Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[mrjitty]

It’s purely my opinion but the article is implying that the McCanns have been cleared from any involvement of MM’s disappearance hence the need to apologise. Other than complete certainty that CB is the culprit, how can they feel it necessary to apologise?

“Portuguese police now say their initial investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was not handled properly, there was insufficient importance given at the time to missing children and that her parents' position as foreigners in an environment they did not understand was not appreciated.”

It's possible they are basically closing the case on their side. Killer's been found. He's out of jurisdiction. Mistakes were made by people who don't work at PJ anymore. etc

 

[mrjitty]

So has anything really happened?

Or are we still at the same place of not to expect anything until next year, whatever that means

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Thanks for sharing.

At around 54:00 HCW is discussing the evidence he has. He states words to the effect of, “… maybe we have photos, maybe we have videos… or chats or documents.”

I think his body language is notable during this section. He is very clearly shaking his head “No” while saying photo or video.

IMO, he is trying to convey that he has strong evidence like this but I don’t think he has.

@Consider Dudley, I’m willing to wager that the BKA have no images or footage of MM after her disappearance.

I think CB may have written about recording an offence against a child or even MM but when it all comes out, I don’t think there will be any images.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It's possible they are basically closing the case on their side. Killer's been found. He's out of jurisdiction. Mistakes were made by people who don't work at PJ anymore. etc

It seems as though there are conflicting views on whether an apology was given. The BBC say it was but this has been refuted by the PJ.

Like so many things in this case, the media is being used to portray preferred versions of what happened and what is happening.

I find it hard to believe that the PJ would make a formal apology, even if they were certain CB is the culprit… and I don’t think they can be. Even if they were completely wrong in making the McCanns arguidos, it’s just a line of enquiry they followed. Are there legal ramifications for making the apology? Even if not, I don’t see why they would do it.

 

[Consider Dudley]

So has anything really happened?

Or are we still at the same place of not to expect anything until next year, whatever that means

What has happened is confirmation (as if it were needed) that all three police forces involved in investigating Madeleine’s disappearance are concentrating on building a case against the same suspect. Also, that the PJ appear to have accepted they made mistakes by concentrating all their efforts on the parents in the original investigation. Whether they actually apologised to the parents or not appears unclear. I think it’s the least they could have done, and I’d be interested in Luis Neves justification for not doing so (if indeed they did not) in light of the fact that they obviously now accept they were on the wrong track, having caused massive additional suffering to the parents of the missing child in the process.

 

[Consider Dudley]

It seems as though there are conflicting views on whether an apology was given. The BBC say it was but this has been refuted by the PJ.

Like so many things in this case, the media is being used to portray preferred versions of what happened and what is happening.

I find it hard to believe that the PJ would make a formal apology, even if they were certain CB is the culprit… and I don’t think they can be. Even if they were completely wrong in making the McCanns arguidos, it’s just a line of enquiry they followed. Are there legal ramifications for making the apology? Even if not, I don’t see why they would do it.

Police forces often apologise when it’s clear they have wrongly accused and caused untold damage to those they have targeted. Well they do in the UK anyway.

 

[Mex]

Is it me or has FF had a hair transplant and new gnashers ? Maybe when we get to February he may add a walking cane and monocle.
Interesting watch on Panorama, tick tock.

I don't know if it was the dubbed English voiceover not quite syncing with the spoken German or very poor lighting but something looked odd about FF in that broadcast.
His is no easy task representing a client such as CB. Somebody has to do it though.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

What has happened is confirmation (as if it were needed) that all three police forces involved in investigating Madeleine’s disappearance are concentrating on building a case against the same suspect. Also, that the PJ appear to have accepted they made mistakes by concentrating all their efforts on the parents in the original investigation. Whether they actually apologised to the parents or not appears unclear. I think it’s the least they could have done, and I’d be interested in Luis Neves justification for not doing so (if indeed they did not) in light of the fact that they obviously now accept they were on the wrong track, having caused massive additional suffering to the parents of the missing child in the process.

That's it, 3 police forces..."together". They apologize when they know who wasn't at all, and when there is a "strong" suspect. Another point for them to possibly know what Germans have.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Curiously, when listening to HCW about the evidence they may have, he seems to me more assertive and smilingly confident when say photos (and even videos...) than when he stutters for a few seconds, while to "remember" chats...and documents. I think they may have all except videos.

 

[misty48]

Thanks for sharing.

At around 54:00 HCW is discussing the evidence he has. He states words to the effect of, “… maybe we have photos, maybe we have videos… or chats or documents.”

I think his body language is notable during this section. He is very clearly shaking his head “No” while saying photo or video.

IMO, he is trying to convey that he has strong evidence like this but I don’t think he has.

Maybe they have forensically recovered text messages from 2007 stored on either a SIM card or phone they found at one of CB's premises?

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I don't know if it was the dubbed English voiceover not quite syncing with the spoken German or very poor lighting but something looked odd about FF in that broadcast.
His is no easy task representing a client such as CB. Somebody has to do it though.

Yes, IMO FF seems "tied", frozen, too limited, constrained.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Police forces often apologise when it’s clear they have wrongly accused and caused untold damage to those they have targeted. Well they do in the UK anyway.

Is this an opinion?

Can you please provide a source for when an apology has been made by a police force before someone else has been convicted or before the guilty person has been exonerated?

This would appear unusual to me.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Yes, IMO FF seems "tied", frozen, too limited, constrained.

He seems certain that all the evidence against CB is somewhat shaky. It will be interesting to see who prevails. Certainly FF is gearing up to challenge the fairness of the trial if CB is convicted.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Maybe they have forensically recovered text messages from 2007 stored on either a SIM card or phone they found at one of CB's premises?

It could be anything that gives them the idea he recorded it but I really don’t think they have images or footage.

 

[Mex]

It seems as though there are conflicting views on whether an apology was given. The BBC say it was but this has been refuted by the PJ.

Like so many things in this case, the media is being used to portray preferred versions of what happened and what is happening.

I find it hard to believe that the PJ would make a formal apology, even if they were certain CB is the culprit… and I don’t think they can be. Even if they were completely wrong in making the McCanns arguidos, it’s just a line of enquiry they followed. Are there legal ramifications for making the apology? Even if not, I don’t see why they would do it.

I've seen no confirmation of the said claim.
What I have seen is confirmation that it was in reference not to Luis Neves as alleged, but to the Panorama programme journalist.

I was meaning Biltons source.

So no manipulation of the media. Senior PJ travelled to England specifically to apologise to GM as reported.
Perhaps they have seen the writing on the wall and have avoided the legal ramifications you suggest before the case of CB is blown wide open. I think the reason for apologising at this stage is that there are honourable PJ officers, none more so than Luis Neves, who are very uncomfortable about the unjust way MM's family have been treated.

There is absolutely no doubt that the Portuguese authorities are deadly serious about all aspects of MM's case and intend to see it through to its conclusion.

​

PJ says investigations continue and confirms contacts with Maddie McCann's parents​

"In this context and as opportunely made public, in close coordination with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities, formal acts of investigation and expertise have been carried out, in Portugal and abroad, as well as information being shared and testimonies revisited," the Judiciary Police (PJ) said in a statement.

PJ diz que continuam diligências e confirma contactos com pais de Maddie McCann

Madeleine McCann desapareceu do quarto onde dormia num resort na Praia da Luz, no Algarve, em 2007.

www.cmjornal.pt

 

[onemoremiletogo]

He seems certain that all the evidence against CB is somewhat shaky. It will be interesting to see who prevails. Certainly FF is gearing up to challenge the fairness of the trial if CB is convicted.

Fairness if he is convicted?! Fairness and CB....what a link....But why it can't be a fair trial?! Will that be a fatal doubt?! You don't know the evidence they may have, we don't know what they may even get from the other charges/trial... we don't know what they will present against him, if they will...

 

[Mex]

Maybe they have forensically recovered text messages from 2007 stored on either a SIM card or phone they found at one of CB's premises?

They have something they are sure of; there is technology undreamed of in 2007 readily available to investigators now in 2023.
My opinion

 

[mrjitty]

As usual it is quite odd for the prosecutor to be discussing evidence that the prosecutor might have against a suspect who has not been charged with any offence.

What is the point of this exactly, apart from being unconstitutional?

 

[onemoremiletogo]

As usual it is quite odd for the prosecutor to be discussing evidence that the prosecutor might have against a suspect who has not been charged with any offence.

What is the point of this exactly, apart from being unconstitutional?

Again, I don't know German laws, but would be possible to HCW to proceed with the 2020 appeal without any previous internal scrutiny? Would be possible for him to keep being "unconstitutional" for three years without being really challenged?
Would be possible for him to keep reputation and career three years later?
They have to be really sure they have the right man. Odd if they don't have more than "announced"...

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Fairness if he is convicted?! Fairness and CB....what a link....But why it can't be a fair trial?! Will that be a fatal doubt?! You don't know the evidence they may have, we don't know what they may even get from the other charges/trial... we don't know what they will present against him, if they will...

Perhaps watch the Panorama link and you will hear FF posturing that due to the prosecutors publicity campaign, it is not possible for his client to get a fair trial.