Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

[Rhyolite]

This has been disproven by the Malaysian authorities ...

http://english.astroawani.com/news/show/pdrm-rubbish-uk-report-on-captain-zaharie-38219

Certain newspapers in the UK are sensationalizing every tidbit of information and even making outright lies. At best, the use titles for the articles that are misleading. The latest one implies that the pilots wife has dropped a bombshell when all she agreed was that her husbands voice was on an ATC recording.

I would not believe anything the UK media says, 50% of what the Malaysians say.

If the Australians say something, I am all ears.

 

[Rhyolite]

I keep trying to think of new ways or things that can help try to pinpoint where exactly the plane is down on the bottom.

One thing I thought of in another missing person case is the use of Infrared Technology that can spot heat signatures. If there was a way they could use Infrared Technology to see if any heat signatures showed up on the bottom, they may be able to spot the plane quicker because I suspect as the bodies decay, they may give off a temperature increase. But the problem is the depth is so far down in the ocean I dont think Infrared Technology can penetrate down to those depths.

At those depths and temperatures, I doubt anything would decay in the sense that any heat would be generated.

I do wonder why there is not at least one other satellite sighting of the aircraft during the hours they think it flew on. There are meteorological satellites that would sense the IR from engines, contrails and an onboard fire, there are SIGINT satellites of all types that might pick up the Inmarsat pings independent of the Inmarsat satellite. Then the usual optical "spy satellites" These systems are all recorded and could have been used to reconstruct locations.

Also there are seismic and acoustic sensors. Although some reported "finds", apparently no central collection of sensor data to try to find a point the data intersects.

 

[Rhyolite]

I dont know.

We do know the 2 passengers with same legs were pieced together so it would not surprise me if that other video of the pilot + copilot going through security was faked but I had not heard that. I may have missed that discussion.

I think what happened is that someone had two CCTV images printed out, the papers had been folded. Then when placed on a scanner page one was folded over page two or vice versa. More indicative of the haste and sloppiness of the investigation and reporting than a coverup.

 

[Rhyolite]

(snip)
Although some might try to say that using the Doppler effect is a "new technology", it has really been around since the 19th centuary. In fact the mathematical equations inherent to the Doppler effect is what
North American policeman use everyday when they point their "radar gun" at passing motorists to determine what speed the automobile is travelling at.
And as many people know thosee speeding tickets handed out using the radar gun & the Doppler effect, are good enough to stand up in a court of law & require citizens to pay hundreds of dollars in penalties.

In the textbook example of Doppler shift, imagine the confusion if the trains engineer changed the pitch of the train whistle downward as the train approached! The observer would think the train was not moving!

Likewise, the problem with Inmarsat's analysis is that they are assuming the carrier frequency of the Inmarsat terminal remains constant. If you look at the data, there is a rapid skewing of frequency that occurs at the beginning of the event. If there were a fire, the frequency could shift, that shift be misinterpreted as Doppler shift.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wow … they looked at the flight paths of 87 other planes in the air at the same time as MH370, as well as 9 previous flight paths of MH370, as one part of their satellite determinations.


(Still reading today's ATSB report ... )

 

[SouthAussie]

I was also not aware that the satellite base station tried to call the plane twice during the time it was only receiving hourly pings.

And notice that the 1st and 7th handshakes (partial handshake, in the case of the 7th one) are initiated by the plane, and indicative of electrical power-up.

After the last recorded primary radar data, at 1822, the following were recorded at the ground station:

• 1st handshake initiated by the aircraft 1825.27 hhmm.ss
• Unanswered ground to air telephone call 1839.52 hhmm.ss
• 2nd handshake initiated by the ground station 1941.00 hhmm.ss
• 3rd handshake initiated by the ground station 2041.02 hhmm.ss
• 4th handshake initiated by the ground station 2141.24 hhmm.ss
• 5th handshake initiated by the ground station 2241.19 hhmm.ss
• Unanswered ground to air telephone call 2313.58 hhmm.ss
• 6th handshake initiated by the ground station 0010.58 hhmm.ss
• 7th handshake initiated by the aircraft 0019.29 hhmm.ss
• Aircraft did not respond to log-on interrogation from the satellite earth ground station (failed handshake) 0115.56 hhmm.ss

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5243942/AE-2014-054_MH370_SearchAreasReport.pdf

 

[Intermezzo]

This whole thing is going nowhere. Either it ended up in the South Indian Ocean or landed somewhere in Asia. I think someone had to have taken control of MH370.

I am sure Indonesia would of picked that airplane up as it flew near Banda Aceh. The airport is Sultan Iskandar Muda International Airport. Now, if the airplane flew near Cocos (Keeling) Islands as it is in the South Indian Ocean. I wonder if radar at Cocos (Keeling) Islands Airport detected it.

Indonesia has reported that their military radar did not detect anything..


http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...ts-mh370-did-not-fly-indonesian-airspace.html
“Has there a single person who has confirmed the plane flew through our space? No.” Agus told The Jakarta Post.

The Indonesian Air Force has also repeatedly said that none of Indonesia’s military radars detected a flying object that could have been MH370.


http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...70-avoided-indonesian-radar-hishammuddin-says
Acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein told a press conference here that he had instructed Malaysia’s military chief to contact his Indonesian counterpart and that the latter confirmed this.

“It’s untrue,” he said. “They (Indonesia) confirmed they had no sighting of the plane,” he said at the conference broadcast live on Astro Awani.

 

[Rhyolite]

Lots of interesting (to me) tidbits in this report ^^^^.

Here are a few of them, in no particular order ...


"Accident investigations show that when fuel exhaustion has occurred, typically one engine will flame-out before the other. In the case of MH370 it is likely that one engine has flamed-out followed, within minutes, by the other engine."

"If there were no control inputs then it would be expected that eventually a spiral descent would develop. In the event of control inputs, it is possible that, depending on altitude, the aircraft could glide for 100+ NM."

"Given these observations, the final stages of the unresponsive crew/ hypoxia event type appeared to best fit the available evidence for the final period of MH370’s flight when it was heading in a generally southerly direction."

Wouldn't autopilot constitute control inputs? If an engine flames out, I would assume that the AP would correct for the yaw and the plane would straighten but burn fuel at an increasing rate.

 

[Intermezzo]

1) There are in fact two credible witness reports of fire. First the oil rig operator, second a sailor who reported recently her sighting.

2) When a flight crew encounters an IFE such as a fire, their first priority is to fly the plane, then navigate and finally to communicate. What order of preference would you wish YOUR PILOT to follow if the plane is a ball of fire and smoke?

3) There is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE that the plane flew for hours. The INMARSAT data is a RED HERRING. And if it did fly for hours, it is only due to the resilience of the multi-redundant flight systems, because the crew and passengers likely did not survive a fire. People don't make radio or phone calls when they are dead. There have been other planes that flew on with dead passengers and crew.

Vietnam investigated Oil rig guy sighting and came up empty

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/19/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane-ground-witnesses/

In fact, Vietnamese authorities dispatched aircraft last week to search for the plane, in response to McKay's report, the affiliate reported.

When the Vietnamese navy sent a plane to conduct a search, it found nothing, ABC News reported.
Vietnamese naval officer Le Minh Thanh told that network that the plane investigated the area cited by McKay, but the search came up empty.

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing...ssible-location-for-mh370-20140319-hvkjq.html March 19, 2014

Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Maldives discounted as possible location for MH370

Eyewitness reports of a possible sighting of missing Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 flying near the Maldives have been officially discounted in a statement issued by the Maldives National Defended Force.

"Based on the monitoring up to date, no indication of Flight MH370 has been observed on any military radars in the country,” the statement said.

"Furthermore, the data of radars at Maldives airports have also been analysed and shows no indication of the said flight.

When asked about the possibility of a plane of this size landing on an isolated airstrip in the atolls, Maldives National Defence Force spokesman Major Hussain Ali said this was not possible.

“If you are asking are there any landing strips outside of the main commercial airports, the answer is no,” Major Hussain said.

 

[SouthAussie]

Vietnam investigated Oil rig guy sighting and came up empty

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/19/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane-ground-witnesses/

In fact, Vietnamese authorities dispatched aircraft last week to search for the plane, in response to McKay's report, the affiliate reported.

When the Vietnamese navy sent a plane to conduct a search, it found nothing, ABC News reported.
Vietnamese naval officer Le Minh Thanh told that network that the plane investigated the area cited by McKay, but the search came up empty.

I recall reading that Duncan Steel said that the oil rig worker was hundreds of km from the flight path (I think it was over 350 km from memory), according to radar, and that the oil rig worker estimated the burning object that he saw was about 50 km away from him.

 

[2rose]

1) There are in fact two credible witness reports of fire.
First the oil rig operator, second a sailor who reported recently her sighting.

I happen to think both fire reports appear to be shared with integrity. However,
after some analysis, I have to discount the oil rig sighting as being unconnected to
MH370, because of the fact that the sighting occurred in Vietnam airspace ... & the
Vietnamese air traffic controllers are adamant that their air space has no record of:

1) a plane identifying itself as MH370
2) an unknown plane which did NOT identify itself at all
(as witnessed by the Thailand military radar does about an hour later)

3) There is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE that the plane flew for hours.
The INMARSAT data is a RED HERRING.

Since you are new to this thread, I will briefly mention once again that much like a long
distance telephone call, physical evidence exists on 4 separate computers to verify the fact
that a plane identified itself as MH370 for 6 hours in the early morning of 8 March 2014.

2 of the computers are currently unreachable:
1) the satellite computer
2) the satellite receiver on the plane.

The 2 computers on Earth that have been independantly verified are:
1) the Inmarsat computer (raw data released publicly)
2) the Australiean gound station computer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/27/w...sat-right-quest-analysis/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Once the plane went missing, the ground station in Perth checked the logs
& discovered that while the aircraft's communications systems were switched off,
the plane & the satellite still kept saying "hello" to each other, every hour.

 

[Intermezzo]

The Malaysian and Maldives eye witness sightings do not report a plane on fire or orange glow

They report a low flying plane, a loud engine sound, one sighting claims they saw it crash into the ocean but did not hear noise from impact

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-ma...aim-have-seen-plane-plunging-into-sea-1439730 MARCH 11, 2014

 

[Intermezzo]

Priority area - Orange - 60,450 km²
Medium area - Blue - 240,000 km²
Wide area - Grey - 1,120,000 km²


http://www.atsb.gov.au/mh370/mh370-definition-of-underwater-search-areas.aspx

Priority area - Orange - 60,450 km²
Medium area - Blue - 240,000 km²
Wide area - Grey - 1,120,000 km²

I am going with the the most south eastern part of that track...

 

[Intermezzo]

The main thing that has always bugged me about the pilot was the video of him when he was being searched before boarding, and he looked directly up at the cameras. Nothing concrete but it sure looked a little suspicious to me.

Wasn't that video faked/edited?
I thought it was discussed in the first few threads.

I dont know.

We do know the 2 passengers with same legs were pieced together so it would not surprise me if that other video of the pilot + copilot going through security was faked but I had not heard that. I may have missed that discussion.

I remember that discussion as well but it is way way back in one of the earlier threads..

It was reported that the video was Leaked and SAY( a Malaysia social news site) posted it on you tube on March 9th or 10th

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/cctv-said-show-mh370-pilot-212420281.html

A video in wide circulation is said to show pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah and co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 as they passed through security at Kuala Lumpur International Airport on March 8, the day the Boeing 777 vanished en route to Beijing.

This is the earliest copy of the video that we have located. The video has not been released officially, nor has anyone confirmed the video in circulation is legitimate.

This version was uploaded on March 9. We do not believe this is the original and have reached out to this uploader to ascertain where he may have found this version.

We found multiple copies of the video uploaded the following day. Most of the earliest copies were linked to Malaysian blogs, some in the Tamil language, followed by Chinese and Greek blogs and news sites. We also found some versions of the video embedded in aviation and Malaysian forums and Facebook, also dated March 10.

We continue to search for the video’s provenance. Credit: Sinthu Sinthu

 

[Intermezzo]

I could be wrong.
The discussion would have been in the first few threads.
Or maybe I read that that video wasn't even from that day, but from a different day.

BBM
I remember reading that as well
The video has no date and time stamp on it and no official report was issued that the video was from the MH370 flight on march 8

 

[2rose]

I remember reading that as well
The video has no date and time stamp on it and no official report was issued that the video was from the MH370 flight on march 8

I had not heard before that the video was faked. However I have read a
number of times that it was the first time that the 2 pilots had flown together.
So there is some corroboration that this video is true,
because they are going through the same check point on the same date.

 

[Intermezzo]

I had not heard before that the video was faked. However I have read a
number of times that it was the first time that the 2 pilots had flown together.
So there is some corroboration that this video is true,
because they are going through the same check point on the same date.

It's not that the video was faked..just that there was no official report lending credence to the video
the initial video(s) were posted on blogs and social media sites first

I had read that this was Fariq Hamid's first flight as a fully approved pilot, his first flight without a check co pilot but I had not heard this was his first time in a cockpit with Capt Shah.

If this was his first time ever flying with Shah then it lends legitimacy to the video

 

[Roselvr]

The main thing that has always bugged me about the pilot was the video of him when he was being searched before boarding, and he looked directly up at the cameras. Nothing concrete but it sure looked a little suspicious to me.

I wonder if he did that every time?
I wonder how many people look up?

There is an important reason for a may-day call even if the plane was going down. And that is to inform someone that the plane is crashing and where it is crashing so that they know where to look for survivors.

I agree flying or trying to fly a wounded plane is first priority, but a may-day call is also vitally important. It was reported that Cell Phones were turned on and/or off from that plane according to some reports so even if communication was out, the cell phones were an option if plane could fly low enough to a tower which it obviously did at one point according to 1 news report.

Also, that lady in the boat that also supposedly spotted smoke trailing a plane while she was sailing admitted to get funds for directing more "hits" on the website in which she released that information. According to what I read there. I dont consider her credible based on that.

All JMO of course.

I have read most of the thread; Kate did not say that. Took me a little bit until I got the key words right but I found the quote. Post #270 was quote by member SaltyMonkey in post #271 who is the one that said Kate only answering on the forum will lead people to believe she wanted people to go there for that. The fact is that she was only answering questions there because it was public; her words could not get misconstrued. She has been taking a beating from people there.

I agree, and all this talk of only answering questions on CF will grow suspicion you are only doing this to increase "click's" on the site.

edit - the Phuket Gazette did an article New crowd-sourced data shows Phuket yacht sighting, MH370 flight path correlate - Volunteer members of the public, one of them a flight test engineer who used flight-simulator software, compared the logged course of Ms Tee’s yacht SY Aaza Dana as it passed south of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and cross-correlated it with data from the International Maritime Organization navigation and communications satellite network, Inmarsat. -

Ms Tee provided the Gazette a copy of her report of the latest findings to the JACC (to read her report in full, click here), in which she detailed the sighting of a buoy and the glow of a “bright orange light” from beyond the horizon, which she saw after March 7.

“If the [projected] flight plan is correct, and I genuinely believe it is, since it illustrates exactly what I saw, and where and how the trajectory changed, then this flight headed off back over our track,” Ms Tee told the Gazette.

“That meant the plane headed towards military exercises where we had seen what we now believe to be a military convoy, and an isolated marine buoy that was either a submarine buoy or an acoustic target buoy (used for missile practice).

“Now, I know that big military convoys have excellent radar tracking systems and etc, and yet they didn’t see this and report it? I don’t believe that, and don’t understand why not.”

Image below shows their track in blue

 

[Intermezzo]

MH370 - Definition of Underwater Search Areas


ATSB Transport Safety Report
External Aviation Investigation
AE-2014-054
Final - 26 June 2014


http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5243942/AE-2014-054_MH370_SearchAreasReport.pdf
JUNE 26, 2014