MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[JLMcKenna83]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?list=366949&id=379297

Around 6:15 p.m., Elizabeth was supposed to come home. Family members told reporters that after she left someone called her cell phone telling her to come back to Bustamante's house.

*~*Deleted*~*

Thursday Oct. 22
Unexcused absence from school

Friday Oct. 23

Mid-day the sheriff said "written evidence" led them to Bustamante.

After questioning her, investigators said she walked them into the woods and showed them where Elizabeth's body was buried - in the grave she reportedly dug exactly one week before

 

[Prof]

Do we know how far behind the house? How wooded is "very wooded"? Too wooded for an adult to walk through? What time did EO disappear? Do we know what time AB appeared back at her house?

Excerpt from http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569338,00.html
Schulte, who had helped with the search, said the area around where the phone was transmitting signals was about one-quarter of a mile away from the county highway and in the middle of the woods. He said it is easy to get turned around and difficult to hold straight search lines because the terrain is all "ridges and valleys" along with brambles

I copied this next excerpt from the same link above back on October 24th, but the information does not remain in the article anymore (many of the original articles on this case have been changed with no tracking) however it had already been copied all over the blogosphere --sigh

Elizabeth disappeared just after she started walking home from a friend's house Wednesday night.
"There's been no contact with her since then," Cole County Sheriff Greg White told Fox News earlier Friday, before Elizabeth was found dead.
White said Elizabeth spoke with her parents on the phone before she left her friend's house.
"Her parents said she should leave and get home," he told Fox.


(Again, this does not exist on the Fox site anymore, but it is still out there)

All we really know is that Elizabeth's mother called the police around 7 pm

 

[vjlaw]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379234

The part about the family driving her to St. Louis on Wed. evening was later corrected to Sat. evening after her arrest and the juvenile authorities took her there. iirc.

 

[Prof]

[URL="http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/ne...aspx?id=379234[/URL]

JLM -- all of the news media who printed this mistake have retracted it --

IMO a BIG error on some reporter's part -- she was not taken to the hospital by her gps Wednesday night, and that is not why she missed school -- She was taken Saturday after the arrest by the Juvi authorities

 

[JLMcKenna83]

JLM -- all of the news media who printed this mistake have retracted it --

IMO a BIG error on some reporter's part -- she was not taken to the hospital by her gps Wednesday night, and that is not why she missed school -- She was taken Saturday after the arrest by the Juvi authorities

I fixed my post, but could you also fix yours, you are quoting the wrong article.

 

[Prof]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/content.aspx?id=366922
There is a video titled "10 am Press Conference with the Cole County Sheriff's" that is 13 minutes long; It's from Friday, October 23rd
Sheriff White states that the last time Elizabeth was seen was 6:00 to 6:15, and after he was asked how he came up with that time he states "interviews with the friend's family"

Of course this was before they found Elizabeth -- so that time might have come from AB

 

[not_my_kids]

I know this doesn't help much, but a few of the talking heads that I have seen on TV are saying that one of the sticking points of this case will be if she lured Elizabeth to the gravesite, since that adds a whole extra dimension. None of them feel that she was big enough to have dragged Elizabeth through the woods that far, so she must have lured her, alive, at least part way.

FWIW.

 

[MDATCA]

I know this doesn't help much, but a few of the talking heads that I have seen on TV are saying that one of the sticking points of this case will be if she lured Elizabeth to the gravesite, since that adds a whole extra dimension. None of them feel that she was big enough to have dragged Elizabeth through the woods that far, so she must have lured her, alive, at least part way.

FWIW.

I don't recall where either in the comment sections or another crime site a person who knew AB snd Elizabeth said something about their sizes being comparible. I think it was a parent or a teen that was on the school bus woth them. I will try to find it but it is going to be a longshot. Even if I took a screenshot of it there are still hundreds to search.

 

[not_my_kids]

I don't recall where either in the comment sections or another crime site a person who knew AB snd Elizabeth said something about their sizes being comparible. I think it was a parent or a teen that was on the school bus woth them. I will try to find it but it is going to be a longshot. Even if I took a screenshot of it there are still hundreds to search.

Not from anyone that they actually knew. The talking heads that CNN and HLN and NG and everybody else seems to have on to "explain" tragedy.
Purely their conjecture on sizes and weights. That's why I said FWIW (for what it's worth.)

If you can find something from someone with official or personal knowledge, that would be great. I can't find squat on this case that isn't already posted here, I officially gave up.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

*I didn't see this posted yet!

Before Alyssa Bustamante: 10 teen girl 'thrill killers'
The Missouri teen has shocked the country by killing a 9-year-old. But she's not the first female teenager to murder for kicks
Tuesday, November 24, 2009
<snipped>
The Cole County, Missouri teen allegedly dug two graves in advance, then strangled and stabbed her young victim simply to "know what it felt like" to kill. (It's unclear whether Bustamante had chosen a second victim.) As possible explanations surface, media observers and members of the community remain shocked that a young girl would commit such senseless violence. But the Bustamante incident is hardly unprecedented. Here are more cases of young female thrill killers:

The "Heavenly Creatures" Killers (1954)

Mary Bell (1968)

Brenda Spencer (1979)

Diana Zamora (1995)

Wendy Gardner (1994)

The "Vampire Clan" killings (1996)

&#8220;Collie Killers&#8221; (2006)
*More info at link!

Article:
http://www.theweek.com/article/index/103323/Before_Alyssa_Bustamante_10_teen_girl_thrill_killers

:angel:

 

[not_my_kids]

Mary Bell - the reason I believe killers are born and made. Until I heard of her, I didn't think a child could be evil. That went out the window.

 

[akashana]

One question I've been pondering is over how the searchers overlooked the unused grave. Was it open? Or had she filled it back up with dirt or brush? Why was it also not visible if it were left empty and there were searchers in the area around it?

 

[JLMcKenna83]

One question I've been pondering is over how the searchers overlooked the unused grave. Was it open? Or had she filled it back up with dirt or brush? Why was it also not visible if it were left empty and there were searchers in the area around it?

Apparently, they walked right by it several times and never even noticed it. I believe it was very well concealed.

 

[gliving]

Do we know how far behind the house? How wooded is "very wooded"? Too wooded for an adult to walk through? What time did EO disappear? Do we know what time AB appeared back at her house?

The morning she was certified to stand trial as an adult, the court met in private session with an already seated Grand Jury. We don't know any specifics as to evidence as that was all brought out at the closed meeting.

Here's the indictment from the Grand Jury:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/u...ies/Alyssa Bustamante indictment 11-18-09.pdf


There's a good time line at the link above.

 

[MDATCA]

Not from anyone that they actually knew. The talking heads that CNN and HLN and NG and everybody else seems to have on to "explain" tragedy.
Purely their conjecture on sizes and weights. That's why I said FWIW (for what it's worth.)

If you can find something from someone with official or personal knowledge, that would be great. I can't find squat on this case that isn't already posted here, I officially gave up.

That could be where I also heard it. But I remember thinking when I heard them, "come on give us something we at WS haven't already talked about". They always seem a day late on things. I know someone on a board isn't reliable. They claimed to have known both and had seen them together. I have been searching but there are so many pots and threads from over the last 7 weeks.

 

[MDATCA]

One question I've been pondering is over how the searchers overlooked the unused grave. Was it open? Or had she filled it back up with dirt or brush? Why was it also not visible if it were left empty and there were searchers in the area around it?

This has been bothering me also but we don't know the specs of the graves. IMO they weren't what we see on TV. She probably used the landscape as much as possible. I would imagine with the rain that it did not look freshly dug and probably looked like a big puddle that had been there a while maybe they even looked like something made by wildlife. Feral hogs ae a good example they make big troughs when rooting and wallowing. IDK if feral hogs are in that area but Missouri does have them.

Here are some pictures of what they do.

http://www.hogtrapper.com/image/obj205geo248pg4p24.jpg

http://www.hogtrapper.com/image/obj201geo244pg4p24.jpg

Until they release info or pictures all we can do is speculate. I don't think we will ever get the information we want. We are almosted "sleuthed out" on this case and now just wait for little bits of info so we have something more to go on. I wonder if the area is closed off or if someone could get back there and take pics. Although by now there aren't probably and signs of them. I am kind of surprised there aren't any I could find.

 

[MDATCA]

Here is a greaat example of horrible reporting. This is a new article published today. This article is so wrong that if the names weren't in there I would think it was a different case.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/143023/Girl-15-could-be-executed-for-murder

 

[2shihtzus]

I have been following this thread for awhile and not to judge KB, but where was she when 14yo MB was running around with an 18 yo CB thus becoming pregnant and giving birth to Alyssa at 15? What mother allows a 14 yo girl to "date" an 18 yo man? In my opinion, it would appear she doesn't have the best track record as far as monitoring her own children.

Is there any public documentation that states what exactly the state considered near daily therapy for Alyssa? While I do think Alyssa should be held accountable for her actions; in my opinion the system, her parents and KB failed her.

There has been some speculation as to 2007 being the "breaking point" for Alyssa as that is when she attempted suicide. According to Casenet, 2007 was indeed a bad year for the family/Alyssa

CB plead guilty and was sentenced for assault
MB had numerous court appearances for traffic violations and evictions
KB petitioned and became guardian of EA
KNP (under 21 at the time) had issues of her own with possession of alcohol and intoxication.

In my opinion, the person who would be the most "mentally fragile" in this family situation is KNP. It would seem that at a young age, all of the attention would have been directed towards MB and her children, thus growing up with a lot of resentment towards MB and her children.

- when she was 6, her 15 yo sister had a baby, and then 4 years later gave birth to twins.
- at 13/14 her mother became legal guardian to her sister's 3 children.
- Approximately one year later, her sister gives birth to another child
- at 16/17 she was moved to MO, transferred to a new high school and her mother again petitioned to be the guardian of 3 of her sister's children.
- 2 years later, her mother is now the legal guardian of all 4 of MB's children.
- At some point in the midst of this, her parents divorced and her mother remarried.

Frankly, I think the whole family needs intense therapy (especially her brothers and sister). Any hosility/animosity anyone felt towards the other must have increased immensely after Alyssa confessed and was taken into custody.

 

[Prof]

MDATCA -- yes way off and that's the first time I heard that AB quote, but CTS as this is a newspaper that looks like the UK version of the National Enquirer and actually quotes the National Enquirer in its Tiger Woods on the brink of death story

 

[KBL100]

Here is a greaat example of horrible reporting. This is a new article published today. This article is so wrong that if the names weren't in there I would think it was a different case.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/143023/Girl-15-could-be-executed-for-murder

snipped from article

Police in Jefferson City, Missouri, say she dug two graves five days before the murder then told them: “If you want to find her, start digging.”

I wonder where they got that info? I wonder if there is any truth to that statement?