NC - Shaniya Davis, 5, Fayetteville, 10 Nov 2009 - Allegedly sold by mother #26

[LogicalMinds]

I agree CLD had to "follow" the laws...but why not drop a dime??

call in social services...call the trailer park manager....call the school...make a fuss?

I have a nagging feeling that IF some intervention had taken place MAM and AD might not have gotten to the horrible place they went to

it would be better to say "I tried".....

The sad case in FLorida of little Luke, snatched by his non custodial dad during a court ordered court "supervised" visit is one thing....but this was NOT a court ordered "visit" or stay...this was totally up to BL from all we see

someone could have tried...done something

BL won't say about the phone calls will he?? I wonder if there were any

did CLD try to call there?? I just don't get it
gplablogger:Welcome-12-june:

I liked your post and I agree..this should be about Shaynia..not a new career for her dad

a scary thing is the report that Florida has cut back so much on which "abuse" calls even get shuffled off to the agencies....

but still someone could have tried

regarding your post about checking into a place before you take your kids there....I have posted before that I use/d much much more time, energy and concern in finding boarding pet motels/kennels for dogs and cats than was used to place Shaynia

the pictures don't lie , she went from a comfortable life into a h//llhole

and in this case for BL it was I think "all about me">> "My turn">>> "my time"...."it's AD's turn to take care of HER daughter now"..."I need my time, my space..I need a break"..

all self justification...to throw this sweet little girl into that monster's den
I wouldn't board a cat in that craphole

 

[Patty G]

The laws saying AD had legal rights to the child and to demand Shaniya be returned to her care.
And that said that Carey, as a non-custodial guardian had to follow the wishes of the custodial parent/parents.

But there was NO "official" court-ordered custody agreement only BL saying: "it's time to be a mother."

All Carey had to do is "defy" her brother and just not bring Shaniya. BL was already in another state.

Let's see how that scenario would have worked out. AD doesn't get Shaniya on October 9th. AD calls Carey and asks "where is Shaniya?" Carey says: "I am not bringing her as I am concerned for her welfare".

AD calls BL in Utah or wherever he was working and tells him "Carey won't bring Shaniya to the house." BL calls Carey and demands Carey to bring Shaniya to the house. Carey refuses and BL MUST return to North Carolina.

BL also calls the police, of which, then some sort of court custody papers/birth certificate should come into play when the police arrive. The police might get DCFS involved to look at AD's home and for the welfare of Shaniya.

Carey would have to show "legal non-custodial" papers to the police, of which, probably don't even exists.

Now BL has to come back and perhaps finally either end up in court to get this all taken care of properly.

Maybe the police would have asked BL to bring Shaniya directly to AD's home and then they all could take a peek inside of the house.

Maybe the police, IF satisfied after speaking with BL on the phone, that the police would bring Shaniya to AD. :waitasec:

Perhaps Shaniya would have been taken by DCFS and put into foster-care until all the paperwork is all in order.

I would sooner "defy my brother" and face the consequences in a court of law.

 

[songline]

But there was NO "official" court-ordered custody agreement only BL saying: "it's time to be a mother."

All Carey had to do is "defy" her brother and just not bring Shaniya. BL was already in another state.
Let's see how that scenario would have worked out. AD doesn't get Shaniya on October 9th. AD calls Carey and asks "where is Shaniya?" Carey says: "I am not bringing her as I am concerned for her welfare".

AD calls BL in Utah or wherever he was working and tells him "Carey won't bring Shaniya to the house." BL calls Carey and demands Carey to bring Shaniya to the house. Carey refuses and BL MUST return to North Carolina.

BL also calls the police, of which, then some sort of court custody papers/birth certificate should come into play when the police arrive. The police might get DCFS involved to look at AD's home and for the welfare of Shaniya.

Carey would have to show "legal non-custodial" papers to the police, of which, probably don't even exists.

Now BL has to come back and perhaps finally either end up in court to get this all taken care of properly.

Maybe the police would have asked BL to bring Shaniya directly to AD's home and then they all could take a peek inside of the house.

Maybe the police, IF satisfied after speaking with BL on the phone, that the police would bring Shaniya to AD. :waitasec:

Perhaps Shaniya would have been taken by DCFS and put into foster-care until all the paperwork is all in order.

I would sooner "defy my brother" and face the consequences in a court of law.

BBM That is my absolute favorite scenario Patty. :nluv: :nluv:
All Carey had to do is "defy" her brother and just not bring Shaniya. BL was already in another state.

that is why CDL is not making any special points with me.
And again while I am mad as HE** at BL for being oblivious to the hell he sent Shaniya in to.
I am not going to judge how he should grieve, but I do think that "Child Trafficking" does need
a spokes person, and he may strong enough to be trained for that job.
He better do something good for other children, but it will never absolve him.

 

[Bobbisangel]

It bears repeating that the people charged with the crime - AD and McNeil are the ones RESPONSIBLE for the death of sweet Shaniya, and all this frustration about how a grieving father should or shouldn't act on TV belongs directed at the mom and McNeil and whoever else was involved with this.

I just don't buy that they were smart enough to pull this off.

I am concerned that it may be swept under the rug from LE. Hope not, but that is much more of a concern than how brad is reacting.

How smart does a person have to be for one to hand their little girl over to the other? The other takes the little girl to a hotel for an hour and then leaves. Later the little girl is found raped and dead in a wooded area. I don't think that takes to much brains. The trade off....the female either has a drug debt erased or she gets free drugs and the male gets to rape the female's little girl. Doesn't seem to complicated to me. Beings the male and female knew each other it was probably even easier to plan it out. The guy probably had enough money to set the female up with her drug of choice for awhile. An addict will do ANYTHING to get their drugs. In the jail pic of the female she looks like she is coming down big time or she sure has led a rough life.

The way Shaniya's father grieves is no concern of mine. I blame him because he believed everything that woman told him. He didn't bother to talk to anyone that knows her or go look in her house or anything else. He was leaving his little 5 yr old daughter to live with that woman. He wasn't just dropping off a gold fish in a bowl...this was a little girl. I just can't imagine deciding that it was time for my little girl to go live with her mother cause the mother needs to learn how to be a mother. And then not checking out one thing that she said. No, I don't think the father knew that the mother would do what she did but darn it was his responsibility to check that woman out before he ever even thought of leaving that baby with her. I think he wanted his freedom and if he didn't ask any questions then he wouldn't know the answers. I hope he does suffer from guilt for ever and ever. He should.

 

[songline]

How smart does a person have to be for one to hand their little girl over to the other? The other takes the little girl to a hotel for an hour and then leaves. Later the little girl is found raped and dead in a wooded area. I don't think that takes to much brains. The trade off....the female either has a drug debt erased or she gets free drugs and the male gets to rape the female's little girl. Doesn't seem to complicated to me. Beings the male and female knew each other it was probably even easier to plan it out. The guy probably had enough money to set the female up with her drug of choice for awhile. An addict will do ANYTHING to get their drugs. In the jail pic of the female she looks like she is coming down big time or she sure has led a rough life.

The way Shaniya's father grieves is no concern of mine. I blame him because he believed everything that woman told him. He didn't bother to talk to anyone that knows her or go look in her house or anything else. He was leaving his little 5 yr old daughter to live with that woman. He wasn't just dropping off a gold fish in a bowl...this was a little girl. I just can't imagine deciding that it was time for my little girl to go live with her mother cause the mother needs to learn how to be a mother. And then not checking one thing that she said out. No, I don't think the father knew that the mother would do what she did but darn it was his responsibility to check that woman out before he ever even thought of leaving that baby with her. I think he wanted his freedom and if he didn't ask any questions then he wouldn't know the truth. I hope he does suffer from guilt for ever and ever. He should.

I do NOT believe anything at all that BL or his sister say.

NATHA! NOTHING! ZILTCH! ZERO! :sick:

I only believe that they are hurting now.
CBL said it very clearly she did not trust AD and did not like her parenting. (not quoting)
CBL did not keep that a secret from her brother - NO way and NO how.
The fact that he did nothing with any input he got from friends and relatives is
totally nauseating about his character.
So... if his GF has not walked off yet? she is a huge idiot. JMHO

 

[DrMom68]

Well then be clear and back up the speculations. It sounds a lot more like veiled accusations. If there is proof that he did something other than poor judgment, I would certainly like to hear it. But not liking how someone presents himself after the most horrifying thing that could happen to his baby girl, does nothing as far as sleuthing.

I thought this was still in force? Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NC-Shaniya Davis, 5, Allegedly sold by mother 11/10/09 #21

AGREED. Also, I don't think BL's behavior is all that striking. People greive in different ways, as we all know. Some people need to be around other people, demonstrate affection, sometimes in awkward ways. They need constant reaffirmation that they are alive, because something inside them has died. I think we should lay of BL unless he is implicated in some way. Some will say he implicated himself by letting Shaniya go to her mom's. This may be true, but it is not a crime. AD and that monster are the criminals here.

 

[suzyq211]

<respectfully snipped>

I think he wanted his freedom and if he didn't ask any questions then he wouldn't know the answers.

My thoughts exactly!!!

 

[DrMom68]

But didn't he have freedom? He worked away from home for significant periods of time. His sister took care of Shaniya, in terms of the day-today. If anyone gave up their freedom, it was the aunt.

 

[not_my_kids]

In the lack of a formal custody arrangement, if the mother's rights have not been terminated or limited by a court, she holds legal right to that child. Thus the reason that an arrangement through the courts would have needed to be started upon BL's return...if he had any intention of returning for Shaniya at all.

And who's to say Carey didn't call them in...when you call a report in to CPS, the person that receives the report decides when and if to send it to a worker for review. You ca call a hundred times and if you keep getting a person that thinks your complaint is not important enough, the workers will never hear of it, let alone respond.

ETA: Possible other hypothetical situation. Carey defies BL, and the legal parent AD, who presses charges, and Carey is locked up for custodial interference, thus losing her kids to state care and any hope of further contact with Shaniya.
No arrangement means AD had the right to say, I want her home right now and not even BL could have objected. If he had no legal arrangement, he had no right to keep her or to tell anyone else to keep her.

 

[simonsmom]

If I were to sit a totally defenseless trusting five year old child on the edge of a gator infested swamp and walk away should I be a spokesman for "Stop gators from eating our children?" This child was sent into a filthy den of felons with two days of clothing and no one even bothered to walk her inside. The egg donor and her disgusting cohorts did what evil worthless people do. They killed her. What about those who had cared for her for years and in whom she had placed her love and trust? I wouldn't drop my dog off at a place I had never been inside of. BL should not be a spokesman for children. He SHOULD have been a spokesman for his child and she would still be alive. There is plenty of blame to go around here and I am tired of seeing NG get all syrupy over poor BL. Take him to task for the negligence which put her in such extreme danger. I agree that he was ready for a fresh start and didn't ask questions. Regardless what we learn about human trafficing this poor little girl did die in vein. It was senseless and it was avoidable.

 

[tlcya]

This may seem off topic while we are all debating BL's responsibility in all this but has anyone heard or does anyone have thoughts or theories about the actual evidence and charges filed in this case?

I am curious if there are any supersleuths out there who have knowledge about decomp rates, the body being located near deer carcasses and whether that would/could affect rate of Shaniya's decomposition (sorry sweet girl but it needs to be discussed)? Further I am curious if there are any experts on the thread that could enlighten me about what sort of evidence of rape might be available to the ME after the body was out in the elements for the time that it was post mortem. What phsyical evidence might LE have to support their charge of rape and suffocation?

Anybody? TIA

 

[Patty G]

Hypothetically thinking: IF Carey didn't hand over Shaniya and AD pressed charges against Carey, at least at some point someone would have looked into the situation.

IMO, even if Carey defied her brother's wishes, chances are Carey would have gotten a "slap on the wrist". Carey was just the "carpooler" for delivering Shaniya.

For all we know, Carey MAY have been told to deliver Shaniya on October 2nd, and decided not to take her there for another week. :waitasec:

Carey wouldn't lose her own children because Carey defied her brother. DCFS would have to show proof that Carey's own children were in harms-way and considering based on the scenario, Carey was concerned over the welfare of Shaniya.

I don't know if Carey called DCFS at any time between 10/2 - 10/9; chances are this never happened because IF it did, we would have heard about it during the many press conferences and national cable/prime shows.

 

[Patty G]

This may seem off topic while we are all debating BL's responsibility in all this but has anyone heard or does anyone have thoughts or theories about the actual evidence and charges filed in this case?

I am curious if there are any supersleuths out there who have knowledge about decomp rates, the body being located near deer carcasses and whether that would/could affect rate of Shaniya's decomposition (sorry sweet girl but it needs to be discussed)? Further I am curious if there are any experts on the thread that could enlighten me about what sort of evidence of rape might be available to the ME after the body was out in the elements for the time that it was post mortem. What phsyical evidence might LE have to support their charge of rape and suffocation?

Anybody? TIA

I am still wondering how LE charged AD with "human trafficking" based on a missing child report.

 

[Patty G]

But didn't he have freedom? He worked away from home for significant periods of time. His sister took care of Shaniya, in terms of the day-today. If anyone gave up their freedom, it was the aunt.

I thought about BL's time away from Shaniya. It looks like BL was with Shaniya 6 months out of the year. I am basing this on "working one month on and one month off from work."

 

[tlcya]

I am still wondering how LE charged AD with "human trafficking" based on a missing child report.

I am with you. I am wondering what brought the human trafficking charge in. Who fingered AD? There must have been some pretty compelling evidence IMOO. This is NOT a charge you see levelled against someone every day (although we know now that exploitation of this kind does happen way more than we'd like to think).

I want to know what LE has. :banghead:

 

[Muffet]

I am still wondering how LE charged AD with "human trafficking" based on a missing child report.

Me too, Patty. To spare my nerves, I've tried to pull away from following every minute of this case, but I keep checking just to see when we find this part out.

I can't believe they'd charge her with it based only on MAM's word, so there has to be a big chunk we're not being given - like the security video showing her give Shaniya to him? Or has her sister spilled?

 

[songline]

If I were to sit a totally defenseless trusting five year old child on the edge of a gator infested swamp and walk away should I be a spokesman for "Stop gators from eating our children?" This child was sent into a filthy den of felons with two days of clothing and no one even bothered to walk her inside. The egg donor and her disgusting cohorts did what evil worthless people do. They killed her. What about those who had cared for her for years and in whom she had placed her love and trust? I wouldn't drop my dog off at a place I had never been inside of. BL should not be a spokesman for children. He SHOULD have been a spokesman for his child and she would still be alive. There is plenty of blame to go around here and I am tired of seeing NG get all syrupy over poor BL. Take him to task for the negligence which put her in such extreme danger. I agree that he was ready for a fresh start and didn't ask questions. Regardless what we learn about human trafficing this poor little girl did die in vein. It was senseless and it was avoidable.

Good point.

 

[Muffet]

I am with you. I am wondering what brought the human trafficking charge in. Who fingered AD? There must have been some pretty compelling evidence IMOO. This is NOT a charge you see levelled against someone every day (although we know now that exploitation of this kind does happen way more than we'd like to think).

I want to know what LE has. :banghead:

LOL exactly!

...it's driving me nuts. :crazy:

 

[suzyq211]

But didn't he have freedom? He worked away from home for significant periods of time. His sister took care of Shaniya, in terms of the day-today. If anyone gave up their freedom, it was the aunt.

I know what you're saying, but when Carey or any of his friends/GF took Shaniya, he was still "technically" responsible. Maybe letting AD have her IN HIS MIND absolved him of that responsibility, if even for a little while. MOO ofcourse.

 

[not_my_kids]

Hypothetically thinking: IF Carey didn't hand over Shaniya and AD pressed charges against Carey, at least at some point someone would have looked into the situation.

IMO, even if Carey defied her brother's wishes, chances are Carey would have gotten a "slap on the wrist". Carey was just the "carpooler" for delivering Shaniya.

For all we know, Carey MAY have been told to deliver Shaniya on October 2nd, and decided not to take her there for another week. :waitasec:

Carey wouldn't lose her own children because Carey defied her brother. DCFS would have to show proof that Carey's own children were in harms-way and considering based on the scenario, Carey was concerned over the welfare of Shaniya.

I don't know if Carey called DCFS at any time between 10/2 - 10/9; chances are this never happened because IF it did, we would have heard about it during the many press conferences and national cable/prime shows.

that's a lovely illusion to have, but it's just that. The only state in the union that allows a non custodian to keep control of a child because of their doubts about the custodian is CA.
We don't know what we would have heard, or what the various players have been advised not to say.
And if a parent is going to jail, as in for custodial interference, that is enough reason in any state to remove children to state care.

It doesn't matter what the motivation is, keeping a child that is not legally yours is a crime. And if Carey could not get a statement from Shaniya that her mother abused her, and if she did not have solid or photographic proof of abuse, it's not good enough. She would likely have been charged if AD decided. And, yes, it would have led to an investigation, but in the meantime, Carey would likely have lost everything.