MD MD - Frederick, WhtFem 17-45, UP7477, in steamer trunk in state park, Spondylolysis, Aug'82

[EmiliaRT007]

We can't be so sure with just the recon. Little Miss X's body has been lost since about the 60s and NCMEC could do a recon of her decades later.

I agree. I wouldn’t be surprised if they cremated her already.

 

[marsh_melancholy]

Even if they cremated her, I'm hoping someone knows where the ashes are. There's some organizations out there who can do scary good work by retrieving enough DNA for a comparison.

 

[Susikatze]

Even if they cremated her, I'm hoping someone knows where the ashes are. There's some organizations out there who can do scary good work by retrieving enough DNA for a comparison.

There are but cremains yield virtually no DNA. At least how it is today, even the most state of the art labs like Othram and Bode etc. that can work with minute amounts of degraded DNA cannot get any DNA from cremains.

Bones are a crystal framework of a mineral (apatite) that is held together by flexible bands of organic matter (collagen). The DNA is stored in the organic component, naturally. At cremation, the fire consumes all the water and collagen and leaves the mineral parts that can not burn (that is why bones crack and shrink at cremation). In modern crematories, the heat is so high that the mineral apatite even melts.
There is currently no way to extract DNA from cremains. In some rare cases the cremation was done not so well and some teeth kept a bit of structure but it is very rare.
Ive worked with ancient cremains ( Roman) and their pyres were much less heat than modern crematories and yet, there is absolutely no collagen or teeth left. So the whole scenario is way worse for modern cremains.

 

[marsh_melancholy]

Sigh. I'm about to fight tooth and nail for this case.

 

[marylandmissing]

Were the remains of this Doe cremated?

Remains were lost years ago.

 

[marylandmissing]

Sigh. I'm about to fight tooth and nail for this case.

We're getting ready to organize an event in Frederick about Maryland's halt on using forensic familial dna and the lack of a cold case unit in Frederick. It took almost two years to get dentals for a running contender for Jane Doe, and I still don't see either as exclusions on Namus. Been told by several detectives that they only work these cases "when they can" because there's no funding for cold cases.

 

[marylandmissing]

The exclusions:

Barbara Cotton
Helen Allison
Eddy Segall
Barbara McClure
Zita Gutierrez
Michele Riedenbach
Andrea Coyle
Kathleen Durst
Emma Vaughn
Rachael Garden
Sherry Eyerly
Marie Blee
Betty Roberts
Katherine Anderson
Nancy Snow
Gina Hall
Jeanne Scrima
Anne Manchester
Susan Cappel
Valerie Cuccia
Judith O'Donnell
Maureen Baca

Virginia Welch and Anne Riggins are the highest contenders for her. One detective really believed Jane Doe is Welch, but until the last two years, no dentals could ever be located on them.

 

[marylandmissing]

This may be something for @othram to look into

Othram has been contacted numerous times about this case. Unfortunately, Maryland has passed a very stringent law about the use of forensic familial dna, and has a two year backlog even upload cases (it has to be done by the FBI now).

I do know that they do have a trace amount from the steamer trunk, but every attempt to process it for dna has failed. I'm not sure about Frederick, but several Maryland police departments can only use internal labs by policy, or one in Virginia (Bodi I believe).

The last I heard about this case was they finally located dentals on Virginia Welch and Anne Riggins, but have not seen any exclusions to this since then.

 

[marylandmissing]

I'd be surprised if NCMEC hasn't attempted to ask Othram for help.

Maryland has dna laws that are not helping solve any cold cases, and logistics haven't been worked out since the law was passed. See below.

Many departments also are only allowed to use state, internal, or Bode for processing dna. Frederick also does not have a cold case unit, which is why this case, and others like Tracey Kirkpatrick (which could easily be solved with dna) have not been solved yet. Maryland Cold Cases is working on doing some protests about this.

Maryland Quietly Shelves Parts Of Genealogy Privacy Law

A WMAR-2 News investigation has learned the Maryland Department of Health quietly stopped implementing key parts of a landmark privacy law meant to protect ancestry data online.

www.wmar2news.com

 

[marylandmissing]

Checked on this case today. Anne Riggins is officially ruled out. Checking on Virginia Welch.

 

[chaddylex]

Checked on this case today. Anne Riggins is officially ruled out. Checking on Virginia Welch.

Thank you for all you do for the missing. I have been following this case for a very long time and I hope one day she finally has her name back.
I makes me sad that they lost her remains a long time ago. I also feel this Jane Doe is Virginia Welch (hopefully you can find out if she has been officially ruled out or not)

 

[marylandmissing]

Thank you for all you do for the missing. I have been following this case for a very long time and I hope one day she finally has her name back.
I makes me sad that they lost her remains a long time ago. I also feel this Jane Doe is Virginia Welch (hopefully you can find out if she has been officially ruled out or not)

Thank you for what you do as well...

I'm holding a group sleuth next month on this case and another Frederick Jane Doe case. If anyone's interested, please pm me and I will provide you the link. (Don't want to list it here as I've gotten spammers listing zoom links publically).

 

[marsh_melancholy]

In my opinion, it's between Kathy Wilcox and Virginia Welch at this point.

Glad we finally have an answer on Anne.

 

[phantomstrider]

In my opinion, it's between Kathy Wilcox and Virginia Welch at this point.

Glad we finally have an answer on Anne.

If not either of those two than she was either not reported missing or her report was lost and is not in any database.

 

[DS2021]

Kathy Wilcox

According to doe Network, she had never been to the dentist prior to her disappearance. So unless she got work done after she disappeared, I doubt its her

 

[John/Jane Doe]

According to doe Network, she had never been to the dentist prior to her disappearance. So unless she got work done after she disappeared, I doubt its her

1367DFMI - Kathy Sue Wilcox

 

[marsh_melancholy]

According to doe Network, she had never been to the dentist prior to her disappearance. So unless she got work done after she disappeared, I doubt its her

Earlier in this thread (months ago), I had speculated that Kathy probably took care of herself for an unknown amount of time after running away. The way her sister talks about her, Kathy was street smart. If she never saw a dentist and played sports, her teeth may have been need of major attention. Over time she'd probably realize she'd need professional help.

With little or no money (and not wanting her family to find her), she probably used an alias and sought treatment at a dental school. Did it all happen in one sitting? No. I think she went several times. Add on to that, her wisdom teeth wouldn't have been removed.

She resembles the composite. She played sports (football) that would contribute to spondylolysis.

There have been runaways in the 1990s and 2000s who use a fake name and graduate college. Anything's possible. Now with that being said, I don't think it was all sunshine and rainbows for Kathy. She may have had to turn to sex work, dancing/stripping, or hard manual labor. Being well-nourished would show that she was at least able to feed herself.

Now, earlier in this thread, I said that I didn't think Anne was The Cheerleader. Now we know that she's been ruled out after years of waiting. I suspected Jane Doe wasn't Anne because of the post-mortem interval, which most experts have estimated as being around 3 years (meaning that Jane Doe died around 1979). So, if Anne disappeared in May 1982... I had a hunch it wasn't her. Virginia Welch was last seen in early July 1982... and I don't think it's her either.

In 1979, and if that's to be the correct year Jane Doe lost her life, Kathy would've been 22 or 23 (depending on the month). So she also fits the age range.

I could go on and on.

All of this is too creepy to ignore. And, to date, I haven't received any follow-ups after submitting her as a possible ID. The forensic DNA laws in Maryland are very frustrating. Kathy can only be found and identified with DNA at this point.... and that's the one thing we've struggled to get from The Cheerleader.

So... yeah.

 

[marsh_melancholy]

Thank you for what you do as well...

I'm holding a group sleuth next month on this case and another Frederick Jane Doe case. If anyone's interested, please pm me and I will provide you the link. (Don't want to list it here as I've gotten spammers listing zoom links publically).

I know Anne was ruled out. Any word/update on Virginia Welch yet?

 

[marylandmissing]

I know Anne was ruled out. Any word/update on Virginia Welch yet?

Not as of two days ago.

 

[Caring1]

Katheryn Mae Quackenbush (17) was last seen 7/14/81 in Delmar, MD about 150 miles from where UID was found in Aug 1982.

PMI is listed as date of death between ‘72-‘82. I don’t see where Katheryn has been mentioned for UID and they are not excluded on either list.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov