musings on Hailey- have any?

[Tugela]

The only thing is...Clint and Naomi have been cleared by LE of knowing anything of what happened to Hailey. I THINK they did have polygraphs..or according to Naomis grandmother at least. Im not discounting the fact someone CLOSE to Clint could be involved..i just dont think he was and for sure i dont think his mother is involved

I dont see how they could be cleared though, they were on the scene by their own account. There is nothing that I'm aware of that excludes them, particularly since LE don't have a clue what happened to HD in first place. How can they possibly exclude them???

They did take polys many months later, according to the sheriff. By then it is too late though and it means nothing, they should have been given them at the same time BD and SA were. There was no reason not to have done it, there was enough reason to have suspicion based on what we now know, and they supposedly had no objection.

Besides from not giving them one at the beginning, why would LE proceed to do it many months later for no apparent reason? If LE were so confident that they were not involved inititially, why do it afterwards? It doesnt make sense. If there was a reasonable explanation for all of this I would be saying OK, but there isn't. To be perfectly frank, I have strong doubts that they were being truthfull when they claimed to have not been asked, IMO they evaded while BD/SA and that side agreed, and only agreed many months later under pressure, in spite of what we were told. The other alternative is that the local LE is horrendously incompetent, which is possible I guess.

 

[Tugela]

Clint was home with his infant and his 5 yr old stepson and his girlfriend. He also had a very bad back and could barely walk. He was a very loving father who Hailey ADORED.

Apparently he was alone at home when HD dissappeared, his mother had taken the GF shopping. As far as his back is concerned, we only have his word for that. The "bad back" was an unusual event that accounted for him being there that day. The bad back just happened to be on the first work day after the christmas break. Uh huh. I'm doubtfull about the bad back. So just like SA, he has an unusual day, mostly unaccounted for independently. At least with SA we have a reasonable idea where he was.

Likewise for HD's attitude towards him. That is what his family and himself say, I haven't seen anyone else say that. He claimed to have moved there specifically to be close to her, then, a few days after she dissappears, he moves out?? His mother implies that there was some sort of latent sexual tension going on with SA, and that "they" tried to get HD out of there, but CD apparently doesn't know anything about that. Really?? That doesnt sound much like a relationship as close as they would have us believe.

I have no idea if he is involved or not, but I don't think that he and his family are being totally up front about everything that happened.

 

[Tugela]

And, imo, she would never have walked over to MB's if she had not received a reply to her text. I know 13 yr old girls. They would keep texting or calling or would call another friend and double check. It is very 'uncool' to text a friend, get no reply,and then go on over to their house. I don't think she would have done that. And another HUGE red flag is the lack of cell usage that afternoon. Has anyone ever known a 13 yr old on school vacation that could make ONE TEXT and that is it, for the entire afternoon? I don't believe it. If she was making her plans for the sleepover she would have done more than one measly text, imo.

The context of the text message has been misinterpreted IMO. I don't think HD was asking where MB was, she was asking why MB wasn't at the Dunn home (ie at a prearranged meeting there). It is completely plausible that if they were going to meet at BD's house for some "unapproved" purpose, the arrival of SA home unexpectedly would prompt HD to leave at short notice and go and find MB. There would have been no clear or long term plan, so she would not have taken much with her. HD is portrayed as an aggressive girl, one who leads rather than the other way around. MB's mother appears to think that the Dunn household is an undesirable place for her daughter to hang out, in a large part due to the lack of supervision. So, IMO MB would have been being led by HD, and she may not have shown up because she had reservations about whatever they had planned. Good kids are like that, when they are peer pressured into something they perhaps are not comfortable with, they will look the other way and "forget" to show up (to avoid later confrontation).

That scenario is plausible IMO. What doesn't make sense is HD asking out of the blue (and only once) a non-informative question. There has to be more, or she would have said more. The scenario where HD asks this question to set up a sleepover is ridiculous IMO. We know where BD and SA were at the time the text was sent, so it had to have been HD, possibly DD or at a stretch CD. And what would be the point of it, with no follow up? I think the first scenario I proposed is much more plausible. The text message alone tells us with a high degree of confidence that SA's account of the day (in so far as HD is concerned) is largely accurate.

 

[ozazure]

Maybe they had the polygraphs done later to help clarify the timeline? Clint's recounting of the events on Nancy Grace early in the piece is confused as well. I need to go and listen to him on Peter Hyatt and see what he says there. I think Clint's confusion is due to his drug use. I also have the impression that he is deferential to Billie, and this combined with prioritising getting high, is why he only was briefly brave enough to speak out about his fears for Hailey at Shawn's hands. It may suit him psychologically to not know what happened to her, than live with the consequences of not keeping Hailey safe - providing her a home fulltime away from Shawn. And his continued neglect to fight for justice for her now. Just get high and not think about it.

 

[katydid23]

The context of the text message has been misinterpreted IMO. I don't think HD was asking where MB was, she was asking why MB wasn't at the Dunn home (ie at a prearranged meeting there). It is completely plausible that if they were going to meet at BD's house for some "unapproved" purpose, the arrival of SA home unexpectedly would prompt HD to leave at short notice and go and find MB. There would have been no clear or long term plan, so she would not have taken much with her. HD is portrayed as an aggressive girl, one who leads rather than the other way around. MB's mother appears to think that the Dunn household is an undesirable place for her daughter to hang out, in a large part due to the lack of supervision. So, IMO MB would have been being led by HD, and she may not have shown up because she had reservations about whatever they had planned. Good kids are like that, when they are peer pressured into something they perhaps are not comfortable with, they will look the other way and "forget" to show up (to avoid later confrontation).

That scenario is plausible IMO. What doesn't make sense is HD asking out of the blue (and only once) a non-informative question. There has to be more, or she would have said more. The scenario where HD asks this question to set up a sleepover is ridiculous IMO. We know where BD and SA were at the time the text was sent, so it had to have been HD, possibly DD or at a stretch CD. And what would be the point of it, with no follow up? I think the first scenario I proposed is much more plausible. The text message alone tells us with a high degree of confidence that SA's account of the day (in so far as HD is concerned) is largely accurate.

bbm

sorry, but I don't agree. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

Why would she tell Shawn she was going to sleepover at MB's if there was no plan to do so?

And how do you get to the assumption that it WAS Hailey who wrote that text? Just because you think you know where SA and BD are, then it couldn't be one of them? And why the heck would DD text MB? ???

 

[katydid23]

The context of the text message has been misinterpreted IMO. I don't think HD was asking where MB was, she was asking why MB wasn't at the Dunn home (ie at a prearranged meeting there). It is completely plausible that if they were going to meet at BD's house for some "unapproved" purpose, the arrival of SA home unexpectedly would prompt HD to leave at short notice and go and find MB. There would have been no clear or long term plan, so she would not have taken much with her. HD is portrayed as an aggressive girl, one who leads rather than the other way around. MB's mother appears to think that the Dunn household is an undesirable place for her daughter to hang out, in a large part due to the lack of supervision. So, IMO MB would have been being led by HD, and she may not have shown up because she had reservations about whatever they had planned. Good kids are like that, when they are peer pressured into something they perhaps are not comfortable with, they will look the other way and "forget" to show up (to avoid later confrontation).

That scenario is plausible IMO. What doesn't make sense is HD asking out of the blue (and only once) a non-informative question. There has to be more, or she would have said more. The scenario where HD asks this question to set up a sleepover is ridiculous IMO. We know where BD and SA were at the time the text was sent, so it had to have been HD, possibly DD or at a stretch CD. And what would be the point of it, with no follow up? I think the first scenario I proposed is much more plausible. The text message alone tells us with a high degree of confidence that SA's account of the day (in so far as HD is concerned) is largely accurate.

BBM

where did that come from? Was there ever any evidence that Hailey said that MB was meeting her at Hailey's house? I never heard anything like that.

And I have seen many 13 yr olds going to a friends for a sleepover. I have never seen one plan to walk over for the whole night, and not take a few prized possessions/ She would have taken some money in case they went to eat or the movies etc. / she would have taken her hoodie as it was December. / And I stand by my contention that she would not have left without FIRST getting confirmation from one of the friends as to what their plans were.

If she was going to spend the night at MB's, then imo, she planned on seeing some boys during that time too. They would have planned to see some other friends somewhere like at Burger King or somewhere. So ashe would have been prepared for that. And I think she would have had some 'cuter' clothes with her too. imo She liked boys, as any 13 yr old girl tends to do.

 

[katydid23]

Apparently he was alone at home when HD dissappeared, his mother had taken the GF shopping. As far as his back is concerned, we only have his word for that. The "bad back" was an unusual event that accounted for him being there that day. The bad back just happened to be on the first work day after the christmas break. Uh huh. I'm doubtfull about the bad back. So just like SA, he has an unusual day, mostly unaccounted for independently. At least with SA we have a reasonable idea where he was.

Likewise for HD's attitude towards him. That is what his family and himself say, I haven't seen anyone else say that. He claimed to have moved there specifically to be close to her, then, a few days after she dissappears, he moves out?? His mother implies that there was some sort of latent sexual tension going on with SA, and that "they" tried to get HD out of there, but CD apparently doesn't know anything about that. Really?? That doesnt sound much like a relationship as close as they would have us believe.

I have no idea if he is involved or not, but I don't think that he and his family are being totally up front about everything that happened.

His back problems were an ongoing issue, and it makes sense for a landscaper to have back problems. Others spoke of his back problems, not just him.

His reason for moving out was that his gf was there on a county welfare program and was not supposed to be living with him to qualify for the housing program. he did not 'choose' to move out.

As for the relationship being close or not, I believe several people said she was very close to her father. And I can easily believe that she would not tell her Dad about the shady things her sketchy roommate was doing to scare her. She was 13 and she knew exactly what kind of family drama that would create.

I never told my dad that my live-in uncle was raping me because I did not want my dad to kill my uncle. And my 10 yr old brain thought he probably would do so if he ever found out/

 

[ozazure]

There is no official word on the text message. Mary Beth's mother collaborates the content and time of the message in this article, but she is not directly quoted and I must say I do not have a lot of faith in the local media or LE - like the comments about the child *advertiser censored* location etc. So who knows where the phone was that sent that message, if the pings from both SA's phone and this cellphone are in obviously different locations and the accurate times. We know how shifty the times are in the timeline.

Also Billie's timeline has Shawn home in CCity at 3pm yet the distance between CC and Big Spring is 47 minutes on google. I doubt he was 20 minutes outside CCity and pinging on the Big Spring tower near his mother's.

 

[sreshowtime]

oh me oh my

 

[For The Kids]

They did take polys many months later, according to the sheriff. By then it is too late though and it means nothing, they should have been given them at the same time BD and SA were. There was no reason not to have done it, there was enough reason to have suspicion based on what we now know, and they supposedly had no objection.

.

Why was there enough reason to have suspicion based on what we now know?I can say personally for me..whoever i do think was involved..i have never thought for a second that Clint was.

 

[For The Kids]

Apparently he was alone at home when HD dissappeared, his mother had taken the GF shopping. As far as his back is concerned, we only have his word for that. The "bad back" was an unusual event that accounted for him being there that day. The bad back just happened to be on the first work day after the christmas break. Uh huh. I'm doubtfull about the bad back. So just like SA, he has an unusual day, mostly unaccounted for independently. At least with SA we have a reasonable idea where he was.

Likewise for HD's attitude towards him. That is what his family and himself say, I haven't seen anyone else say that. He claimed to have moved there specifically to be close to her, then, a few days after she dissappears, he moves out?? His mother implies that there was some sort of latent sexual tension going on with SA, and that "they" tried to get HD out of there, but CD apparently doesn't know anything about that. Really?? That doesnt sound much like a relationship as close as they would have us believe.

I have no idea if he is involved or not, but I don't think that he and his family are being totally up front about everything that happened.

Billie herself has said that Clint and Hailey were very close to one another especially after the seperation. As for him moving the first time he had no choice IIRC..that house was meant to be for Naomi and he wasnt meant to be living there and ofc when Hailey went missing it came out he was there and Naomi apparently got into trouble.

 

[For The Kids]

His back problems were an ongoing issue, and it makes sense for a landscaper to have back problems. Others spoke of his back problems, not just him.

His reason for moving out was that his gf was there on a county welfare program and was not supposed to be living with him to qualify for the housing program. he did not 'choose' to move out.

As for the relationship being close or not, I believe several people said she was very close to her father. And I can easily believe that she would not tell her Dad about the shady things her sketchy roommate was doing to scare her. She was 13 and she knew exactly what kind of family drama that would create.

I never told my dad that my live-in uncle was raping me because I did not want my dad to kill my uncle. And my 10 yr old brain thought he probably would do so if he ever found out/

Didnt Shawn threaten Clint? that alone could be a reason why Hailey didnt tell her dad as she didnt want to risk him getting hurt. For the record I 100% believe Connie and feel desperately sorry for her.

 

[believe09]

His back problems were an ongoing issue, and it makes sense for a landscaper to have back problems. Others spoke of his back problems, not just him.

His reason for moving out was that his gf was there on a county welfare program and was not supposed to be living with him to qualify for the housing program. he did not 'choose' to move out.

As for the relationship being close or not, I believe several people said she was very close to her father. And I can easily believe that she would not tell her Dad about the shady things her sketchy roommate was doing to scare her. She was 13 and she knew exactly what kind of family drama that would create.

I never told my dad that my live-in uncle was raping me because I did not want my dad to kill my uncle. And my 10 yr old brain thought he probably would do so if he ever found out/

I am so sorry for what you went through katyd. ((hugs))

 

[Tugela]

Billie herself has said that Clint and Hailey were very close to one another especially after the seperation. As for him moving the first time he had no choice IIRC..that house was meant to be for Naomi and he wasnt meant to be living there and ofc when Hailey went missing it came out he was there and Naomi apparently got into trouble.

You don't get into trouble within days, that sort of thing, an eviction, takes a long time. He left because he wanted to.

 

[Tugela]

Didnt Shawn threaten Clint? that alone could be a reason why Hailey didnt tell her dad as she didnt want to risk him getting hurt. For the record I 100% believe Connie and feel desperately sorry for her.

Again, we only have the word of CD and his clan on that (IIRC, that story came from his mother). No charges were filed and no corroboration as far as I know. I have no doubt that whatever happened, if it happened, would have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[Tugela]

bbm

sorry, but I don't agree. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

Why would she tell Shawn she was going to sleepover at MB's if there was no plan to do so?

And how do you get to the assumption that it WAS Hailey who wrote that text? Just because you think you know where SA and BD are, then it couldn't be one of them? And why the heck would DD text MB? ???

Because she had to give a reason why she wasn't going to be around and she didn't want him to know the real reason for her leaving. That is not an unusual thing, teens do that all the time.

 

[katydid23]

You don't get into trouble within days, that sort of thing, an eviction, takes a long time. He left because he wanted to.

That's not true. If a woman is receiving housing aid because of her kids, and they find out a man is living there, she can be evicted. They sometimes warn her first and give her the chance to rectify the situation. All that can happen in one short day.

How do you know he left because he 'wanted to'? Do you know what is in his head?

 

[katydid23]

Because she had to give a reason why she wasn't going to be around and she didn't want him to know the real reason for her leaving. That is not an unusual thing, teens do that all the time.

But she told him something that can easily be checked up on. Teens do not usually do that if it is a lie they are using as their alibi.

I don't think she ever told him that story at all though. I think he made it up and then made the bogus text. imo

 

[Tugela]

His back problems were an ongoing issue, and it makes sense for a landscaper to have back problems. Others spoke of his back problems, not just him.

His reason for moving out was that his gf was there on a county welfare program and was not supposed to be living with him to qualify for the housing program. he did not 'choose' to move out.

As for the relationship being close or not, I believe several people said she was very close to her father. And I can easily believe that she would not tell her Dad about the shady things her sketchy roommate was doing to scare her. She was 13 and she knew exactly what kind of family drama that would create.

I never told my dad that my live-in uncle was raping me because I did not want my dad to kill my uncle. And my 10 yr old brain thought he probably would do so if he ever found out/

If he had been working hard the previous couple of days, that might be believable, but he hadn't been. It was the first work day after the christmas holidays.

People have said that she was close to her father, meaning that she wasn't distant. Obsessively close is a different thing. In his interviews CD has portrayed himself as obsesively close, but there is nothing to indicate that HD behaved the same way. What we do know is that HD spent a lot of time at CDs house to play with the baby. We also know that there was a period in HD's life where she was living with friends of the family, not HD or CD. What was the deal with that? If the parents were separated, and she was as close as everyone thinks, then surely issues in one household would mean that she would go and live with the other for a period.

As far as abuse allegations, if she was so afraid of telling her father (no evidence of that) for fear of him getting hurt, then why tell the grandmother? And why would the grandmother not tell the father? She wouldn't be afraid and apparently was not. She claimed that that they were trying to get HD out of there, but CD didn't seem to know anything about that. That whole story simply doesnt add up, IMO the allegations of abuse were made up by the GM. If the GM's allegations are true, then it implies that the relationship between CD and HD wasn't nearly as close that everyone thinks, and the GM was well aware of that. She just can't say it now that HD is missing.

I don't doubt that HD didn't like SA, she would have seen him as an intruder in her family and it would have taken her a long time to come to terms with it, but beyond that, I think the GM just extrapolated and exaggerated.

You can't have it both ways, the inconsistancy means that it is one way or the other.

 

[Tugela]

But she told him something that can easily be checked up on. Teens do not usually do that if it is a lie they are using as their alibi.

I don't think she ever told him that story at all though. I think he made it up and then made the bogus text. imo

We know from MB's mother that she didnt want her daughter there because in the past, on sleepovers, the girls had in fact been running around town. If what MB's mother says in true, then it means that the level of supervision in BD's household was very low or non-existant. Based on what we have heard about BD and from what we have seen of her character on TV performances, that would not surprise me at all.

The kids would have had to give a cover story but it would never be checked on and they knew it.

You should not make the mistake of thinking HD would do what your daughter would do, because I'm pretty sure that HD wasn't raised in the same way your daughter would have been.