MO - Mansur Ball-Bey, 18, killed by LE, St Louis, 19 Aug 2015

[katydid23]

Well, for one thing, the police can start obeying the ruling of the supreme court decision in Tennessee v. Garner, and stop shooting black people in the back.

He was not shot for being 'black.' He was shot because he ran out of a crack house that was being raided and he pointed a gun at a cop. The cop BEHIND him shot him to save his partners life.

That street has had a lot of needless violence in the past few weeks. A 93 yr old man was car jacked, a woman was shot, a store was robbed at gunpoint. The cops got a warrant and raided this house and found stolen guns and some drugs for sale. The cops were doing the noble thing. When are people going to stop giving criminals a pass when they are trying to run away from their bad deeds? This guy points a gun at the cops and they are just supposed to let him run out into the community and let it go?

 

[katydid23]

That'll be the day.

Do you think Mansur was shot because he was a black man?

 

[katydid23]

Why did the cops go to that house that Mansur was hanging out in?


Dotson said police had been at the same address to serve a search warrant about 18 months ago, and found several illegal guns.He said police have been in the area in recent days because of several shootings and the carjacking of a 93-year-old Tuskegee Airman on Sunday. It’s the same block where a toddler in July shot himself in the head after an uncle allegedly left him in a room with loaded weapons. The boy survived.“This was an area we needed to be focusing in,” Dotson said. “Certainly the good people in this neighborhood should not be plagued by the violence.”



http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_975d6843-73a1-5fae-a3da-e6c094f6a57b.html





Bedoe Harvey, 40, of nearby Bedoe’s Barbershop, said this section of town is not all bad.

“It’s not the neighborhood as a whole, it’s certain individuals,” Harvey said in defending the neighborhood. “There’s lots of poverty and everything.”

There were four homicides within a half-mile of Fountain Park this year before Wednesday’s officer-involved shooting.

On Monday, a man was fatally shot and a woman was injured in the 700 block of Aubert Avenue. Isaac Johnson, 30, was found on a sidewalk. He had been shot in the side, torso and legs. The woman told police she had gone to the area to buy drugs.

Joe Robinson, 37, who works with Better Family Life community outreach, was one of about a dozen people holding signs that read: “We must stop killing each other.”



So these cops were purposely focusing on that street because of the recent violence. And they KNEW there were stolen guns and hard drugs in that crackhouse, owned by Mansur's Auntie. They were trying to make that neighborhood safer for the locals and they needed to get those stolen guns off the street to do so.

It just hurts my heart to see the way these things are being twisted by some of these professional activists. The whole narrative of ' the college bound boy, just visiting his Auntie on the way home from work...' NOOOOOOO that is not what happened at all. His 'auntie' was not there. It is a known drug/gun gang hangout and Mansur was chilling with his friends when he saw the cops roll up with the search warrant. He took his chances by running out the back door with a gun in his hand, knowing the cops were going to be out back too. Everyone knows the cops watch the back door exit.

So what does the public want the cops to do? How are cops expected to go into a war zone like this area has been recently, and try and take violent armed gang members into custody without sometimes using lethal force? It puts them in an impossible situation. Those cops waiting out back KNOW there are stolen guns inside and they KNOW some of the gang members are going to try and get away, using guns if necessary. So they are ready for a gunfight. it would be stupid of them not to be.

 

[bluesneakers]

Do you think Mansur was shot because he was a black man?

I think most likely, yes.

 

[katydid23]

I think most likely, yes.

So the fact that he was running out the back door of a crack house that was being raided, and he had a gun in his hand, that made no difference?

If he was just standing on the back porch, no gun, no trying to run, but being black, that would get him shot?

 

[katydid23]

I think most likely, yes.

What about the other 3 black people? Why weren't they shot?


In other words, if he was shot 'because' he was black, why weren't the 3 other blacks shot too?

 

[sonjay]

What about the other 3 black people? Why weren't they shot?


In other words, if he was shot 'because' he was black, why weren't the 3 other blacks shot too?

Based on what I've seen reported, there is no evidence whatsoever that the police officer who shot the criminal with the gun is racist. I think it's racist when people decide with no evidence whatsoever that a police officer would shoot a man just because he's black.

I think the criminals with guns need to be stopped. The Jamyla Boldens and the elderly black veterans in those neighborhoods need to be protected against the violent criminals, and to do that, the police need to do their jobs. That means the cops need to investigate the crime houses that serve as pipelines to supply violent criminals with their illegal guns, and they need to apprehend the criminals who are so emboldened that they point their guns at police officers.

I think that defending "ManMan" and accusing the police officer of shooting him because he's black only serves to endanger that community even further. It's too late for Jamyla, but for Jamyla's friends to have an opportunity to grow up safe, people like ManMan and his cohorts need to be apprehended. And if they point guns at police officers while being apprehended, it's a justified shooting.

 

[bluesneakers]

What about the other 3 black people? Why weren't they shot?


In other words, if he was shot 'because' he was black, why weren't the 3 other blacks shot too?

The facts are police are more likely to shoot black people, so my opinion is he was probably shot because he was black and/or shot because he wasn't white. But just because cops are more likely to shoot and kill black people it doesn't mean they try to kill every black person they encounter.

eta:

However, black men accounted for 40 percent of the 60 unarmed deaths, even though they make up just 6 percent of the U.S. population. The Post's analysis shows that black men were seven times more likely than white men to die by police gunfire while unarmed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/08/black-and-unarmed/

and

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/10/8382457/police-shootings-racism

 

[katydid23]

The facts are police are more likely to shoot black people, so my opinion is he was probably shot because he was black and/or shot because he wasn't white. But just because cops are more likely to shoot and kill black people it doesn't mean they try to kill every black person they encounter.

eta:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/08/black-and-unarmed/

and

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/10/8382457/police-shootings-racism

Have you looked at the crime rate statistics by race? Any chance that the police spend more time in the HIGH CRIME AREAS which is quite often minority neighborhoods?

 

[katydid23]

The facts are police are more likely to shoot black people, so my opinion is he was probably shot because he was black and/or shot because he wasn't white. But just because cops are more likely to shoot and kill black people it doesn't mean they try to kill every black person they encounter.

eta:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/08/black-and-unarmed/

and

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/10/8382457/police-shootings-racism

These statistics say NOTHING about this specific case. NOTHING at all.

Why do I say that? Because in this specific case the cops were in a high crime, violent neighborhood trying to detain and arrest 5 people inside a crack house. ALL OF THEM were black. The choice whether to shoot or not shoot was not based upon racial preferences. The suspect ran from police and resisted imminent arrest, pointed a stolen gun at an officer, and that officers partner shot him in defense.

Saying he was shot for 'being black' just totally overlooks those specifics. He was shot because he tried to flee while pointing a weapon at a cop. He would have been shot no matter what race he was.

 

[katydid23]

However, black men accounted for 40 percent of the 60 unarmed deaths, even though they make up just 6 percent of the U.S. population. The Post's analysis shows that black men were seven times more likely than white men to die by police gunfire while unarmed.
==============================================================================


Why do you think that is? Is that statistic due to police being racist? Is that the implication?


Because here is another Washington Post report which shows that blacks are eight times more likely to 'offend' violently than whites:


It is true that the rate of black homicide victims and offenders were disproportionately represented compared to the general population, the 2011 BJS report found. The black victimization rate (27.8 per 100,000) was six times higher than the white victimization rate (4.5 per 100,000). Black offending rate (34.4 per 100,000) was almost eight times higher than whites (4.5 per 100,000), according to the report.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...percent-of-blacks-are-killed-by-other-blacks/



So maybe there is a reason that blacks are shot 7x more often than whites by arresting officers. If we see that blacks have 8x the chance of being violent offenders, then maybe that has an effect upon that situation.

 

[katydid23]

The facts are police are more likely to shoot black people, so my opinion is he was probably shot because he was black and/or shot because he wasn't white. But just because cops are more likely to shoot and kill black people it doesn't mean they try to kill every black person they encounter.

eta:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/08/black-and-unarmed/

and

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/10/8382457/police-shootings-racism

I am not sure that the statistics above are reliable.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...ons-cops-shooting-black-men-article-1.2030545

ProPublica acknowledges that the data on justifiable police killings are “terribly incomplete. . . . Vast numbers of the country’s 17,000 police departments don’t file fatal police shooting reports at all.”

But they don't make it clear that literally only a couple hundred police departments (217 in 2012, just 1.2% of all the departments in the country) report these numbers.

Even worse, the very few police departments that do report are predominately urban areas, which tend to have much higher concentrations of blacks. This skews the numbers to over-represent black deaths.

 

[sonjay]

However, black men accounted for 40 percent of the 60 unarmed deaths, even though they make up just 6 percent of the U.S. population. The Post's analysis shows that black men were seven times more likely than white men to die by police gunfire while unarmed.
==============================================================================

Why do you think that is? Is that statistic due to police being racist? Is that the implication?

Because here is another Washington Post report which shows that blacks are eight times more likely to 'offend' violently than whites:

It is true that the rate of black homicide victims and offenders were disproportionately represented compared to the general population, the 2011 BJS report found. The black victimization rate (27.8 per 100,000) was six times higher than the white victimization rate (4.5 per 100,000). Black offending rate (34.4 per 100,000) was almost eight times higher than whites (4.5 per 100,000), according to the report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...percent-of-blacks-are-killed-by-other-blacks/

So maybe there is a reason that blacks are shot 7x more often than whites by arresting officers. If we see that blacks have 8x the chance of being violent offenders, then maybe that has an effect upon that situation.

Blacks commit crimes at rate eight times that of whites.

When you take that into account, white criminals are actually more likely to be shot than black criminals.

There's a reason I don't believe that cops are going around shooting black people because they're black. Because that notion is simply untrue.

 

[sonjay]

Police shootings do appear to have a racial basis, but in the opposite direction from what the media hysterics would lead one to expect:

"In all three experiments using a more externally valid research method than previous studies, we found that participants took longer to shoot Black suspects than White or Hispanic suspects. In addition, where errors were made, participants across experiments were more likely to shoot unarmed White suspects than unarmed Black or Hispanic suspects, and were more likely to fail to shoot armed Black suspects than armed White or Hispanic suspects. In sum, this research found that participants displayed significant bias favoring Black suspects in their decisions to shoot."

Source:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11292-012-9163-y
Study conducted by Washington State University-Spokane

And while everyone is freaking out over a non-existent racial police shooting epidemic, black-on-black crime continues to overwhelm urban neighborhoods, and more little black girls will be killed by violent criminals. Is this really what we want?

 

[mikkismom]

Based on what I've seen reported, there is no evidence whatsoever that the police officer who shot the criminal with the gun is racist. I think it's racist when people decide with no evidence whatsoever that a police officer would shoot a man just because he's black.

I think the criminals with guns need to be stopped. The Jamyla Boldens and the elderly black veterans in those neighborhoods need to be protected against the violent criminals, and to do that, the police need to do their jobs. That means the cops need to investigate the crime houses that serve as pipelines to supply violent criminals with their illegal guns, and they need to apprehend the criminals who are so emboldened that they point their guns at police officers.

I think that defending "ManMan" and accusing the police officer of shooting him because he's black only serves to endanger that community even further. It's too late for Jamyla, but for Jamyla's friends to have an opportunity to grow up safe, people like ManMan and his cohorts need to be apprehended. And if they point guns at police officers while being apprehended, it's a justified shooting.

Post of the Day!!!

 

[mikkismom]

Check out this Mama Bear. She GETS it. (IMO)

Black mom becomes viral star with rant at Black Lives Matter protesters for rallying over death of '****s and criminals' instead of black on black crime


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-instead-black-black-crime.html#ixzz3jgkyAutx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


R.I.P. Jamyla

ETA: Language warning!

 

[katydid23]

Police shootings do appear to have a racial basis, but in the opposite direction from what the media hysterics would lead one to expect:

"In all three experiments using a more externally valid research method than previous studies, we found that participants took longer to shoot Black suspects than White or Hispanic suspects. In addition, where errors were made, participants across experiments were more likely to shoot unarmed White suspects than unarmed Black or Hispanic suspects, and were more likely to fail to shoot armed Black suspects than armed White or Hispanic suspects. In sum, this research found that participants displayed significant bias favoring Black suspects in their decisions to shoot."

Source:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11292-012-9163-y
Study conducted by Washington State University-Spokane

And while everyone is freaking out over a non-existent racial police shooting epidemic, black-on-black crime continues to overwhelm urban neighborhoods, and more little black girls will be killed by violent criminals. Is this really what we want?

One of my son's best friends is on the LAPD gang unit. He is a black officer so sometimes things are pretty rough for him in the inner city neighborhoods. One morning he stopped for breakfast on way to work, in regular clothes. But he has eaten there in uniform at lunchtime, so he realized that some of the locals were looking and whispering. He was feeling uncomfortable and thinking it was a mistake to go there alone. A table of 4 young men were staring at him from across the aisle and he nodded at them but they just stared back. Then they stood up and walked over and asked to speak to him 'privately.' He was a bit nervous and didn't know where exactly that meant. But he said sure, lets sit down and they led him to a bigger table in back corner.

He was shocked and elated to hear these local young men THANK HIM for coming to their neighborhood and trying to clear the gangs out. They did have some complainst and thought they were stopped too many times and frisked unfairly. but they said they understood why that was happening. And they blames the local gangs for most of that. They said they understood that since 10% of the local youth were carrying guns and shooting and robbing, that the cops were going to be tough on the others that were pulled over.
They also told him that many of the peaceful residents carried weapons just to protect themselves. And they wished there was a way for the cops to know the difference between a family man coming home from work, carrying a weapon to protect himself from carjackings etc.

Anyway it was a really productive talk for them and they told him that they thought BlackLivesMatter was just making things worse by protecting the ****s and making cops hesitant to root them out.

 

[CoolJ]

Blacks commit crimes at rate eight times that of whites.

When you take that into account, white criminals are actually more likely to be shot than black criminals.

There's a reason I don't believe that cops are going around shooting black people because they're black. Because that notion is simply untrue.

Wrong. They may be convicted at a rate eight times higher but to say they commit at that rate is laughable. Plenty of white collar criminals out there walking scot free. In fact this planet is run by white collar criminals if you hadn't noticed yet. JMO

 

[sonjay]

Wrong. They may be convicted at a rate eight times higher but to say they commit at that rate is laughable. Plenty of white collar criminals out there walking scot free. In fact this planet is run by white collar criminals if you hadn't noticed yet. JMO

I thought it was clear that we were discussing violent crimes. Sorry for confusing you.

 

[sonjay]

One of my son's best friends is on the LAPD gang unit. He is a black officer so sometimes things are pretty rough for him in the inner city neighborhoods. One morning he stopped for breakfast on way to work, in regular clothes. But he has eaten there in uniform at lunchtime, so he realized that some of the locals were looking and whispering. He was feeling uncomfortable and thinking it was a mistake to go there alone. A table of 4 young men were staring at him from across the aisle and he nodded at them but they just stared back. Then they stood up and walked over and asked to speak to him 'privately.' He was a bit nervous and didn't know where exactly that meant. But he said sure, lets sit down and they led him to a bigger table in back corner.

He was shocked and elated to hear these local young men THANK HIM for coming to their neighborhood and trying to clear the gangs out. They did have some complainst and thought they were stopped too many times and frisked unfairly. but they said they understood why that was happening. And they blames the local gangs for most of that. They said they understood that since 10% of the local youth were carrying guns and shooting and robbing, that the cops were going to be tough on the others that were pulled over.
They also told him that many of the peaceful residents carried weapons just to protect themselves. And they wished there was a way for the cops to know the difference between a family man coming home from work, carrying a weapon to protect himself from carjackings etc.

Anyway it was a really productive talk for them and they told him that they thought BlackLivesMatter was just making things worse by protecting the ****s and making cops hesitant to root them out.

Wow. I bet that conversation made that officer's day! Thanks for sharing it. Peaceful, law-abiding black people, just like peaceful, law-abiding white people and peaceful, law-abiding people of every color, know these things and appreciate what the police do. Peaceful, law-abiding people just aren't as vocal and in-your-face as the violent "protesters" who are out killing, robbing, assaulting, looting, and rioting. Police don't hear that appreciation nearly enough.