NM NM - Ingrid Lane, 37, Jemez Springs, 15 Oct 2023

[RickshawFan]

Since a K9 did not lead them to the found object, it would not then be able to track her away from it. Just as a K9 did not track her any good distance away from her car. She was walking on that road on Oct 15, wind, rain, snow, and time obliterated her scent trail soon after that.

IMO it makes no difference whether originally the dog led searchers to the found object or not. An item of the missing person can be presented to the dog, and then head off.

 

[RickshawFan]

Does this perhaps suggest an abduction? Would the K9 team not have been able to track Ingrid's scent if she'd walked further?

It’s not unusual at all for a person not to be found in wilderness areas.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

IMO it makes no difference whether originally the dog led searchers to the found object or not. An item of the missing person can be presented to the dog, and then head off.

How many times have you heard "He was tracked to blah blah and then the trail was lost"?
K9 tracking dogs follow a scent trail and it's not there after time and weather have destroyed it. A SAR dog that detects human scent could be taken to the area and find any humans (not a specific human) if the scent presents itself to the dog. But they also do not smell an object and then follow a scent trail after more than months have passed. Many claim they can do it after a couple of weeks have passed, but that depends on the circumstances too.
I'm not a dog handler but have assisted on many K9 tracks.

Using Air Scent Dogs

Effective Use of Dogs in Search Management article by David Godfrey-Smith.(reprint)

www.vsrda.org

 

[RickshawFan]

How many times have you heard "He was tracked to blah blah and then the trail was lost"?
K9 tracking dogs follow a scent trail and it's not there after time and weather have destroyed it. A SAR dog that detects human scent could be taken to the area and find any humans (not a specific human) if the scent presents itself to the dog. But they also do not smell an object and then follow a scent trail after more than months have passed. Many claim they can do it after a couple of weeks have passed, but that depends on the circumstances too.
I'm not a dog handler but have assisted on many K9 tracks.

Using Air Scent Dogs

Effective Use of Dogs in Search Management article by David Godfrey-Smith.(reprint)

www.vsrda.org

Indeed. Scents disperse quite quickly. I had no argument with that.

 

[Caring1]

Ingrid has been added to NamUs.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[Protectwomenandgirls]

Where are you Ingrid?

 

[Laughing]

The ski areas in New Mexico are still open -- likely there is still enough snow cover to hinder any searchers.

Maybe warmer weather will bring some answers?

 

[tarabull]

there is a recent (feb 2024) blog post out there by a close friend of Ingrid, wish it was allowed here.
better yet, wish she would join us here.

 

[Howl]

there is a recent (feb 2024) blog post out there by a close friend of Ingrid, wish it was allowed here.

Thank you. It's a touching essay about friendship, regret and a beautiful tribute to a lovely person. Easily found with a quick Google search.

 

[Protectwomenandgirls]

Ingrid's twin sister Kelsey posted on the official FB that upon accessing Ingrid's computer she was able to determine that Ingrid did not bring the proper gear to stay overnight on the route that they believe she took up the mountain.

There are a lot of updates and comments from family that I missed on FB from a couple of months ago, around Jan 2024. Nothing significant, unfortunately, but this detail really stuck out

Why would she refuse help around 2pm and keep hiking up the mountain if she didn't have the gear to stay overnight? Did she plan on staying in a shelter up there? Was the lack of supplies part of a meditation plan? There's so much that doesn't make sense. All I can think of is that she was driven to make it up that mountain, and I understand the calling

I rely on the wilderness for healing, especially when I'm most desperate; I've never found anything else that gives me the will to keep living. I can't even fathom being in her situation, my heart hearts so much thinking of her alone and unprepared out in the mountains

 

[Protectwomenandgirls]

I always keep this with me and read it often:

"Accidents in the mountains are less common than in the lowlands, and these mountain mansions are decent, delightful, even divine, places to die in, compared with the doleful chambers of civilization. Few places in this world are more dangerous than home. Fear not, therefore, to try the mountain-passes. They will kill care, save you from deadly apathy, set you free, and call forth every faculty into vigorous, enthusiastic action. Even the sick should try these so-called dangerous passes, because for every unfortunate they kill, they cure a thousand."

John Muir

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*Four months ago:

 

[RickshawFan]

Ingrid's twin sister Kelsey posted on the official FB that upon accessing Ingrid's computer she was able to determine that Ingrid did not bring the proper gear to stay overnight on the route that they believe she took up the mountain.

There are a lot of updates and comments from family that I missed on FB from a couple of months ago, around Jan 2024. Nothing significant, unfortunately, but this detail really stuck out

Why would she refuse help around 2pm and keep hiking up the mountain if she didn't have the gear to stay overnight? Did she plan on staying in a shelter up there? Was the lack of supplies part of a meditation plan? There's so much that doesn't make sense. All I can think of is that she was driven to make it up that mountain, and I understand the calling

I rely on the wilderness for healing, especially when I'm most desperate; I've never found anything else that gives me the will to keep living. I can't even fathom being in her situation, my heart hearts so much thinking of her alone and unprepared out in the mountains

I believe we had concluded from the get-go that Ingrid can’t have taken overnight gear. Perhaps this came from the comments of when she was last seen headed up the road. Overnight gear would look bulky, and I don’t believe anything was said about that.

She does seem to have been driven to go up the mountain. Even if she was on the wrong road, perhaps she needed to clear her head regardless. Perhaps she’d heard secondhand of some trail or other. If she had found her way to the real trailhead for the mountain, she might have realized it would be very late in the day and not good for hiking at all.

 

[RickshawFan]

I always keep this with me and read it often:

"Accidents in the mountains are less common than in the lowlands, and these mountain mansions are decent, delightful, even divine, places to die in, compared with the doleful chambers of civilization. Few places in this world are more dangerous than home. Fear not, therefore, to try the mountain-passes. They will kill care, save you from deadly apathy, set you free, and call forth every faculty into vigorous, enthusiastic action. Even the sick should try these so-called dangerous passes, because for every unfortunate they kill, they cure a thousand."

John Muir

The problem is, wilderness is killing way more folks than it used to, because of population growth, access, lack of knowledge, false confidence, failure to research conditions, failure to take maps and other necessities, no planning for emergencies e.g a headlamp, which can be life and death equipment even on an intended short hike). Accidents are so common, SAR is overextended, and the NPS now has armies of volunteers to head off folks who look like they might get into trouble (e.g. no water, inadequate footwear, dangerously exposed to heat or sun, no pack for a strenuous hike)…
In the “old days” (into the 1960’s in some places), it would take days (no roads) even to get to a mountain before you could climb it. There would be mule trains and basecamps, there was tried-and-true wisdom about what to carry (this is still true in historied clubs, but outside of those, folks are quite blasé IME) and what to wear. There were no guidebooks, incidentally (even well into the 1980’s in the Cascades where I hiked): you’d know the trails from more experienced members and took maps.

 

[RickshawFan]

I am speculating Ingrid got a head injury in her “accident” (whatever type it was, but at any rate, in the vicinity of her car), and that the damage didn't kick in right away. She may have become dehydrated and had a sugar crash right then, too. Perhaps exacerbated by the exertion of dealing with the car. This would make for brain-mess.

 

[Laughing]

The problem is, wilderness is killing way more folks than it used to, because of population growth, access, lack of knowledge, false confidence, failure to research conditions, failure to take maps and other necessities, no planning for emergencies e.g a headlamp, which can be life and death equipment even on an intended short hike). Accidents are so common, SAR is overextended, and the NPS now has armies of volunteers to head off folks who look like they might get into trouble (e.g. no water, inadequate footwear, dangerously exposed to heat or sun, no pack for a strenuous hike)…
In the “old days” (into the 1960’s in some places), it would take days (no roads) even to get to a mountain before you could climb it. There would be mule trains and basecamps, there was tried-and-true wisdom about what to carry (this is still true in historied clubs, but outside of those, folks are quite blasé IME) and what to wear. There were no guidebooks, incidentally (even well into the 1980’s in the Cascades where I hiked): you’d know the trails from more experienced members and took maps.

bbm

jmho, but ignorance is costing people their lives -- not the wilderness itself.

You must love the desert, but never trust it completely. Because the desert tests all men, it challenges every step and kills those who become distracted. The Alchemist, The Alchemist, Paul Coelho

 

[RickshawFan]

bbm

jmho, but ignorance is costing people their lives -- not the wilderness itself.

You must love the desert, but never trust it completely. Because the desert tests all men, it challenges every step and kills those who become distracted. The Alchemist, The Alchemist, Paul Coelho

Yes ignorance, but IMO also unwillingness to be humble, undue risk-taking, lack of insight, thinking there's no benefit in learning from older, more experienced, folks, going with a club, or taking rigorous skill lessons, having a hero-complex, not caring if you kill others while getting your jollies, ease at getting to major wilderness venues, enticements from SM, especially Instagram photos.....

 

[Protectwomenandgirls]

Yes ignorance, but IMO also unwillingness to be humble, undue risk-taking, lack of insight, thinking there's no benefit in learning from older, more experienced, folks, going with a club, or taking rigorous skill lessons, having a hero-complex, not caring if you kill others while getting your jollies, ease at getting to major wilderness venues, enticements from SM, especially Instagram photos.....

Especially the social media & apps!
Does anyone know if the Alltrails track that Ingrid downloaded was accurate? We stopped using Alltrails a long time ago because many of the tracks are incorrect and thus extremely dangerous