Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #27

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mrjitty said:
Out of interest - has this ever happened in a murder case?

I have certainly seen it in corporate cases - e.g, fraud etc

Theranos is a great recent example
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How about McNamara and the "Golden State killer"? or Christine Pelisek and the "Grim Sleeper"? or even the case of the disappearance of Madalyn O'Hair, which journalist John MacCormack managed to prove it was abduction and murder and that a headless body belonged to her

these are examples of some brilliant work by journalists and writers
 
RichardKimble said:
Very much so , in the Madeleine case, we can charge but we won't .
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Why would they charge when CB is locked up until 2026?
CB's no danger to women or little children now, BKA has another 4 years to keep looking for snippets that may lead to the discovery of MM's body, why not wait?
Keep it in the media and keep nudging people to come forward.
Even if he doesn't find the 'smoking gun' evidence, he said he still has enough to charge.
This case is unprecedented in that it has been played out in the media for the past 13 years, why go against the grain now?
HCW said the investigation is open ended, they're in no rush.
HCW's patience will eventually pay off IMO, even if WE can't wait.

JMO
 
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mrjitty said:
This is why giving a running commentary on cases you "might" charge someone for is stupid.
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why is it stupid? in May 2021 the pandemic appeared to be finishing - the "may" in his phrase is key. HCW is not a fortune teller and cannot predict the future. In the meantime, in these 3 months, we had more restrictions coming in place for covid, and then we got the Omicron variant. Possibly under normal circumstances, they might have been able to charge within those 3 months... but you know we live in strange times. give him a break - he is doing fantastically well, given the pressure he is having to deal with with such a case amidst the pandemic.
 
tedtink said:
Why would they charge when CB is locked up until 2026?
CB's no danger to women or little children now, BKA has another 4 years to keep looking for snippets that may lead to the discovery of MM's body, why not wait?
Keep it in the media and keep nudging people to come forward.
Even if he doesn't find the 'smoking gun' evidence, he said he still has enough to charge.
This case is unprecedented in that it has been played out in the media for the past 13 years, why go against the grain now?
HCW said the investigation is open ended, they're in no rush.
HCW's patience will eventually pay off IMO, even if WE can't wait.

JMO
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Exactly Ted. We've gone over this point here numerous times now and I think to most of us, the BKA's position makes absolute sense. Why charge when you don't need to yet and have the time and opportunity to strengthen your case? And with so many other cases being compiled in parallel and multiple agencies involved, it's far from straightforward for the BKA. But as they say "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

While some people make a fair point about the BKA approach (it has been unorthodox admittedly), some people's objections have little to do with the actual approach and everything to do with them having made their minds up long ago over what they believe happened in 5A.
 
Dlk79 said:
Exactly Ted. We've gone over this point here numerous times now and I think to most of us, the BKA's position makes absolute sense. Why charge when you don't need to yet and have the time and opportunity to strengthen your case? And with so many other cases being compiled in parallel and multiple agencies involved, it's far from straightforward for the BKA. But as they say "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

While some people make a fair point about the BKA approach (it has been unorthodox admittedly), some people's objections have little to do with the actual approach and everything to do with them having made their minds up long ago over what they believe happened in 5A.
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I am OK with public appeals for info, but my beef with what HCW is doing is that it is a breach of natural justice. An unscrupulous or simply mistaken prosecutor can accuse a person of rape/murder in the media, without ever having enough evidence to charge.

Fine so long as the accused is actually guilty

But what if he isn't?
 
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tedtink said:
Why would they charge when CB is locked up until 2026?
CB's no danger to women or little children now, BKA has another 4 years to keep looking for snippets that may lead to the discovery of MM's body, why not wait?
Keep it in the media and keep nudging people to come forward.
Even if he doesn't find the 'smoking gun' evidence, he said he still has enough to charge.
This case is unprecedented in that it has been played out in the media for the past 13 years, why go against the grain now?
HCW said the investigation is open ended, they're in no rush.
HCW's patience will eventually pay off IMO, even if WE can't wait.

JMO
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Keep in mind that HCW is accusing someone of rape and murder, based on secret evidence that the accused cannot address.

Do prosecutors always accuse the right person?

I understand that the public appeal had judicial oversight, but I cannot accept a prosecutor speculating about "possibly" charging someone of a shocking crime - then not actually doing it 8 months later. This amounts to convicting someone in the court of public opinion but without charging, so that they have no access to the case against them.

The defences of HCW all assume CB is guilty, or at least such a bad person that it doesn't matter.

But what is a prosecutor made a mistake and did this against someone who was actually innocent? What if CB is never charged?
 
Dlk79 said:
While some people make a fair point about the BKA approach (it has been unorthodox admittedly), some people's objections have little to do with the actual approach and everything to do with them having made their minds up long ago over what they believe happened in 5A.
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For my part I simply want transparent and open justice. People accused of shocking crimes should be charged with them, so that they can confront the evidence against them in a judicial process.

If you can't charge, by all means take your time. But don't go running to the Mirror to say you might have a good enough case in 3 months.
 
mrjitty said:
Keep in mind that HCW is accusing someone of rape and murder, based on secret evidence that the accused cannot address.

Do prosecutors always accuse the right person?

I understand that the public appeal had judicial oversight, but I cannot accept a prosecutor speculating about "possibly" charging someone of a shocking crime - then not actually doing it 8 months later. This amounts to convicting someone in the court of public opinion but without charging, so that they have no access to the case against them.

The defences of HCW all assume CB is guilty, or at least such a bad person that it doesn't matter.

But what is a prosecutor made a mistake and did this against someone who was actually innocent? What if CB is never charged?
Click to expand...

It appears that all those legal documents I researched and added to the thread have not been taken into consideration at all. The judicial oversight is extremely significant, it's not just an aside aspect of the whole case.

If you were right, FF would have been the first person to protest 'officially' instead of spending his time frequenting anti-mccann conspiracy theory FB groups
 
mrjitty said:
Keep in mind that HCW is accusing someone of rape and murder, based on secret evidence that the accused cannot address.

Do prosecutors always accuse the right person?

I understand that the public appeal had judicial oversight, but I cannot accept a prosecutor speculating about "possibly" charging someone of a shocking crime - then not actually doing it 8 months later. This amounts to convicting someone in the court of public opinion but without charging, so that they have no access to the case against them.

The defences of HCW all assume CB is guilty, or at least such a bad person that it doesn't matter.

But what is a prosecutor made a mistake and did this against someone who was actually innocent? What if CB is never charged?
Click to expand...

BBM

Then we will be in exactly the same position we have been in since 2007.
The same position where some. in the Court of Public opinion still, wrongly, push the alleged 'guilt' of the parents with amateur documentaries, books and numerous dedicated websites, which is not dissimilar to CB's position now, only that the MC's have had to endure it for a lot longer.

It works both ways, and I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, and this isn't 'whataboutism' but no rational. questioning person should presume guilt on any party unless proven. CB will be forgotten, if he's not charged, like RM, EM and others, but the MC's won't in the Court of Public Opinion, sadly.

JMO
 
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Dlk79 said:
Exactly Ted. We've gone over this point here numerous times now and I think to most of us, the BKA's position makes absolute sense. Why charge when you don't need to yet and have the time and opportunity to strengthen your case? And with so many other cases being compiled in parallel and multiple agencies involved, it's far from straightforward for the BKA. But as they say "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

While some people make a fair point about the BKA approach (it has been unorthodox admittedly), some people's objections have little to do with the actual approach and everything to do with them having made their minds up long ago over what they believe happened in 5A.
Click to expand...
Myself, I've no thoughts one way or the other, is justice really served in Germany by going to the press with statements indicating CB is guilty but not so guilty we don't charge ,don't know how Madeleine died,no idea where the body is, no forensics , its all circumstantial, then some posters think the BKA are intent on prosecuting for lesser crimes (media reports mostly) with the idea it some how implicates CB in murder.
 
C.greek said:
It appears that all those legal documents I researched and added to the thread have not been taken into consideration at all. The judicial oversight is extremely significant, it's not just an aside aspect of the whole case.

If you were right, FF would have been the first person to protest 'officially' instead of spending his time frequenting anti-mccann conspiracy theory FB groups
Click to expand...

And CB reaching out to the anti MC individuals? Does he really think they are his best hope in this case?
I mean c'mon.....they are bound to sympathise with him and be is loudest supporters, and he knows it.

JMO
 
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tedtink said:
BBM

Then we will be in exactly the same position we have been in since 2007.
The same position where some. in the Court of Public opinion still, wrongly, push the alleged 'guilt' of the parents with amateur documentaries, books and numerous dedicated websites, which is not dissimilar to CB's position now, only that the MC's have had to endure it for a lot longer.

It works both ways, and I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, and this isn't 'whataboutism' but no rational. questioning person should presume guilt on any party unless proven. CB will be forgotten, if he's not charged, like RM, EM and others, but the MC's won't in the Court of Public Opinion, sadly.

JMO
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It'll be hard for CB to escape the handle of being Madeleines killer, the brit press will not let it go, over time if there's no trial then as soon as a snippet of news appears out will come that name.
 
RichardKimble said:
It'll be hard for CB to escape the handle of being Madeleines killer, the brit press will not let it go, over time if there's no trial then as soon as a snippet of news appears out will come that name.
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If there's no trial, CB is still innocent, CB and FF could potentially sue for defamation regarding previous stories and prevent any further news stories going forward.
 
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@mrjitty And those are fair points on the whole, I wasn't suggesting your opinion on the matter had anything to do with bias btw. From a legal viewpoint, I agree the way this case has played out is very unusual. Although I don't think it's a case of HCW running to the Mirror as them constantly seeking commentary from him. I can understand why he obliges, keeping the media on side could be critical to what happens in terms of the appeal and ultimately any charges that arise. And 99% of the time, he doesn't really tell us much more than we already knew. I'd also say that the majority of the allegations about CB in the Press are not coming directly from him. But sure, I take your point.

My personal opinion is that they have taken this approach because they are 100% certain he is guilty based on what they've found. Their issue is that they have no forensics and no body, so they are into unchartered territory when it comes to how to assure a conviction at trial. Therefore, the public appeal was necessary to gain as much additional evidence as possible. It seems to be a choice between dropping the case, pushing ahead with an inadequate case or going public with affirmative statements of his guilt so that the public take it seriously and know that this isn't just another wild goose chase. The amount of time that has gone by is simply a consequence of how successful the appeal has been so far and possibly what level of co-operation they are getting from PJ (I suspect there are some big issues there behind the scenes personally). They still don't (yet) appear to have any smoking gun, but they apparently do now have enough to press forward with the charge. Myself, I don't have that big an issue with how BKA have gone about this, but I understand why others might. What I don't have time for is people slamming HCW for having the wrong suspect and discrediting the case against CB simply because they believe something else happened in 5A. JMO.
 
mrjitty said:
Keep in mind that HCW is accusing someone of rape and murder, based on secret evidence that the accused cannot address.
Click to expand...

CB has every opportunity to speak voluntarily with BKA, but he chooses to write to women such as IM. Why?

"you could order holy water as a long drink in hell" before his client cooperated with the investigation.
 
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tedtink said:
If there's no trial, if CB is innocent, CB and FF could potentially sue for defamation regarding previous stories and prevent any further news stories going forward.
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Once linked to the death would be an easy get out.


John Canaan is still portrayed as the man police believe killed Suzi Lamplugh.
 
RichardKimble said:
Once linked to the death would be an easy get out.
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But it wouldn't. They'll always be a public split between 'the parents did it' and a whodunnit.
The case can split a room.
If CB is not proven to be MM's murderer, the MC's will hope she is still alive and carry on searching, and the public pendulum will swing back to the parents did it for 1/2 the public. The anti MC's will feel vindicated.

John Canaan - never heard of him - just shows not everyone in interested in who allegedly killed who.
 
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