Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

[fringles]

It would be interesting to know when and where her phone pinged until it was found.
Was the phone on all the time?
Can the pings show she was moving from the home that morning driving here and there? Maybe like driving to an area somewhere she could have gotten mud on her car? (If we believe that piece of rumor.)
Was her phone off from the time she left home (alive or dead) and then magically began to ping before the husband found it?
When was the first attempt made to locate her phone?
If I understand correctly, this is an iPhone we are talking about, so what about GPS coordinates?

These are all things I've thought about so much. I assume LE knows (though if they don't have phone records yet, then maybe not) and I imagine they'd be super helpful to figuring out what happened.

If I were running away, I would turn my phone off before throwing it (if I threw it, which I probably wouldn't). If I was abducting someone, I would turn their phone off before throwing it. The fact that the phone was able to be located where it was implies that it was on when it hit that spot. That makes little sense to me.

iphones famously store a log of your movements (not GPS, cell-tower, so can be off) on your computer every time you back up. So presuming LE have her phone and her computer they can see where she was in the day or two prior to her going missing.

http://ihnatko.com/2011/04/20/hey-wonderful-theres-a-location-tracking-file-on-my-iphone/

The more I think about it, given the fact that she was very attached to her phone, and that they've recovered it, as well as the home computers, hopefully they should have some pretty good ideas about what her movements were that day.

 

[OffRoadRunner]

The fact that the phone was able to be located where it was implies that it was on when it hit that spot. That makes little sense to me.

respectfully, sniped

How long can an iPhone battery last. It was a day and a half in the cold?

Yes, hopefully they have good forensic evidence from those devices.

 

[fringles]

respectfully, sniped

How long can an iPhone battery last. It was a day and a half in the cold?

Yes, hopefully they have good forensic evidence from those devices.

I did a bit of research on that, and if it was new, if it was fully charged and with a bit of luck, it could, in theory, last that long.

Lot of 'ifs' though. The idea that she may have had a case for it was raised, but if she didn't I highly doubt it would've lived overnight outdoors - or survived being thrown there.

 

[Orgona]

Hopefully LE is very busy figuring out all this things and hopefully they had permission to examine all of her records and devices.

Isn't iPhone's NR.1 enemy the water? What was the weather like? Was at that time of the year in the mornings and evenings a sort of dew (Is this the right word?) on the ground? If so, how serious would that be for an iPhone would it happen to lay around say for a night and a morning in it?

 

[fringles]

Isn't iPhone's NR.1 enemy the water? What was the weather like? Was at that time of the year in the mornings and evenings a sort of dew (Is this the right word?) on the ground? If so, how serious would that be for an iPhone would it happen to lay around say for a night and a morning in it?

I would say almost for sure that if a phone without a case was outdoors overnight it wouldn't be alive in the morning.

However, two things that make this less meaningful:

- The 'find my iphone' app, if a phone is off or dead, will display the location where the phone was last on. So as long as JR's phone was on and working when it hit the location, it would still be able to be found there using the app even if it died afterward.

- A poster (can't remember who sorry!) mentioned cases - you can get waterproof, dropproof iphone cases. If she had one of those it increases the chance of the phone surviving by a lot.

 

[Orgona]

I would say almost for sure that if a phone without a case was outdoors overnight it wouldn't be alive in the morning.

However, two things that make this less meaningful:

- The 'find my iphone' app, if a phone is off or dead, will display the location where the phone was last on. So as long as JR's phone was on and working when it hit the location, it would still be able to be found there using the app even if it died afterward.

- A poster (can't remember who sorry!) mentioned cases - you can get waterproof, dropproof iphone cases. If she had one of those it increases the chance of the phone surviving by a lot.

I agree with all you said and now I too remember reading the same info about the cover . I hope police have noted if there was such a cover on it or not. Agreed, this question would only become meaningful IF at the time LE came to collect it, there wasn't a waterproof/dropproof cover on it and still was on and/or unharmed and operational. (I would say operationable but I think that's not a real word, or is it?)

 

[OffRoadRunner]

Ok, phone found on 12 Dec, one day after she disappeared. Car not found until the 16th. From Norwich, the location of where the car was found would have to be driven by to get out to where the phone was found. Norwich City Police routinely park across from that parking lot of where the car was found - facing the direction of the parking lot looking for speeders coming into the city because it is a speed zone change right there. In addition, a school bus uses that parking lot to turn around every day.

If people were on the "lookout" for a van with her van's description, I would think her van would have been found before 5 days after her disappearance if it had been sitting in that parking lot the entire time. And found by someone other than her father.

I find this very odd. It leads me to believe that the van was staged there. Any thoughts on that.

 

[OffRoadRunner]

Also, can't rule out Witness Protection Program..... I mean, were they really married. Were these her kids? They are not originally from here. How long have they lived in the Chenango County area. They've moved around it seems. Is her disappearance to protect her? Would explain the "None public LE side of things" as this is something they would know. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Hexe]

I would say almost for sure that if a phone without a case was outdoors overnight it wouldn't be alive in the morning.

However, two things that make this less meaningful:

- The 'find my iphone' app, if a phone is off or dead, will display the location where the phone was last on. So as long as JR's phone was on and working when it hit the location, it would still be able to be found there using the app even if it died afterward.

- A poster (can't remember who sorry!) mentioned cases - you can get waterproof, dropproof iphone cases. If she had one of those it increases the chance of the phone surviving by a lot.

The fall is not the only problem here. The day Jennifer went missing it was pretty cold, the temperature oscillated around freezing. Then during the night it dropped even lower You can check it here:

http://www.wxusa.com/wx1/wx.php?config=&forecast=zandh&pands=Norwich%2C+NY&Submit=GO

The lowest temperature that night was 24, 1 F. That means cold. It was probably even colder near the ground, and mind you the phone was lying ON A SNOW COVERED GROUND. What means DARN COLD. What chances of surviving, without permanently damaged battery and broken electronics has a phone left on for almost two days in a freezing cold?

 

[Londonrraine]

:welcome4: Sleepinoz!

Very good thinking there too, IMO!

 

[Londonrraine]

:tyou: For the many kind words & wishes. You guys are great!

 

[fringles]

Here's what I found on operating temperatures for iphones:

* Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C)
* Nonoperating temperature: -4° to 113° F (-20° to 45° C)
* Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
* Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)

So it might've been ok, might not've, but from what I've read the only thing that happens in extreme cold is that the phone is less responsive, and that upon warming it returns to normal function.

One thing I would like to know - how's phone reception in that area? Anyone local got any reports?

 

[fringles]

Ok, phone found on 12 Dec, one day after she disappeared. Car not found until the 16th. From Norwich, the location of where the car was found would have to be driven by to get out to where the phone was found. Norwich City Police routinely park across from that parking lot of where the car was found - facing the direction of the parking lot looking for speeders coming into the city because it is a speed zone change right there. In addition, a school bus uses that parking lot to turn around every day.

If people were on the "lookout" for a van with her van's description, I would think her van would have been found before 5 days after her disappearance if it had been sitting in that parking lot the entire time. And found by someone other than her father.

I find this very odd. It leads me to believe that the van was staged there. Any thoughts on that.

I'd love to know how her dad came to find the car. Was he just driving around the area the phone was found, hoping to spot it? Did anyone direct his search? Was he looking specifically for the vehicle?

If it was 'covered in mud' - which I, since it came up on a missing poster, happen to believe:

On the 10th, according to weather.com, there was rain in Norwich, and on the 11th, snow. From the 12th-15th it was sunny then on the 16th it rained.

Wondering, at that time of year, how muddy it is - for instance, if it rained on the 10th, would the sun on the 12th-15th have been enough to dry the mud out in most places?

Total conjecture but what if the car got stuck somewhere on the 11th after the rain, and couldn't be retrieved until the 15th when the mud had dried? Then was taken to the carpark on that date?

I do think it's possible that the car could've sat unnnoticed in the carpark. Whether it's likely I don't know.

 

[Jilllian]

Ok, phone found on 12 Dec, one day after she disappeared. Car not found until the 16th. From Norwich, the location of where the car was found would have to be driven by to get out to where the phone was found. Norwich City Police routinely park across from that parking lot of where the car was found - facing the direction of the parking lot looking for speeders coming into the city because it is a speed zone change right there. In addition, a school bus uses that parking lot to turn around every day.

If people were on the "lookout" for a van with her van's description, I would think her van would have been found before 5 days after her disappearance if it had been sitting in that parking lot the entire time. And found by someone other than her father.

I find this very odd. It leads me to believe that the van was staged there. Any thoughts on that.

Good point, ORR. Also, it's not a very big apartment complex. Three buildings, close together, right? I would think a resident would notice a car parked in the same spot for 5 days, with no movement at all, especially a car that didn't belong there.

 

[Jilllian]

I still don't understand why it took GR 1 1/2 days to even use the iPhone tracker app to begin with. Any thoughts?

 

[Orgona]

Good point, ORR. Also, it's not a very big apartment complex. Three buildings, close together, right? I would think a resident would notice a car parked in the same spot for 5 days, with no movement at all, especially a car that didn't belong there.

Unfortunately this day and age many people are just minding their own business. Not everyone begins to look out for a missing person's car they saw on the news or in the paper, except if they have some sort of connection to the person like they can say that's an XY's husband, wife, cousin, friend, the cashier they always saw etc.

Even if they saw that car parking there for a 5 or so days, they could have thought the person is a visitor of someone in those buildings, and is moving around together with their friend or family they visited, hence the visitor's own car stays parked there.

Of course there also could have been some nosy person living there who could have noticed a strange vehicle and could have known exactly when it got there, only wasn't aware this car was missing from somewhere so did not reported it.

I can see both being the case.

However, after the car was found, hopefully LE has spoken to the people living and parking there and was able to determine how long ago it appeared there. Because even the people who haven't thought much of it at first, could remember the first time they saw it. Maybe it was parked in their favorite spot...

 

[Orgona]

I still don't understand why it took GR 1 1/2 days to even use the iPhone tracker app to begin with. Any thoughts?

To be fair she disappeared on 12.11.2012 and the phone was found on 12.12.2012. Or am I wrong?
I find it more fishy that he didn't ring the person in charge of the investigation to tell him that he has the App which shows a location and he was going out to get the phone now. Why wasn't he going with LE to retrieve it?

 

[enzeder]

To be fair she disappeared on 12.11.2012 and the phone was found on 12.12.2012. Or am I wrong?
I find it more fishy that he didn't ring the person in charge of the investigation to tell him that he has the App which shows a location and he was going out to get the phone now. Why wasn't he going with LE to retrieve it?

I've been wondering if the phone may have been placed there on the same night that it was found. Just a thought. IMO

 

[Hexe]

So it might've been ok, might not've, but from what I've read the only thing that happens in extreme cold is that the phone is less responsive, and that upon warming it returns to normal function.

How long this extreme cold lasts in the normal conditions, though? You don't spend twenty four hours outside, with your phone, right? And usually this phone is placed in your pocket, warmed by the bodyheat, not plainly out in the cold.

And yes, I've read about dying batteries and damaged electronics in the phones left out in the cold for too long. And my brother in law actually broke his phone, leaving it in the car for the night in winter. It just went dead.

 

[fringles]

And yes, I've read about dying batteries and damaged electronics in the phones left out in the cold for too long. And my brother in law actually broke his phone, leaving it in the car for the night in winter. It just went dead.

(respectfully snipped)

This is good to know - thanks