child murder case - just because they are British . Do we really think that Gerry is so connected that he can get the goverment to pull strings . Come onthis is the Gerry Mccann that gets mocked daily here and in the news - he is a just who he is - a doctor

You feel frustrated - because nothing has happened - there is no charges , you are convinced they did it - but please this case has nothing to do with the British goverment - it is a very sad case where a youg girl has dissapeared .

In a democratic country - as we have in the UK and we have in Portugal - then the legal system decides - not politicians - it is police and judges .

You might not be happy about the lack of outcome - I am not that happy either - but if we cannot trust our police , our judicary then we have nothing -

For you to just drop this at the feet at the goverment is just plain wrong .

( IMHO )

 

[colomom]

Thought fox

I am going to try an answer your question as best as I can , without getting into any tit for tat argument that seem to be so often about this case - not just here , but in every internet forum going .

Firstly in the UK there is a clear distinction between the goverment and the law - this has grown up over many hundreds of years so that the legal system in this land can operate without any bias from whatever party or goverment is in rule at the time . I believe that the US has not a disimillar point of view . It is all about keeping our elected officials within the law - after all they are only elected officials - not above the law in any way - this is sacrosanct in our way of life here in the UK - we do trust our democracy and our legal system which as been with us for teh last 500 years plus

Madeline is of course a biritish citizen - and her parents were offered full consular assistance at the time when Maddie went missng - as any citizen abroad would expect - as you would if you were abroad and needed your goverment assitance -

The situation changed as soon as the Portugese Police made the Mccanns suspects or arguidos - the goverment has to step back and let the legal process of both countries take place - that is what happens hundreds of casis where a possible crime has taken place abroad - the law takes over . The law is what needs to take over . as because if we let anything else get in the way we have anarchy . do you honestly think that the British Goverment at senior level - ie PM and foreign secretary ( Milliband ) are going to get themselves involved in a legal battle in anything so drastic as a child murder case - just because they are British . Do we really think that Gerry is so connected that he can get the goverment to pull strings . Come onthis is the Gerry Mccann that gets mocked daily here and in the news - he is a just who he is - a doctor

You feel frustrated - because nothing has happened - there is no charges , you are convinced they did it - but please this case has nothing to do with the British goverment - it is a very sad case where a youg girl has dissapeared .

In a democratic country - as we have in the UK and we have in Portugal - then the legal system decides - not politicians - it is police and judges .

You might not be happy about the lack of outcome - I am not that happy either - but if we cannot trust our police , our judicary then we have nothing -

For you to just drop this at the feet at the goverment is just plain wrong .

( IMHO )

Unless he is MI5....I am just saying....

 

[ThoughtFox]

gord: I live in a democratic country, too. This has nothing to do with that.

I also live in a big country, but I can mail a letter from where I live to California and it will take two days to get there. That's further, surely, than from Portugal to England.

It took one day for the McCanns to pack up the plantation and fly by to England after they were made Arguidoes.

This stuff about these questions "in the mail" has gone on for months, and it's ridiculous.

My point is that Britain could have sent a special courier to pick up these letters if they were interested in Maddie at all. Instead, they seem glad that it is getting murkier all the time. Their silence is deafening.

 

[april4sky]

Thought fox

I am going to try an answer your question as best as I can , without getting into any tit for tat argument that seem to be so often about this case - not just here , but in every internet forum going .

Firstly in the UK there is a clear distinction between the goverment and the law - this has grown up over many hundreds of years so that the legal system in this land can operate without any bias from whatever party or goverment is in rule at the time . I believe that the US has not a disimillar point of view . It is all about keeping our elected officials within the law - after all they are only elected officials - not above the law in any way - this is sacrosanct in our way of life here in the UK - we do trust our democracy and our legal system which as been with us for teh last 500 years plus

Madeline is of course a biritish citizen - and her parents were offered full consular assistance at the time when Maddie went missng - as any citizen abroad would expect - as you would if you were abroad and needed your goverment assitance -

The situation changed as soon as the Portugese Police made the Mccanns suspects or arguidos - the goverment has to step back and let the legal process of both countries take place - that is what happens hundreds of casis where a possible crime has taken place abroad - the law takes over . The law is what needs to take over . as because if we let anything else get in the way we have anarchy . do you honestly think that the British Goverment at senior level - ie PM and foreign secretary ( Milliband ) are going to get themselves involved in a legal battle in anything so drastic as a child murder case - just because they are British . Do we really think that Gerry is so connected that he can get the goverment to pull strings . Come onthis is the Gerry Mccann that gets mocked daily here and in the news - he is a just who he is - a doctor

You feel frustrated - because nothing has happened - there is no charges , you are convinced they did it - but please this case has nothing to do with the British goverment - it is a very sad case where a youg girl has dissapeared .

In a democratic country - as we have in the UK and we have in Portugal - then the legal system decides - not politicians - it is police and judges .

You might not be happy about the lack of outcome - I am not that happy either - but if we cannot trust our police , our judicary then we have nothing -

For you to just drop this at the feet at the goverment is just plain wrong .

( IMHO )

Well said gord. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

And can you imagine the outcry if the British government sent someone to Portugal to get the so called questions. They would be accused of trying to take over the investigation.
Portuguese police need to pull their finger out....they are the ones who are supposed to be investigating this case.

 

[Salem]

Gord - I'm shortening your post in my response for space reasons and highlighting the items I am responding too. Hope you don't mind.

Thought fox

Firstly in the UK there is a clear distinction between the goverment and the law - this has grown up over many hundreds of years so that the legal system in this land can operate without any bias from whatever party or goverment is in rule at the time . I believe that the US has not a disimillar point of view . It is all about keeping our elected officials within the law - after all they are only elected officials - not above the law in any way -

The situation changed as soon as the Portugese Police made the Mccanns suspects or arguidos - the goverment has to step back and let the legal process of both countries take place. The law is what needs to take over . do you honestly think that the British Goverment at senior level - ie PM and foreign secretary ( Milliband ) are going to get themselves involved in a legal battle in anything so drastic as a child murder case. Do we really think that Gerry is so connected that he can get the goverment to pull strings . Come onthis is the Gerry Mccann that gets mocked daily here and in the news - he is a just who he is - a doctor

but please this case has nothing to do with the British goverment - it is a very sad case where a youg girl has dissapeared .

In a democratic country - as we have in the UK and we have in Portugal - then the legal system decides - not politicians - it is police and judges .

( IMHO )

It is true that Britian and the US have a very similar legal system. Because of that, I think it is naive to believe that the British govern't has not had a "position" in this case. I do not believe there is a "clear" distinction between the government and the law - at least not before the case gets to court. Government are well known for interferring with all kinds of criminal and civil cases that they should have no part in. And getting them out of the way does not generally happen before the case gets to the highest court. It is quite apparent that the McCanns have connections with the British government and, in particular, Mr. Brown. To think that Mr. Brown has no "weight" in this investigation is just plain wrong, in my opinion. His hands are all over it. And as prime minister, I have no doubt that he at least some power to interfere and muck up the investigation, if he wants to.

You are correct in that the Government does need to step back and let the law takeover. Many of us are waiting to see that happen and we hope it is soon.

You say Gerry is just a "doctor." However, I would propose that "doctors" are somewhat like royalty in your Country. Every article every written about the McCanns has reminded us that they are "doctors." This comment is generally written in such a way that it leads one to think that the McCanns could not have committed a crime because they are "doctors." Rather than excusing their behavior, I think the fact that they are doctors makes them even more likely to be involved in Maddie's disappearance, not less, because they have more to lose and it would tarnish there "royal doctorness."

It does appear that current news is being leaked in order to prepare the general public for the shelving of this case. I will be very disappointed if that happens. Even if the parents are not guilty of Maddie's demise, it is my opinion that they are not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth and therefore they are guilty of impeding the investigation and, if in fact, Maddie was taken, then the McCanns are not only guilty of leaving Maddie alone, they are guilty of impeding the efforts of law enforcement to find her.

My opinion only, but I sincerely believe the British government has had a heavy hand in the progress of this investigation.

Salem

 

[Texana]

You say Gerry is just a "doctor." However, I would propose that "doctors" are somewhat like royalty in your Country. Every article every written about the McCanns has reminded us that they are "doctors." This comment is generally written in such a way that it leads one to think that the McCanns could not have committed a crime because they are "doctors." Rather than excusing their behavior, I think the fact that they are doctors makes them even more likely to be involved in Maddie's disappearance, not less, because they have more to lose and it would tarnish there "royal doctorness."

It does appear that current news is being leaked in order to prepare the general public for the shelving of this case. I will be very disappointed if that happens. Even if the parents are not guilty of Maddie's demise, it is my opinion that they are not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth and therefore they are guilty of impeding the investigation and, if in fact, Maddie was taken, then the McCanns are not only guilty of leaving Maddie alone, they are guilty of impeding the efforts of law enforcement to find her.

My opinion only, but I sincerely believe the British government has had a heavy hand in the progress of this investigation.

Salem

Really good points, Salem. Well said.

 

[Tony Bennett]

I refer to Post No. 222 on this thread by colomon.

I have been aware of Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community for some time and have today decided to register.

My keen interest in the 'disappearance' of Madeleine McCann dates really from the very early days, when it just seemed something was not quite right, but more particularly from late August, when many stories began to suggest that the McCanns were involved in some way.

I don't intend to say anythig about myself here, save to say that my interest in the subject can be traced on the Anorak Forum where I have been an active contributor for 5 months. I prefer to debate and discuss in my own name.

I am happy to answer any questions about The Madeleine Foundation, why it was formed, and what we have been doing and intend to do, either publicly on this forum, or by pm, so long as the Moderators are content

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[april4sky]

McCanns to be cleared as no evidence found

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/09/wmaddy109.xml

Kate and Gerry McCann are to be cleared as official suspects in their daughter Madeleine’s disappearance after a review concluded there is no evidence they were involved, it has emerged.
The couple’s status as arguidos will be lifted unless “screaming contradictions” are revealed in forthcoming police interviews, according to a Portuguese newspaper.

***************
From the press so may or may not be true.

The longer this case has gone on and with accusations against the McCanns becoming ever more outragious the less I have believed they were involved.

Sadly I don't believe the PLE are, or were ever up to the job.

 

[colomom]

I refer to Post No. 222 on this thread by colomon.

I have been aware of Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community for some time and have today decided to register.

My keen interest in the 'disappearance' of Madeleine McCann dates really from the very early days, when it just seemed something was not quite right, but more particularly from late August, when many stories began to suggest that the McCanns were involved in some way.

I don't intend to say anythig about myself here, save to say that my interest in the subject can be traced on the Anorak Forum where I have been an active contributor for 5 months. I prefer to debate and discuss in my own name.

I am happy to answer any questions about The Madeleine Foundation, why it was formed, and what we have been doing and intend to do, either publicly on this forum, or by pm, so long as the Moderators are content

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome aboard Mr. Bennett!

I am looking forward to your contribution. I have a favor, please.

Would you be able to point us to your website (if you have one) or perhaps you could tell us more (just a little bit) about your background. I believe that you are an attorney. Is that accurate? Please tell us a bit about your plans for the immediate future regarding finding justice for our girl who seems to have been forgotten as of late. Thank you in advance.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

McCanns to be cleared as no evidence found

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/09/wmaddy109.xml

Kate and Gerry McCann are to be cleared as official suspects in their daughter Madeleine’s disappearance after a review concluded there is no evidence they were involved, it has emerged.
The couple’s status as arguidos will be lifted unless “screaming contradictions” are revealed in forthcoming police interviews, according to a Portuguese newspaper.

***************
From the press so may or may not be true.

The longer this case has gone on and with accusations against the McCanns becoming ever more outragious the less I have believed they were involved.

Sadly I don't believe the PLE are, or were ever up to the job.

You know April, as much as I hate to admit it I do agree with you on the outrageous accusations part. I know I have made a few, and I'm not totally convinced of their innocence yet, BUT...after reading a few other less moderated forums I have to say I might be moving back to the fence.

I am totally hated, and called a "pro" on the 3 Arguidos forum, because I have been challenging the masses about the numerous pictures released by the McCanns. There are people who believe EVERY picture has been photo-shopped because one person says it so. Then the followers of each claim all agree, without a shred of evidence. When I take similar pictures and post them to prove the shadows are consistent, or the reflections accurate they'll say I'm hateful and challenge me.

My point is, I now can see how easily the McCann rumors are started, and how easily some people RUN with it and can take a totally innocent situation, and convert it into a huge conspiracy theory. It is so sad, really.

 

[colomom]

The "radical" forums (either "pro" or "anti") are distressing to me IW. I will look at the 3A's just to see if there is any "breaking news". The same way I used to check the Mirror board. I rarely post because I too, see the gang mentality. I much prefer the civil tone of this board or especially, the Proboards site.

Stick to your guns, IW. No matter what you believe, every one deserves to be heard and treated with the same respect that they themselves exhibit.

Your last sentence just illustrates how the lack of information released by the PJ has made this case into the circus that it has become at times. It is my main aggravation as well.

Justice for Madeleine!!

 

[april4sky]

You know April, as much as I hate to admit it I do agree with you on the outrageous accusations part. I know I have made a few, and I'm not totally convinced of their innocence yet, BUT...after reading a few other less moderated forums I have to say I might be moving back to the fence.

I am totally hated, and called a "pro" on the 3 Arguidos forum, because I have been challenging the masses about the numerous pictures released by the McCanns. There are people who believe EVERY picture has been photo-shopped because one person says it so. Then the followers of each claim all agree, without a shred of evidence. When I take similar pictures and post them to prove the shadows are consistent, or the reflections accurate they'll say I'm hateful and challenge me.

My point is, I now can see how easily the McCann rumors are started, and how easily some people RUN with it and can take a totally innocent situation, and convert it into a huge conspiracy theory. It is so sad, really.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN thankyou. I think this is a great post especially after our previous exchanges. I apologise for my part.

Whats been happening is sad but you have just restored my faith.

And your last sentence explains whats happened perfectly.

I'm so glad I didn't put you on ignore. :blowkiss:

 

[Salem]

Thank you Texana.

And IW your statement "I am totally hated, and called a "pro" on the 3 Arguidos forum" made me laugh - you a "pro" McCann. I just say that based on our exchanges here. Please know that I totally support your position and your privilege to review all the information and come to different conclusions from time to time.

I still believe in their guilt - but that does not mean that I don't bounce back and forth from time to time. There are just certain things I can not reconcile in this case. They make no sense to me, one of the biggest ones is that so many people appear to be involved and no one is talking. I have a hard time believing that not 1 of 9 people would tell the truth. This just seems to be incredibly high odds, 9 out of 9 people who have no conscious???:waitasec:

Salem

PS - Welcome Mr. Bennett!

 

[Barnaby]

Welcome Mr Bennet, very interested to hear what you have to contribute.