My Theory

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By the way I would like to clarify my stance on the manhole theory a bit. I've read some of my posts and it appears I'm being overly critical of the theory, when in fact.... I am actually. I just find it so hard to swallow that supporters are jumping on a theory with such vigor as the WMPD jumped on the thought that the discovery site was the scene of the crime. In fact there is more evidence that the discovery site was the scene of the crime then the manhole theory as at least the bodies were found there. Don't get me wrong I in no way believe the discovery site was the scene of the crime. While the manhole is a nice little theory, thats all it is and is no more likely than one of a million other scenarios. CR this isn't a knock in the slightest, it's just I'm seeing way too many people buy into it completely with little regard for other scenarios. Also I think it does do a disservice to the investigation (even though there officially isn't one) that so many supporters are trying to tie one suspect into one scenario. While I agree completely Hobbs is the logical suspect, there is scant evidence to support it (at least that we know of). Again I do like the theory (flaws and all), but I just feel supporters need to be a bit more critical of theories and getting tunnel vision of one suspect. Thanks for letting me rant that a bit, at least I can do that here without getting banned.
 
I Must Break You said:
This is also a good discussion that puts a bit of a damper on the manhole theory... Or at least the rebar patterns. I knew I had read this discussion somewhere before but just couldn't remember which forum it was in.
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Having only recently started digging thru all the info on this case I still find myself sitting on the fence even though I believe there should have been a new trial. Even with a new trial, due to all the different interpretations of the evidence and problems with testimony, timelines and autopsy determinations; I don’t believe my doubts would be erased. At this point I don’t even know how these children died, drowning or trauma. I’m hoping more definitive and concrete new evidence will be revealed by the defense. And even if that doesn’t show exactly how they died maybe solid proof would point to who committed this horrible crime.
 
I don't believe in the manhole theory myself but I have no problem with anyone who does.There are quite a few things I disagree with on the supporters side.

The main thing for me is that we agree that the three convicted were not the ones who murdered the little boys.
 
Compassionate Reader said:
IIRC, yes. I'd check, but I can't seem to get on the BB right now.
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I'm just trying to imagine your theory CR. If he had tried to put the jeans on Stevie, but found it too difficult so he decides to undress the other boys, wouldnt the jeans be unbuttoned/zipped? I'm not trying to be nit picky and I realize you may have the theory right, while maybe not some of the details, but I was just trying to visualize this in my head. Thanks for the info!
 
SheBoss said:
I'm just trying to imagine your theory CR. If he had tried to put the jeans on Stevie, but found it too difficult so he decides to undress the other boys, wouldnt the jeans be unbuttoned/zipped? I'm not trying to be nit picky and I realize you may have the theory right, while maybe not some of the details, but I was just trying to visualize this in my head. Thanks for the info!
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It just sounds like an awful lot of doing this and doing that by the perp/s. IDK, if I'd done something this hideous, I'd have probably left the kids in the manhole, if that's indeed where they were. Just seems like a LOT of trouble to go to--tying them up, hauling them up the ladder, then hauling them 200 yards away, trying to change their clothes. IIRC, the theory here is that TH tied them up while down in the manhole, then took them to the discovery site, then did the clothing thing--in that order? Wouldn't he have had to untie them and then tie them back in order to get the clothes off--or do I have the chronological order incorrect???
 
RTC said:
What if TH went out looking for them and chased them down with the car. Maybe he got close enough to the bikes just to scare them and the kids overreacted and fell head over handlebars and landed somewhere hard. He panicked thought the kids were dead and decided to hide them so he wouldnt have to admit what happened.
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{Above post respectfully 'snipped' by smart blonde}

This idea of yours is really interesting to me, because I've been wondering why TH seems so evasive and vague in the interview he (finally) gave to the police in 2007. I feel he is being less than truthful in his answers, and would love to know what it is he may be trying to hide regarding his vehicle at the time the murders occurred. I was thinking maybe he was worried that they would track down the car and find evidence that the boys dead bodies had been in it? I don't know, but something doesn't seem 'right'.

Here, is a transcribed portion of the interview I'm referencing:

~Officer: How many, how many vehicles did you own at this time?

~TH: I know of two, but it could have been three, because I liked to work on old trucks, and I had, I believe I had, one at that time. I like to restore trucks and sell them.

~Officer: uh hmm

~TH: I think I had one, I know we had two vehicles.

~Officer: The other two vehicles that you drove?

~TH: Correct.

~Officer: And do you remember what they were?

 ~TH: No, not really. No... not really.

 ~Officer: Did both you and Pam drive daily?

~TH: Yes. I had drove one to work. Trying to think of what I drove to work. It was a long time ago.

~Officer: Sure.

~TH: We had a LeBaron, a little Chrysler LeBaron, uh, we bought from City Motors, here in West Memphis. That might have been what I was driving to town. Umm, umm, maybe blue.

~Officer: Okay.

~TH: I'm just guessing.
He can't remember what car he was driving at the time of what had to be one of the most unforgettable nights of his life- the night he says he drove around looking for his missing stepson, who was found, along with two other little boys, murdered the next day? Could you really forget what car you owned and were driving at that time?

Does anyone else think it's strange that he can remember where he bought the car ("City Motors, right here in West Memphis") but doesn't remember what color the car was? ("Umm, umm, maybe blue. I'm just guessing").

Also, he admits to having two cars at that time (along with maybe a truck), but even though the officer asks twice what type of cars they are, TH only gives information about one. What about the other car? The officer doesn't seem to catch that TH still hasn't answered the question about the second car, and lets this line of questioning drop.

Here is the video below. The exchange starts at 8:40. (Note that just as TH starts to answer the first question, he touches his nose, which is supposedly a classic indication that someone is about to lie).

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFXsWO9OBMg"]Terry Hobbs Speaks Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
 
SyraKelly said:
did'nt TH say in the Pasdar interview that the night the boys went missing was the first night he ever meet MB or am I wrong..I could have sworn I read that somewhere!
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deelytful1 said:
There were a few opinions about this as well. I don't believe it for a minute. Small town, boys were friends, etc...
Click to expand...

Listen to this telephone conversation between TH and JMB. It is the first 'video' of a series of three videos, all found on Youtube. It takes place 14 years after the murders. I think just after news that additional evidence had been discovered (possibly the DNA?).

Lots of little interesting little tidbits, but there is one part I find particularly interesting. It seems they are trying to reassure each other that they won't be 'found out', even as at least one (JMB?) of them must know they are being recorded. I'll transcribe this one portion, that starts at 2:24.

~TH: They are trying to play me and you right now, hoping to get a rise out of us. Which I ain't going to give them the thrill.
Hey, Mark-

~JMB: I'm trying to stay calm.

~TH: Huh?

~JMB: I'm trying to stay calm.

~TH: Hey- You're trying to?

~JMB: I, I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

~TH: Hell, yeah. You ain't, I mean, if, if there was anything to worry about, it wouldn't take the State fourteen years to figure it out. We ain't, we ain't done nothing wrong. I sure ain't.

~JMB: I know I haven't done anything.......

It continues from there, I am just a terribly slow 'transcriber', so I'll let you listen to the rest:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu57ti78okA"]Mark Byers Talking to Terry Hobbs (1 of 3) - YouTube[/ame]


 
smart blonde said:
Listen to this telephone conversation between TH and JMB. It is the first 'video' of a series of three videos, all found on Youtube. It takes place 14 years after the murders. I think just after news that additional evidence had been discovered (possibly the DNA?).

Lots of little interesting little tidbits, but there is one part I find particularly interesting. It seems they are trying to reassure each other that they won't be 'found out', even as at least one (JMB?) of them must know they are being recorded. I'll transcribe this one portion, that starts at 2:24.

~TH: They are trying to play me and you right now, hoping to get a rise out of us. Which I ain't going to give them the thrill.
Hey, Mark-

~JMB: I'm trying to stay calm.

~TH: Huh?

~JMB: I'm trying to stay calm.

~TH: Hey- You're trying to?

~JMB: I, I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

~TH: Hell, yeah. You ain't, I mean, if, if there was anything to worry about, it wouldn't take the State fourteen years to figure it out. We ain't, we ain't done nothing wrong. I sure ain't.

~JMB: I know I haven't done anything.......

It continues from there, I am just a terribly slow 'transcriber', so I'll let you listen to the rest:

Mark Byers Talking to Terry Hobbs (1 of 3) - YouTube
Click to expand...

Who recorded this call? Trying to stay calm??? If there was anything to worry about? What would they have have to worry about or stay calm about if you haven't done anything wrong. That is a very odd conversation for two completely innocent people. I'm all weirded out now.

ETA: Also seems that Terry thinks they would pin it on him, not both of them, from the way he is talking...
 
smart blonde said:
He can't remember what car he was driving at the time of what had to be one of the most unforgettable nights of his life- the night he says he drove around looking for his missing stepson, who was found, along with two other little boys, murdered the next day? Could you really forget what car you owned and were driving at that time?

Does anyone else think it's strange that he can remember where he bought the car ("City Motors, right here in West Memphis") but doesn't remember what color the car was? ("Umm, umm, maybe blue. I'm just guessing").

Also, he admits to having two cars at that time (along with maybe a truck), but even though the officer asks twice what type of cars they are, TH only gives information about one. What about the other car? The officer doesn't seem to catch that TH still hasn't answered the question about the second car, and lets this line of questioning drop.

Here is the video below. The exchange starts at 8:40. (Note that just as TH starts to answer the first question, he touches his nose, which is supposedly a classic indication that someone is about to lie).

Terry Hobbs Speaks Part 1 - YouTube
Click to expand...

Snipped for length, I hope you don't mind.

I find that suspicious, too. My best friend died in October, 1995, and I can still remember vehicle I owned. I remember the harrowing drive to the hospital where she had emergency surgery, and there are "pictures" in my mind of the interior of my van at certain moments. I find it odd that he couldn't remember at all, not even the color.

There's something else, though: I've had the misfortune to have interacted on a daily basis with several liars. Some lied more than others, but I would estimate that they lied far more than the average person. I would even go so far as to call one of them a con man.

One thing I've noticed is that they have a tendency to throw in kernels of truth. Just here and there, and I don't know if it's done on purpose or not, but I've learned that.

So as I was re-reading interviews, something that jumped out at me was during his (and Pam's) interview with the film company. In there, he says they heard that the boys were seen getting into an ice cream van. That whole section just comes across as hinky to me.

Here's the link and the section I'm referring to is on pages 47 & 48 of the pdf.

I'd be interested to hear what other people think about this. To me, it's like he's trying to explain it away in advance if a witness were to mention an ice cream van.
 
The manhole theory makes sense to me in that it would have muffled any screaming that would have gone on, but I can't see the point of taking the bodies out of there.
 
with respect, i think the position of where the manholes are located need to be considered in this theory. They are exposed to parking areas.The risk of moving and being seen is very high. Enough said.
 
Please look at the pictures and research that Paid did before totally dismissing the manhole theory. Here's a link:

http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=2386.0

He and I do disagree about a few things. For one thing, he believes that the boys were killed outside the manhole and then thrown into it. As to getting the bodies out, again there was a hook of sorts that could have been used to snag the shoestring "handles" and pull the bodies out, causing some of the abrasions on the bodies.

However, I believed that he carried them out. There was rebar inside the manhole that served as a ladder, so I believe that TH could have taken the bodies, one at a time, and thrown them over his shoulder and carried them out. If a man could fit in through the opening, throwing a young child's body over his shoulder would not IMO make it impossible to pass through the same opening. Obviously, he would have carried two up, one at a time, and taken them to the discovery ditch and then come back for the last one (or vice versa).

The one thing that I want to try to clarify is Stevie's pants. It does make sense to me that, if Terry were trying to dress Stevie, his pants would have been unzipped. The other boys' pants were jerked off IMO and, depending on how tightly they fit, the zippers could have been in either position. Since they were found inside out, I'm inclined to believe that they were zipped up. I'm going to see if I can find clarification on that point.

ETA: Damn! Ridge is unclear about Stevie's pants. Here's what he said:

Ridge: To the best of my memory, two of those pair of pants were inside out, buttoned, and zipped. One pair was right side out, I believe, buttoned and zipped.

http://www.callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/brynridge2.html

This is from the Echols/Baldwin trial. In the Misskelley trial, he was even less clear IMO. I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything better.
 
if we take all away what we know away today and pretend the autopsy findings reported:

No mutilation, no sexual perverse reason for boys nakedness and bindings.
just three boys beaten and drown in a ditch. ( God Bless these angels)

if the coroner was wrong and there was no degloving or mutilation, imo it changes everything in the case and everything that was prioritized in the case was wrong.

probably why the 3 are free. i am open. im not convinced of anything. i would like to know if DE or JB ever stated tht JM was a liar and that they never hung out with him , they dont even know him etc....

i think this trio relationship needs a closer look at, who else did JM hang out with during that period? could he be covering for his two closest friends?
Im not discounting TH theory but JM and two others is a good theory a well. JM might be the only guilty one of the three and he is now free.
 
That journal is a cry for help if I ever saw one. If anyone can read that and not believe that Terry Hobbs is a slime ball and most probably killed his step son and friends, I question that person's intelligence. Seriously.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmp0G8FXoA0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmp0G8FXoA0[/ame]

I found a video of Amanda singing.This girl completely breaks my heart.She is in so much pain.I've been thinking about her a lot lately and I just keep thinking that she may have been there when it happened.
 
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