Nancy Grace - Wednesday, 12/17/08

[suspicious1]

Try this....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3072351&postcount=205

I've got many of the same questions rolling around in my head, too. I'm way behind on the thread, maybe somebody else has offered some thoughts. I keep thinking, too, that this whole disposal process of little Caylee's body is way to methodical, given the messy scene in the car. Surely Casey didn't get detail-oriented in a moment of stress. I think she was standing look-out, that day that Tony met her there on Suburban to get gas. It was hot and muggy, there were lots of scratchy things in that field,... it just doesn't add up for her to have done this alone.
I don't know. Something, or someone, is missing from this equation, in my mind.

I totally agree with you. I, personally think that it has something to do with LA. He refused polygram, dna tests, and fingerprints. When this all started to break out about the body being moved, GA and CA were being watched. But remember, noone knew where LA was at. He dropped of the scene.

Maybe when KC stating she didn't know where Klee was, it was the truth. If LA was moving the body around on the outside, she didn't know where Klee was. Honestly. I just think that she left some truth out, she meant to say, "I know where I put her BUT I don't know where she's at now."

I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[cyberborg]

If this was an accidental drowning, evryone would have come clean a long time ago. While a tragic accident, it is not something that KC could really be held deeply accountable for. If anything it just adds to the next role she takes on. Grieving mother. As you say accidental child deaths related to pools are sadly not that uncommon. It would have gotten her out of jail months ago.

There has to be something else there for the steps she has taken. You dont rap the drowning victims head in duct tape. You don't double bag them and dump them in a swamp. Even if you panic. You don't drive around for days with your child in the trunk.
I am not ruling out the pool being in some way involved. the naked body, plus, if true the bathing suit in the bag mean it was somehow involved in KC's activities. But I am not convinced that it is the point or cause of death.

I suspect that KC may have brought the body into the back yard and attempted to dress her in a swim suit and stage a drowning accident. At that point she discovered that the body was already too far deteriorated for it to work. Thats when decomposition materials came in contact with the yard (the cadaver dog hits). When that didn't work she duct taped and double bagged the body. And finally after a near miss with George, dumped her in the swamp.

:clap: :clap: :woohoo: :clap: :clap:

 

[suspicious1]

I too think she was in the trunk that day and it sure would explain her behavior toward GA. Good thought! MOO

I also think that she was in the trunk at that time she was approached by GA. If GA was following behind her, maybe he saw a black trash bag and after retrieving the car from the tow yard and recognizing that smell he started putting 2 and 2 together. At this point he may have tried to tell Cindy about his conclusions and CA didn't want to believe it. Is that why they need immunity? What do they have to tell that may incriminate them?

 

[DesSands]

LE is working with hair and a tooth found at the scene where the remains were found. NG says an announcement that the remains are Caylee is expected soon. It's been confirmed that Caylee's bedding was taken from the Anthony home during the search warrant. LE says the have positively linked the home to the scene where remains found.

That I'm sure of, otherwise they would not have been throwing around the obstruction word so lightly. The A's are involved, but to what extent we don't know yet.

 

[desertmom]

Wouldn't it have to be Caylee's regular swim suit? Cindy said nothing was missing. No clothes, etc. That one guy, Chris (maybe) brought over the bag with the swimming suit and stuff. I'm sure she had more than one but how many and how could Cindy not notice?

You have to remember that this is the woman who didn't even give LE the correct hairbrush!! I have to believe that she had an inventory in her head of every piece of clothing that little girl owned....she knew it was missing, IMHO.

 

[Patty G]

Here are the pertinent parts of the NG transcript when Gale was on talking about the search near the school. Bold mine.[/I]

What is the date on this transcript?

 

[tx_Dot]

I find it interesting that the male defense lawyer brushed away the A's "inconsistencies" as something not criminal.

Why, then, do the A's need immunity?

I caught that too !!....

Why, then, do the A's need immunity?

 

[Dolphinmomcca]

There ya go, so say you are doing it behind his back on national TV
LP, give it to his wife, son, daughter..(if they don't work for the same folks)

Actually, I think this is legal......once on Deal or No deal this Mom was really struggling that was on the show and ended up not winning any money (or very little) and Donald Trump put $10, 000 in her childs college fund......helping out the family but not illegally giving it to the woman from the show itself.

 

[21merc7]

You have to remember that this is the woman who didn't even give LE the correct hairbrush!! I have to believe that she had an inventory in her head of every piece of clothing that little girl owned....she knew it was missing, IMHO.

I agree, and that is why it was so important for her to tell the story of the young man (can't remember which one) that brought some of Caylee's clothes to their home including her bathing suit!

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Did they ever say when the news conference would be to say if these were Caylee's remains or not?

 

[kiki the parrot]

If this was an accidental drowning, evryone would have come clean a long time ago. While a tragic accident, it is not something that KC could really be held deeply accountable for. If anything it just adds to the next role she takes on. Grieving mother. As you say accidental child deaths related to pools are sadly not that uncommon. It would have gotten her out of jail months ago.

There has to be something else there for the steps she has taken. You dont rap the drowning victims head in duct tape. You don't double bag them and dump them in a swamp. Even if you panic. You don't drive around for days with your child in the trunk.

I am not ruling out the pool being in some way involved. the naked body, plus, if true the bathing suit in the bag mean it was somehow involved in KC's activities. But I am not convinced that it is the point or cause of death.

I suspect that KC may have brought the body into the back yard and attempted to dress her in a swim suit and stage a drowning accident. At that point she discovered that the body was already too far deteriorated for it to work. Thats when decomposition materials came in contact with the yard (the cadaver dog hits). When that didn't work she duct taped and double bagged the body. And finally after a near miss with George, dumped her in the swamp.

Guess by now I sound like a broken record (or a parrot lol) but the discovery of Caylee's bathing suit only confirms my theory all along of a drowning w poorly planned cover-up. The only thing which recent evidence has made clearer for me is that it appears this cover-up involved the staging of a kidnapping--albeit one which failed to factor in Faye nor the three feet of water under which her daughter's remains would be submerged within weeks of Caylee's reported disappearance. Evidently though, the A's are not the only ones who, in the face of overwhelming evidence, will insist on sticking to their other theories. But I believe the evidence is being greatly misconstrued or misinterpreted--and KC is her own worst enemy. As I've acknowledged all along, there is nothing re Casey's reaction in the aftermath of a negligence scenario that is remotely how any rational, reasonable, responsible adult would respond. At the same time, if you take an already immature, insecure, narcissistic mother who's been told for three years what an unfit mother she is (and who's btw basically been begging all her life for some limits on her outrageously bad behavior) PRIOR to June 16; then imagine (it's not hard) like a self-fulfilling prophecy her negligence precipitates her child's death (resulting from poor supervision), compounded by an inability to reach the only ones she trusted in those critical minutes, coupled w increasing paranoia at being caught, I mean this might push someone even w/out a fullblown personality disorder over the edge to something more pathological. In the case of a two year-old in a home w an inadequately childproofed pool, neglect, inattentiveness and poor supervision alone are easily capable of causing a toddler's death. And throughout interviews w LE, and LA, KC continued to say repeatedly how maybe her mother was right, maybe she was an unfit mother afterall, how she knew her mother could never forgive her etc. The question is also whether any neglect rose to the level of culpable negligence--"gross and flagrant" failure to use "ordinary care." And if KC isn't talking or admitting to any knowledge of Caylee's death, this will be a difficult burden for the State. Any admission of neglect would go over infinitely better w LE, but her current fabrication is the only position in which she can maintain a total 'innocent victim' status w her mother: Otherwise, it's obvious to me that anyone facing possible death, attempting to hide anything more than a negligence circumstance, would no doubt have feigned one.

But who could have known that, w/in 24 hours, all your mother's relentless berading and prophecies about your unfit mothering would come true? Were you checking your myspace when you suddenly realized it had been too quiet for too long. Did you wonder where the time had gone as you tore yourself away from the computer to go in search of your normally babbling daughter? Was there a growing sense of unease as you checked every room, calling her name as you saw she wasn't playing in the backyard either? Were you sick w the realization she wasn't in her sandbox... nor the garage... nor playing a game of hide-and-seek, as you approached the pool w dread and terror... Is it here your mind recoiled to see first her backpack, floating on the surface... and then grapples in horror to take in the sight of Caylee's tiny, lifeless body in the bottom of the pool? Were your mother's words deafening in your ears as you asked, how could it have happened?? As you enter the cold water, fully clothed w boots, before you can reach her, was your mind already reeling w horror... was it protesting, but it has only been ten minutes... Or was it flashing back to what was more important than watching your child? Were you wracking your brain w a million questions, like who forgot to close the gate? Hadn't your mother just told you about that? Or something about Caylee soon mastering this task herself? Did you bear the guilt of having attached the ladder yourself--intending to take Caylee in, but becoming distracted; or had she been left unattended long enough that, after wandering back there, she somehow managed to pull the lawnchair over and climb up w/out help, toppling in head first while trying to retrieve a toy...

She is blue, cold and nonresponsive--beyond hope, you despair, of revival or of ever being the same vibrant, alert, active girl. You can already hear your mother's hysterical voice condemning you KC, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE... the guilt and shame so profound it is easier to feel nothing from now on. Did you freeze in your panic, frantically trying to dial while staring in shock and disbelief at your daughter who just minutes ago was so full of life... trying desperately to reach someone, ANYONE, but knowing she will never be the same. You have done the very thing of which your mother has always accused you. Maybe she IS right... You KNOW your mother can NEVER forgive you. She has forgiven so much, but there is no way you can ever make up for this. SHE CAN NEVER LEARN THE TRUTH. This time there is no one who can be trusted, and no one, not even her, who can fix it.

You must hide her then, quickly... in the sandbox... no, the tarp, or wait this smaller storage container, could be dragged behind shrubs toward the rear of the yard... at least until you can figure out some other place, and come back for her. Your clothes are soaked and there is no time to waste, you have to change. You will leave then just like she told you, and stay gone. She will think you have changed, and are no longer depending on them. You just need time... you'll figure everything out later, right now you must hurry to pack a bag of your clothes, which you throw on the front seat, tossing your dripping clothes and boots behind the front seat onto the floor of the car. It is too late--nothing can ever change it, nothing will ever bring her back so you must cut her out of your heart--afterall, everyone lies, everyone dies..." (kiki the parrot)

*Of all preschoolers who drown, 75 percent are missing from sight for five minutes or less.

*Among children ages 1 to 4 years, most drownings occur in residential swimming pools. More than 85 percent of drowning among children ages 1 to 4 are pool related. Most young children who drowned in pools were in the care of one or both parents at the time.

*Barriers such as pool fencing, can help prevent children from gaining access to the pool area w/out caregivers’ awareness. Install a four-sided isolation fence that completely separates house and play area of the yard from the pool area. The fence should be at least 4 feet high. Use self-closing and self-latching gates that open outward w latches that are out of reach of children. Also, consider additional barriers such as automatic door locks or alarms to prevent access or notify you if someone enters the pool area.

*The Association of Pool and Spa Professions (ASSP) recommends being aware of objects (ETA like tables, chairs, or containers) which could allow children to climb over barriers and reach the pool.

*Drowning is a "silent killer," swimming and child medical experts said. It's not at all like Hollywood dramatizations depicting floundering swimmers bobbing to the surface yelping for help for several minutes.

*"Kids slip in the water like a pebble going under," said Dr. Marty Eichelberger CEO of the National SAFE KIDS Campaign. "As they try to get themselves out of the water, they sorta streamline their bodies making this linear form, and it takes them straight to the bottom. They only have a minute or two before they loose consciousness. ... It is a silent thing because they are under the water. They are trying to get themselves to the point where they can breathe, and as they breathe, they just suck in more water."

*The majority of children who survive (92%) are discovered w/in two minutes following submersion, and most children who die (86%) are found after 10 minutes. Nearly all who require CPR die or are left w severe brain injury. Nonfatal drownings can cause brain damage that may result in long-term disabilities including learning disabilities and permanent loss of basic functioning (permanent vegetative state).

*In 2005, of all children 1 to 4 years old who died, almost 30% died from drowning. Although drowning rates have slowly declined fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death for children.

There is nothing to date which connects chloroform to Caylee herself. I enrolled my five year-old daughter in swim lessons this fall after hearing of this case. This is the recommended age for formal instruction, but even swimming classes can not "drown proof" your child. In all honesty, I think CA and GA bear tremendous guilt too, knowing as both homeowners and grandparents, they did not childproof or safeguard their pool w the recommended barriers, safety alarms, and pool fencing to specification. A gate simply isn't enough, and in FL, where many have these backyard killers and these precautions are well known, ALL of the above should be standard procedure--in the event ANY child should wander into a pool owner's yard but particularly in a home w a toddler--which IMO would itself constitute "ordinary care." This, in my estimation, is the reason why A's keep up efforts to collude, protect and deny their daughter's responsibility. Because in a tragic but very real sense, they may realize they share culpability. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

It wouldn't be the first time a child drowned in the pool while the responsible adults were not watching. CA made mention of the pool chest. She and GA removed the bush in the yard, so the chest could go against the fence instead of the pool wall because Caylee had learned to climb the chest and get into the pool.

OT/ I love backyard pools, but if you have a toddler - they have to take swim lessons or you have to drain the pool. Neither here. EVERYBODY claims that they put the ladder away and no one knows who left it up last but the baby ends up dead and everyone is guilty. This happens over and over again every year. Same thing with fences. And pool alarms. It makes me sick. (Rant of the day)

(bold mine) Yathink...