GUILTY MI - Jonathon Hoffman, 17, shot to death, West Bloomfield, 18 May 2012

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A 74-year-old Detroit grandmother is in custody for allegedly shooting and killing her teenage grandson.
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'At this point, we just don’t know the circumstances that led up to this,' West Bloomfield police Lt. Tim Diamond said.
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Officers responded to similar domestic violence involving the teen and his grandmother in March, at the same address.
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'Officers resolved it. It was your typical teenager-parent argument,' he said.
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Similar domestic violence? Um hm. If no one was shot and killed it sounds a little different domestic violence imo.
 
michmi said:
This is what tips me off that he's not an angel. There is no "creative" student going to alternative high school in this area. Just students who don't/won't observe rules or act out in other ways (drugs?).

I just saw this grandmother on the news and it breaks my heart. It's said she purchased the gun after another notorious (around here) case-Cipriano-where the son and a friend beat most of the family with a baseball bat. Dad dead, mom and brother in physical rehab facility.

The father? Ha. Piece of work.

Grandma obviously doesn't belong in jail and she's terrified. I'm in my late 40s and I'll fight someone if I need to, but I keep a wary eye on teens when I'm out--a lot of them are just out of their minds on spice or bath salts and I can understand how terrified she must have been. I wish she had told her daughter to come and take him out of the house earlier or pressed charges when the cops came in March. Or even that she had just wounded him. Then she might have a chance at not going to jail.
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bbm

Bologna.

I went to an alternative school. I was a poor foster kid and I had my own bag of issues, along with some learning delays that caused me to become apathetic about school. I later became a 4.0 college student who has been quite successful in creative fields. Largely in part to the expertise of an alternative school.

Thomas Edison was kicked out of school, deemed unteachable and his mother was forced to homeschool him. He did alright, too.

This is why so may kids at alternative schools do not get a chance to succeed, because society has already written them off.
 
nomoresorrow said:
Just listening now to CNN/Ashley Banfield speaking about this case and played the 911 tape. WHILE this young man was on the phone to 911, begging for help and telling them he was going to die, the grandmother returned and shot him again - the shot can be heard on the 911 call. I can certainly understand shooting someone in order to protect yourself from serious and imminent harm, but the grandmother left, meaning, she was out of the way of danger. She THEN returned and continued shooting him while he was on the phone to 911. THAT is inexcusable and she deserves to be prosecuted and do prison-time IMO.
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ding, ding, ding

He was outside on the front lawn. She could have locked her doors and called 911. She chose to finish him off. That was a choice. That can be considered premeditated, because there was a distinction of time to choose that path and pursue him while he was pursuing help for himself.

If this was a younger gunman, it wouldn't even be a discussion IMO.
 
Here is a different perspective about the case: http://www.thejewishnews.com/potential-unrealized

If she was afraid of the boy, grandma should have sent him home after the earlier incident. Instead she bought a gun and took classes on how to use it. Shortly before she shot the boy she sent grandpa out to walk the dog. I don't know what happened and it could be that she was defending herself initially but she certainly wasn't defending herself against her grandson after she shot him several times and he went upstairs to call 911. She could have left the house then and waited for the police. Instead she pursued and again shot her seriously injured and unarmed grandson in the stomach while he begged for his life. I think she should go to prison for the rest of her life.
 
Was it a public alternative school or a private charter school? It's really too bad the juvie dept., or his attorney didn't push for foster care or boy's ranch instead of where he was. Even long term rehab would have been better and safer. Juvie likes to get them off probation at age 17 though, even if it' s considered unsucessful.
 
Abby Normal Again said:
bbm

Bologna.

I went to an alternative school. I was a poor foster kid and I had my own bag of issues, along with some learning delays that caused me to become apathetic about school. I later became a 4.0 college student who has been quite successful in creative fields. Largely in part to the expertise of an alternative school.

Thomas Edison was kicked out of school, deemed unteachable and his mother was forced to homeschool him. He did alright, too.

This is why so may kids at alternative schools do not get a chance to succeed, because society has already written them off.
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Do you live in this area? Because I do. I know the school. There is "creation" happening there, but it certainly isn't the kind you're talking about.
 
michmi said:
Do you live in this area? Because I do. I know the school. There is "creation" happening there, but it certainly isn't the kind you're talking about.
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Not anymore, no. Moving away was a big part of getting out of the cycle for me.
 
It's moot anyhow, that grandmother had the choice to surrender him to the state- or let his parents know that would happen if they didn't come get him.

She chose to buy a gun, learn it, and pursue a dying boy who was not currently a threat to her in the presumably short span of time her husband was on a walk.

We all have options, and we are defined by them. 74 or 24, that's not the right course of action.
 
michmi said:
Do you live in this area? Because I do. I know the school. There is "creation" happening there, but it certainly isn't the kind you're talking about.
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You may know the school, but with all due respect, that doesn't mean you also know the family or the dynamic involved.

Saint or not, prior to this incident, neither adult insisted he be removed due to his past history. If he had presented a threat, why didn't one of the adults demand he go back to his parents before this?

This woman chose to continue firing live ammunition into her grandson's already wounded body while he was on the phone with 911 begging for help. Why the overkill? Was he a threat or was he a source of resentment to her?

She deserves any punishment meted out, no matter her age.
 
if he was ever a threat to her once she had shot him she could have left the house and called 911 herself, she did not need to continue to shoot a wounded child until he was dead,
 
"He was a troubled teen, her favorite grandson, and she took him in," Sabbota said.

"In Hoffman's 911 call played during Layne's preliminary examination last summer, the teen yelled into a cellphone: "I've just been shot. My grandma shot me. I'm going to die. Help."

"A few minutes later, he tells the operator: "I got shot, shot again. Please help. Help," before his voice trails off and a woman's shouts are heard in the background."

"An officer testified at Layne's preliminary examination that when police arrived, she walked out of her home with her hands up and screamed "I murdered my grandson."

"A Glock 9mm semiautomatic handgun was found just inside the front door. Nine spent cartridge cases also were found in the house."

"Sabbota said Layne is expected to take the stand during the trial."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-grandmother-accused-of-killing-her-grandson/
 
I'm sorry, Grandma, but this is just not going to work for me. I can understand self defense after the first round of shots. But then the boy ran to another room to call 911 for help. She followed him and shot him some more, while he was on the phone with 911.

She wounded him, but then saw him in pain, pleading for help, bleeding from all over, and then she continued to shoot him some more, until he was dead.

While this is a very sad story, and no one wants to see an elderly woman on trial for murder, the facts are the facts. Self defense won't cut it. Perhaps she should think of a temporary insanity defense.

Instead of reaching out to his parents for help, she continued to let him stay there and then actually purchased a gun to protect herself. I think at the moment she purchased the gun, she decided she would kill him the next time he came at her. And she did.

And rather than chasing him into another room to shoot him more, why wasn't she on the phone calling 911 for help??? That's what any other person would do!
 
Good grief what a sad story. I wonder what ails her to do something like this.
 
I'm pretty sure if she hasn't been officially diagnosed, it will eventually turn out this is an early dementia.

Time will tell.
 
I just went to watch but I'm getting a screen that says the Kilpatrick verdict is in....none of the local stations have broken in yet but I expect they will shortly.

EDIT: I see nothing on any other MSM source indicating there is a verdict, no idea what's going on with that.
 
michmi said:
I just went to watch but I'm getting a screen that says the Kilpatrick verdict is in....none of the local stations have broken in yet but I expect they will shortly.

EDIT: I see nothing on any other MSM source indicating there is a verdict, no idea what's going on with that.
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The discussion hasn't been too active, but I am following the verdict watch in the Kwame Kilpatrick trial and will post as soon as I get confirmation.

**verdict watch**Feds Indict Former Detroit Mayor - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
March 8, 2013 at 1:35 pm

Husband: Teen shot by West Bloomfield grandma had 'problems'

By Mike Martindale
The Detroit News

Pontiac — The husband of a West Bloomfield Township woman charged with killing her teenage grandson testified Friday the boy had "problems" and argued so much with his wife that she "insulated" him from problems because he repeatedly asked her to send the teen home to his parents in Arizona.

Fred Layne, 87, took the witness stand in the jury trial of Sandra Layne, 75, charged with open murder in the May 2012 slaying of her grandson, Jonathan Hoffman, inside their West Bloomfield condominium. Police say the death stemmed from an argument between the pair. The grandmother's attorney, Jerome Sabbota, contends his elderly client loved the teenager but was in fear for her life because of his escalating drug and behavior problems, including an arrest during which he had to be tied to a hospital bed...

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130308/METRO02/303080426#ixzz2MybTCT5Z
 
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