NC - Erica Lynn Parsons, 13, Rowan County, 19 Nov 2011 - #1

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Well, she IS missing because she has not been found yet, dead or alive. It has not been proven(to public anyway) that she was in fact murdered or sold or kidnapped. Dr. Phil's show was aired to give case exposure and to help find this child no matter what the circumstances are. LE would not be telling the DR. Phil show that yes she is dead and we just aren't telling anyone yet...
I think you may have skipped or misread the entire post I was quoting. My post was in response to the hypothetical theory that Erica IS alive and LE knows where she is. If that was the case, LE wouldn't be keeping the info away from Dr Phil. They wouldn't let him beg the country to search for her. I'm sure it would be ethically, professionally and legally wrong.

Your last sentence is pretty much what I'm saying.
 
I think that this applies across the board. People are innocent in this country until proven guilty. Otherwise we could just pick people out and slaughter them in the media and online and they would have no recourse but alas they do. When talked about in the media even after arrested they are called the alleged or charged, not the murderer.

I think it helps us all to work from a place of innocent until proven guilty.

I find a lot of this case troubling. I am concerned for Erica and the parents story makes me nervous. I am hoping beyond hope that Erica is alive and well with Nan or whoever but my gut tells me there is more to the story. Much more. Hopefully the current attention will help break something open.

Right now I think the parents are guilty of being neglectful and having bad judgment. We will see what else comes up.

I am curious about the son and why he would call and report such a thing without a body actually being in the back yard to find. It makes me question his motives also.

If this is the story that CP and SP tells those who inquire about Erica's whereabouts, wouldn't anyone be suspicious? If CP was abusive perhaps James is now old enough and found 'his voice" and decided to to call police even if there was malice involved. Perhaps,CP was such a bad mother that he just had enough of her and "acted out" aggressively. I can understand his behavior given all her/his family have nothing good to say about her. It is a big red flag to me that the whole family has alienated themselves from this family.
I am just glad JP found the courage to go to police.
 
I think that this applies across the board. People are innocent in this country until proven guilty.

Snipped for space.

I see this so often, and it drives me crazy.

People who commit crimes are not innocent. The "innocence" is only a legal system presumption for purposes of the prosecution process.

Someone who sold their kid into slavery or killed her is not innocent. If they did it, they did it. LE doesn't have to assume innocence. We would be nowhere without people suspecting others and investigating and gathering evidence to prove (or disprove) guilt.

So no, we don't have the facts, so we don't know for sure if they are guilty. But in reality, if they did something criminal they are guilty. Criminals don't instantly become guilty only when the court says so.

It's probably a matter of semantics, this "people are innocent" sentiment that gets thrown around. But people who in fact committed a crime are guilty from the moment they did the act(s), whether anyone else is aware of it or not.

I realize the legal process starts with the presumption of innocence and takes on the burden, via evidence, of proving guilt, and that's all good. But the rest of us don't have to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that nothing stinks to high heaven in this situation.

Sorry, this "people are innocent" thing is one of my hot buttons....I had to get it out. :seeya:
 
From Twitter (read from bottom up):

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey tells @ColeenHarryWBTV that Erica is still out there but is afraid to call. #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey says @ColeenHarryWBTV all JonBenet mags were sisters, knows nothing about red stains in closet. #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey says to @ColeenHarryWBTV she saved kid's teeth, they haven't used barn "in years," felt exploited by @DrPhil #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Parsons family showed early Rowan court to face judge on juvenile summons re: their other children. @ColeenHarryWBTV is on it #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey says she saved kid's teeth, says Erica is still out there. @ColeenHarryWBTV #EricaParsons
 
FINALLY! Got through those 35 pages, I have been following this from the start and have wanted to say so much in between each post but I needed to catch up to the very end.

So many things in this case just scream lies and guilt.

1.) The surrogacy. Based on the fact alone that CP tried to fake a miscarriage and was contacting others about selling the baby. That in itself shows what kind of person we're dealing with here. I believe she is all about the money, end of story. She made it glaringly obvious that she was in this to get paid, no feelings of remorse, no sympathy, no human-like qualities in her that I've seen so far.

2.) The reporting of her own biological child, BP, missing within ONE DAY in 2012. I believe this should be focused on much more. If she was willing to file a missing persons report for her own child so quickly, how could she possibly neglect a child she raised from birth or feel that not hearing from her for WEEKS/MONTHS was satisfactory?

3.) SP's past record of abuse on CP in the 90's. I find it appalling that a court allowed SP/CP to become adoptive parents based on this fact alone. Not only that, but the recency of the abuse cases to the adoption date of EP. Once an abuser, always an abuser as proven in many other cases. This could also be the reason behind JP's mental instability and attitude. If JP did also abuse EP, it was most likely a result of him being abused himself as a child. Either way, any parent with a physical abuse background is HIGHLY likely to allow that behavior to reoccur in the future.

4.) The DDS checks. This is the most obvious motive behind EP missing. She made that apparent when she let EP go stay with her sister at 6 years old and then took her back 8 months later because she was afraid they'd find out EP was missing and stop the payments. During this time, it was also made apparent that CP HATED EP because it reminded her of Carol P. I find it so odd (as others have mentioned) that CP has such disdain for CarolP and has expressed this to other family members of hers, yet decided to take in not one, not two, not three but FOUR of CarolP's children so many years ago. I would really like to know the details behind this falling out. It's already very odd that EP's biological mother, CarolP is tied in with SP/CP by SP's brother. That in itself is so odd, that you would give away your own children to your husband's brother, knowing his wife hated you. I want to know EXACTLY why CP hates CarolP. That could shed some light on things and why CP/SP felt the need to abuse EP so much.

5.) Obviously "Nan". This is a 100% fabricated person IMO. "Nan/Irene Goodman" has become CP's scapegoat for placing all of the blame. The reason she's sticking to her story is most likely because she's told it so many times over the past couple of years, she's starting to almost believe it herself. NO ONE other than CP (who's proven to be caught in multiple lies thus far) has actually met this Nan person. IMO, CP dug her hole even deeper when she said that EP didn't bring any of her things, clothes, personal items, etc, because Nan and the others with her supposedly had a full new wardrobe and an unopened Christmas present which just happened to be a pair of boots. No address, no phone number, no record of the existence of an Irene Goodman in the age range and location CP states. All of this in the incredibly information rich age of technology in 2013 we live in.....SO UNBELIEVABLE!!!

6.) The removal of all of EP's things from CP/SP's home. This has to be one of the most obvious signs that something is very, very wrong. I'm not a trained detective as most WS'ers aren't, but this just screams that SP/CP were in on EP's permanent disappearance.

7.) The finding of other materials related to missing children in SP/CP's home. You may have very remotely been able to chalk up a coincidence to the JonBenet Ramsey magazine/book, add in the Susan Smith material and this becomes a HUGE red flag. I believe they were obsessed with these cases and that research SP/CP did on those cases has played a role in EP's disappearance.

8.) The teeth. As just mentioned above, finding them once, only maybe you could could consider it a possible issue in the case. Twice? This is yet another huge concern. I'm not sure what to think of this aspect quite yet. We don't know if they are baby teeth or adult teeth. They could be from physical abuse, they could be from the "tooth fairy" as other mothers have mentioned. There are just too many unknowns with the teeth right now. Either way, highly suspicious the second set of teeth were locked away in SP's parent's shed. I do want to know what is on the video they confiscated as well.

9.) The lie detector test. It's bad enough that SP just about failed in the worst way possible to the most important two questions asked regarding EP's disappearance. It's even more obvious when you add the fact that SP so conveniently can't take it herself. I guarantee you the moment CP is forced to take an LTD, we will have the same failing results, thus confirming our suspicions they were both directly responsible for EP's disappearance.

I could go on but this post is already longer than it should be. Sorry for the rambling but I have had so many thoughts built up since I started on page 1 and wanted to give my two cents. I have read each and every post you guys have put up on this thread and agree with most of you on these highly suspicious activities.

There is MUCH MORE to this story than meets the eye and the truth will prevail. Right now, it's just a matter of time, but mark my words, SP & CP will be serving time in prison!
 
In regards to the surrogacy... CP is simply ridiculous if she thinks people are going to fall for these lies. Surrogacy- I know next to nothing about it, but it can NOT be cheap. And she wants us to believe that after the positive pregnancy test, the people paying her to carry a child for them, wanted her to ABORT the baby? Really? Come ON.

PS: the above is discusses in- I think- parts 5/6 of part 2 on Dr P. (Id link but am leaving for a bit, no tme)
 
Usually in these kinds of cases, I do all kinds of mental gymnastics, thinking up the most fantastical scenarios in order to hope that the missing person still might be alive. But in this case, I just can't. I want to think that poor Erica is alive out there somewhere, but it just seems too unrealistic to even hope.

About the teeth - parents usually keep milk teeth either in a special box/container, or else store them in a special or intimate place. My mum keeps our baby teeth in a regular envelope, but they're stored in the little drawers next to her bed. I don't know where the "Erica theeth" envelope was stored, but it's very weird that teeth were also found far away in a storage shed in the grandfather's garden. It's also weird that they have kept her teeth at all, seeing as they don't seem to have cared for her, or to have kept many other sentimental things such as photographs. Teeth might be significant to the investigation, because removing teeth is a way of hampering identification of a body.

About James - he wasn't charged with the offences that he was accused of, because Casey didn't turn up in court. There is a possibility that she was lying, and that's why she didn't bother turning up. She seems to be trying to deflect all suspicions towards him, just because he suffers from a mental health condition. It's completely immoral for a mother to be using society's prejudices against people with mental health problems, against her own son.

According to Casey, didn't James accuse them of killing Erica, then chopping her up and burying her? Well Sandy used to work as a butcher, so it would make sense that someone who used to work in that profession would try to dispose of a body in that way (it's also weird that an ex-butcher is now working in the pet trade). Casey's strange "flesh her out" comment seems like a Freudian slip when you consider this scenario.
 
FINALLY! Got through those 35 pages, I have been following this from the start and have wanted to say so much in between each post but I needed to catch up to the very end.

So many things in this case just scream lies and guilt.

Solariis, I snipped for space, but just wanted to thank you for this excellent summary!
 
I'm not overly concerned with bio mom's character here--the whole family is clearly hugely dysfunctional. I'm concerned that these people have a ridiculous story about giving away their missing daughter to a near stranger whose existence they cannot prove.
BBM - Exactly. Thanks to the legacy started by Casey Anthony, a parent's 'word' is no longer good enough when a child is missing. :banghead: Until LE officially clears these 'parents' I will continue to think what I do, until proven otherwise. They have committed fraud for continuing to receive government assistance for a child that didn't live with them. If there is a Caylee's law in their state, they should be charged with failing to report a child missing in a timely manner. I just cannot ignore all the red flags in this case, which are a result of these 'parents' words and actions. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in a court of law, not the court of public opinion. :twocents:
 
Snipped for space.

I see this so often, and it drives me crazy.

People who commit crimes are not innocent. The "innocence" is only a legal system presumption for purposes of the prosecution process.

Someone who sold their kid into slavery or killed her is not innocent. If they did it, they did it. LE doesn't have to assume innocence. We would be nowhere without people suspecting others and investigating and gathering evidence to prove (or disprove) guilt.

So no, we don't have the facts, so we don't know for sure if they are guilty. But in reality, if they did something criminal they are guilty. Criminals don't instantly become guilty only when the court says so.

It's probably a matter of semantics, this "people are innocent" sentiment that gets thrown around. But people who in fact committed a crime are guilty from the moment they did the act(s), whether anyone else is aware of it or not.

I realize the legal process starts with the presumption of innocence and takes on the burden, via evidence, of proving guilt, and that's all good. But the rest of us don't have to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that nothing stinks to high heaven in this situation.

Sorry, this "people are innocent" thing is one of my hot buttons....I had to get it out. :seeya:

Couldn't agree with you more Boodles! At the very least these two will be charged with neglect or endangerment to a child, collecting the checks without having EP present, some type of fraud I would assume, and eventually perjury if they continue to lie once they've taken an oath. I can't believe this child's precious LIFE was only worth $600 a month to these disgusting people.
 
If you are getting money monthly (salary) for housing a child, shouldn't there be some kind of organ that check that their "employees" are doing a decent job?

I was once fired for mistakingly opening a confidential letter for perspectiv's sake!

when it comes to receiving money from the state, here in America, there is little oversight and lots of fraud. the entire welfare system is wrought with fraud.
 
Solariis, I also wanted to thank you for the excellent summary!

(respectfully snipped)
According to Casey, didn't James accuse them of killing Erica, then chopping her up and burying her? Well Sandy used to work as a butcher, so it would make sense that someone who used to work in that profession would try to dispose of a body in that way (it's also weird that an ex-butcher is now working in the pet trade). Casey's strange "flesh her out" comment seems like a Freudian slip when you consider this scenario.
Squish, Also thanks for a great post! I agree with you on the teeth and speculation about James. Just for clarification purposes, Where was it reported that SP used to work as a butcher? I don't remember hearing that before. Also I heard/read that James accused SP of killing Erica, but not that he had chopped her up. Were these two pieces of information published somewhere? I thought I had read pretty much everything on the case.

Is anybody collecting a timeline and miscellaneous facts on this case? I wish I had started on some lists from the beginning.
 
From Twitter (read from bottom up):

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey tells @ColeenHarryWBTV that Erica is still out there but is afraid to call. #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey says @ColeenHarryWBTV all JonBenet mags were sisters, knows nothing about red stains in closet. #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey says to @ColeenHarryWBTV she saved kid's teeth, they haven't used barn "in years," felt exploited by @DrPhil #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Parsons family showed early Rowan court to face judge on juvenile summons re: their other children. @ColeenHarryWBTV is on it #EricaParsons

David Joel Whisenant ‏@DavidWhisenant 2h
Casey says she saved kid's teeth, says Erica is still out there. @ColeenHarryWBTV #EricaParsons


if mom and dad have not heard from little Erica in 2 years (or so) how do they know she is too afraid to call????

im sorry, but these people are idiots. their lies are so stupid and illogical, yet they think that people will believe them.

these are people that im pretty sure have a long history of fraud, corruption, criminal activity (but not caught), bad behavior, probably some mental issues going on and habit of lying their way out of things and not being held accountable. THIS is why they lie so easily, yet their lies are so D U M B. they have never been held accountable for any of their actions over their lifetime. until now. im sure the extended family keeps their distance from this super toxic and dysfunctional couple for good reason.

this is not a family of einsteins, that's for sure.

I am starting to think that little Erica has been gone much much longer than 2 years and that is why there is one picture of her being so young. just because she is small for her age, doesn't mean her face would not age. unless she has a certain disease that prevents her from aging. I also think that the other kids in the house probably are too afraid to say much of anything useful, especially if there is abuse in the home. we don't know what all james has said apart from what is reported. he could have said much more. and if there is abuse in the home, it could affect the kids ability to remember important facts such as dates.

this all reminds me so much of deborah bradley and little lisa. yes, the facts are different, but the stupidity, attitudes, lies and lack of emotion just comes off as the same....along with the zombie silent husband.
 
What amazes me is that both of them were live on national TV and neither one of them took a second to look directly at the camera and tell Erica they loved her and missed her and to please contact them or LE !!

This is also highly suspicious IMO ACR. Little things like this make the difference in telling whether someone is lying to cover their tracks or genuinely concerned for the welfare of their own child. You can see this is pretty apparent on their faces when Dr. Phil himself desperately asks for anyone with information to contact the number on the screen at the end of Part 2, video 5 of the Dr. Phil show while SP/CP just sound so disinterested/apathetic. It's almost as if they know there is no hope or reason to ask the public for help at this point. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCFf6qaWjY
 
Someone will be sure to correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard either of the adoptive parents say they loved or missed Erica. I might also add that I've never heard either of them ask her to come home.
 
From Part 1 of the six part interview with the Parsons posted earlier:

Reporter: Who's Nan?

Casey: Nan is- Nan is her name, just like anybody gets called grandma and Nana, hers was Nan. And, that's what Erica called her but her real name was Irene Goodman.

Reporter: And, her relationship with Erica?

Casey: It's her biological grandmother on the fathers side.

Reporter: Have you met this woman before?

Casey: I have been talking to Nan since July of 2011, and the first time I met her face to face was in September of 2011.

Reporter: She came here?

Casey: No, we met at a McDonald's in Mooresville.

Reporter: How did you meet her?

Casey: When we met her in July of 2011, it was her biological mother that had gave her all the information to contact us. And, she knew all of our information. She knew our names. She knew Erica's birthday. All about, of course, Erica's biological Daddy and names, and she knew Carolyn, the biological mother. She knew every- everything.

But there is no Nan.......personally I think the birth mom is irrelevant to this whole mess.
 
i am horrified by this whole situation - what i don't understand is why no one seemed to notice that this little girl was missing - other members of the family who lived outside the house, neighbors, friends... they must have told this story to other people?

This is what just breaks my heart too. :(

I found the sisters (step/half/?) FB through the comments in one of the articles and I was sickened all over again.

Talking about how much they loved Erica and wanted her home safe.

:banghead: But for two years...through Christmases, birthdays, etc. they didn't give a chit enough about her to even know she was missing.
 
Ok, so the information that Carolyn "assisted" in delivering Erica to a stranger is based entirely on the word of ... Casey Parsons, who admittedly hates her guts.

Worse, it's based on the nonexistent Nan telling CP that bio mom is the one who provided the info to find Erica's adoptive family. In other words a second or third hand piece of hearsay at best

So either

a) there is no Nan and the lie is Casey P's

or, even if you believe Erica is still living and was turned over to people pretending to be bio family

b) there is a woman who presented herself as bio family but wasn't and that unknown person lied to Casey P about how they came to contact the Parsons family about Erica. If you believe these people exist then they are obviously proven liars because LE have established they are not teh bio relatives they claimed to be.

So either way, the info about Carolyn leading the unknown persons to the Parsons family comes from an established liar.

There is zero evidence that Carolyn, bio mom told anyone anything which "assisted in delivering Erica to "Nan"". There is only the word of a woman who accuses everyone around her in some sort of conspiracy to ruin her life, including her own blood relations.

SMH, this is a mess. If CP told me right now the sky is blue I would not believe it. MOO
 
If LE knew that Erica was not missing, and then allowed The Dr Phil Show to say that she is, it would be akin to yelling, "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. And if the show was breaking the law I'm sure LE could get a court order to stop it from airing. Dr Phil isn't above the law and he isn't an idiot, either. You can bet that his extensive staff looked into every detail, including checking with LE. It's just common sense.

You have a good general point, but your specific analogy to yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theater is perhaps not the best (that's not a cut-and-dried no-no, but involves motive and other factors).

The show probably wouldn't be breaking any law by claiming Erica's missing if they know she's not (depending on the reason for the disparity between reality and spin), but saying that Dr. Phil's staff looked into the matter thoroughly is more relevant and you're making a very good point there. The Dr. Phil Show would lose its audience immediately if there were ultimately no justification for such a "charade."

But it is so common for cases to involve back-tracking on the facts that most people take it in stride if it's "explained away" later to their satisfaction. The pliable public has a way of turning on a dime, 180 degrees, depending on which way their nose ring is being jerked.

Regarding the hiding-Erica-from-James theory, the biggest hole (as has been pointed out) is that Casey and Sandy could tell LE and request that it be kept confidential so that James couldn't find out. On the other hand, James has already assaulted his mother with a baseball bat, and if he found out that Erica was being hidden from him, he could become homicidal towards one or both parents, and maybe even other family members ... a good reason for CP & SP not to reveal specifically where Erica is.

As for the idea that Casey simply gave Erica away, it just doesn't fit Casey's money-hungry profile.

But selling (there's a nice lump sum) or killing Erica gets rid of the caretaking effort and leaves the regular government checks intact ... as long as she's not reported missing. If there was a murder, I'd say it was probably accidental (perhaps by Sandy), just because Casey wouldn't simply kill a child on purpose that she could instead sell and get money for in addition to the future ongoing government checks. She's too conniving to simply kill or give away a potential source of income (unless the killing were accidental).

How about this (the idea of selling Erica hasn't yet been deeply explored so far as I know): Say Erica was sold to a child-trafficking ring (or even a sex-trafficking ring) that is run by organized crime. Speculate that Casey received a very nice sum of money in the Mooresville McDonald's parking lot, while Sandy was waiting out of visual range (he couldn't see Irene "Nan" Goodman OR the possible money transaction ... so did Casey have to walk over there, or did Sandy drop her off and drive some distance away?). No documents were signed, and no paper trail was created. Let's say it was understood that Casey and Sandy would be dead ducks if the ring were ever about to be revealed, so Casey dreamed up the perfect explanations for everything (Erica was entrusted to Irene "Nan" Goodman, the [oops! already dead for 3 years] mother of Erica's biological father, Willliam "Billy" Goodman, after which all avenues of contact with Nan and Erica magically disappeared). The denial by Erica's sister Brooke that she went to the Asheville area with Erica and her parent(s) could fit in with the sale theory, where the true buyer's(s') identity(ies) have been withheld (and were possibly never known) by Casey in favor of her story about entrusting Erica to the care of her [oops! already dead!] paternal grandmother. Casey could have fabricated the story about going to Asheville ... or maybe she just has a really fragmented brain and memory.

Consider the three most viable theories: murder, sale, or give-away. For Law Enforcement, digging up the Parsons' yard, looking for a dead body, is part of the process of elimination. A dead body proves death (from whatever cause) and provides possible evidence that Erica was not sold or given away before her death. Not finding a dead body there or elsewhere leaves her possible death unresolved, and also keeps the other two possibilities open (sale, give-away). If organized crime were involved in a sale, then Sandy Parsons might be particularly frightened because even if he could escape conviction and jail or the death penalty for murder, he would be killed by the crime ring (likely disguised as a "suicide" or "car accident") long before the ring's existence could be discovered.

I thought Sandy looked a little scared on the Dr. Phil Show, but I chalked it up to his being unaccustomed to that environment, as well as being a less verbal man. But other people on this forum say they saw a great deal more fear than that in his eyes. What if he knew he was going to die soon, no matter what, just because of the media spotlight on finding Erica? That would strike fear into his heart.

At this moment, I'd lean towards the organized-crime-ring sale first, and the accidental murder second, except for James' claim that Erica was killed by one or both parents (is he even credible?).

This is pure speculation, of course, and totally unfounded.
 
Kelly and Strawberry were also in the car, (saw Erica being dropped off with Nan??) Kelly is Erica's bio half sister, dad is Goodman, and Strawberry was his girlfriend. Police contacted both of them but they denied any knowledge of the incident.

Snipped for space.

ClaireNC, Do you know where this was stated? Was there a police report of LE talking with Strawberry & Kelly or was this listed anywhere in MSM?

I've become increasingly curious about the statements made to LE by Kelly & Strawberry as we now know they ARE real people unlike Nan. It seems that CP included 2 real people who were actually involved in BD Goodman's life to make her story more believable. ACR already confirmed that BD Goodman's real mother (Who Nan is supposed to be) is named Cloie Lou and she died in July 2005. CarolP Also confirmed that her ex's (BD Goodman aka EP's Bio father) mother died in 2005 so therefore EP could not possibly be with the grandmother.

Since the grandmother seems to be a complete fabrication, I would like to know where CP got the idea to use Strawberry & Kelly's names as people who were involved with picking up and seeing EP for the last time. Did CP know these two or see them on a regular or semi regular basis? How did she know to use their names along with "Nan"?
 
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