NY - Mari Gilbert, mother of Shannan Gilbert, murdered by daughter Sarra, 23 July 2016

New Posts

Just a reminder for us to be thoughtful about what we post as the family may read here. I am personally hurt by the "should have" type discussions.
 
Stripehaven said:
This is just too horrifying. I recall seeing Mari and at least one of Shannan's sisters on 48 Hours or a similar show about the Long Island cases. A younger sister at one point was taunted by phone calls from someone claiming to have killed Shannan and offering hideous detail. I don't recall that sister's name. This poor, poor family. It is heartbreaking.
Click to expand...
Mari and her daughters did appear on 48hrs. Her daughter Shannan was missing. The search for her lead to the discovery of a serial killers dumping ground. One of the victims was Melissa Barthlemy. The killer used her phone to call Melissas little sister. You can see it on youtube 48 hrs long island serial killer.
 
I don't think that was shannan's sister. I think that was Melissa barthelemy's sister.

Stripehaven said:
This is just too horrifying. I recall seeing Mari and at least one of Shannan's sisters on 48 Hours or a similar show about the Long Island cases. A younger sister at one point was taunted by phone calls from someone claiming to have killed Shannan and offering hideous detail. I don't recall that sister's name. This poor, poor family. It is heartbreaking.
Click to expand...
 
I'm sure Mari felt like she was doing her best in trying to help a child with mental illness. And it is hard to see or figure out everything a caregiver needs to be doing. But in this case, I strongly feel like the ongoing problems with Sarra needed to include much more interaction with her doc. Parents and or caregivers needn't try to handle everything alone. The lines of communication need to be open and utilized. No caregiver should have to do it by themselves. Much too stressful and overwhelming.
 
MOO, I think everyone on this thread has had real compassion and empathy for all concerned in this tragedy. There's always a need to ask how something could have been avoided, but I just don't see where anyone has said anything to be scolded over.

I only feel sorrow for all concerned including Sarra.

http://www.newsday.com/news/region-...t-hearing-for-mom-s-fatal-stabbing-1.12096000

“I love my family and I’m very sorry . . . ” a handcuffed Gilbert, clad in an orange jailhouse jumpsuit, told reporters...
Click to expand...

Sarra Gilbert has schizophrenia and made it clear in a closed-door meeting with Parker before the hearing that she wanted to enter a guilty plea, said Ray, who also attended the meeting...
Click to expand...
 
People are just trying to figure out what went wrong. Clearly something went wrong and the aftermath has left 2 broken siblings and a son. It is extremely sad. There is nothing wrong with looking for answers.
 
Seeing a way to avoid things like this happening is constructive. We had happen a few years back in Atlantic city a Canadian mom and daughter tourists stabbed to death in the street by a mentally ill woman. This woman was off her meds and took a bus from philly to AC with a knife.
 
I think it's appropriate to ask-- how often was she seen by her doctor prescribing her medication?
Every week, two weeks, every month, every six weeks? Did that doctor also actually talk with her, not just ask a few routine questions? How long was she off her meds? Yes, I do wish this could've been stopped in some way before Mari lost her life.

Ray said Sarra Gilbert, who had been hospitalized in the last year for her mental health issues, was not taking her medication and was “hearing voices” in the days before the killing and had been fighting with family members for custody of her son, now living with his father’s family.

Sarra Gilbert is due back in court Aug. 16.

http://www.newsday.com/news/region-...t-hearing-for-mom-s-fatal-stabbing-1.12096000
Click to expand...
 
Curious Me said:
I think it's appropriate to ask-- how often was she seen by her doctor prescribing her medication?
Every week, two weeks, every month, every six weeks? Did that doctor also actually talk with her, not just ask a few routine questions? How long was she off her meds? Yes, I do wish this could've been stopped in some way before Mari lost her life.
Click to expand...

I read she was out on bail for killing the puppy by drowning when she did this to Mari. I wonder why she wasn't committed then and who posted her bail. Sometimes people mean well and think they are helping.

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/...-reportedly-heard-voices-and-drowne/21439242/
 
I agree. If there had been an intervention when the incident with the puppy occurred, things might have prevented this terrible crime.
I am pretty sure that Sarra would have been scheduled to see a counselor at least every two weeks, and the doc prescribing her meds at least every 60 days. But, each individual is different, so she might have been scheduled to more or less counseling sessions, depending on the need.
 
In everything we've heard and read, Mari had four daughters and was a single mother. Do the girls have a dad who is living, does anybody know if he has a relationship with his daughters, or if he is still living? Having a dad to lean on right now would help tremendously, I believe. I haven't heard mention of a dad in anything I've read
 
glf said:
She either had the wool pulled over Mari's eyes, or mom could have just subconsciously chose not to see it. And I definitely believe there was a lack of communication between Mari and the others who were a part of Sarra's life. Hearing about the arrest in Feb., I think the doc should have been notified immediately! And the ex needs his head examined for allowing his son to be with Sarra unsupervised.
Click to expand...

Do we know if the father "allowed it" or if it was court ordered that the mom have custody?

ETA:
I may have answered my own question. Wonder how long the Protective Order was supposed to last. Bold by me:

Sarra Gilbert has a criminal record, according to court documents. She was charged with second-degree criminal contempt after her child’s father, Emmanuel Martinez, reported to police April 28 that Gilbert had violated a temporary order of protection that ordered her to stay away from him and their 7-year-old son, according to Ellenville Village Court records.
http://www.newsday.com/news/region-state/shannan-gilbert-s-mom-repeatedly-stabbed-killed-docs-say-1.12088031
 
Unfortunately this case ended up just as I thought. A person with a big mental health problem not taking their meds. I think this happens so much of the time because something attached to the actual illness convinces the patient's subconscious they don't need their meds. Since there is no legal way to make a person take their meds, families and caregivers have to get really creative to get the meds into the pt. I have had pts refuse meds, with the same rationale they believe there doing fine and no longer need their meds. We usually crush their meds and mix it in pudding or another good they enjoy. For the most part, it works, but I'm sure it would be more difficult in the home setting.
 
Warning--I'm probably about to bore all of you including myself, but I'll share what I looked up...forgive me.
Also, let me add, even if this law is in effect in NY, it would require a great deal of persistence and attention to know when Sarra went off her medication and act quickly to stop the tragedy that occurred. Family members can't be expected to have professional assessment abilities of the patient at all times, IMO. Anyways...

I've been reading up on KENDRA'S LAW which the state of New York has in effect. It's tedious to read these legal rules, and they are hard to understand. The subject is huge! Only those in the field, or those who have a serious mentally ill family member would attempt to know the technicalities of these laws.

Both Kendra's Law in NY, and Laura's Law in CA are a way to force treatment on someone deemed a danger to themselves or others if they have a certain past history and meet other guidelines. Yes, there's controversy connected to forcing someone into treatment having to do with their human rights, but it does provide some legal way to keep a patient in treatment. However, it requires someone filing a petition and the courts cooperation. Just wondering why something like this wasn't in place due to Sarra's incident with the dog and almost harming her son, and past hospitalizations. Was she on an order to comply to outpatient treatment through Kendra's Law?

From what I can grasp, if the patient refuses an outpatient program and refuses to comply with the medication, then the next step would be a 72 hr. evaluation, and then a legally approved longer stay in a inpatient mental facility could be legally deemed through the process.

Kendra's Law
http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/kendras-law/kendras-law-guide.html
see section -- What if a consumer fails to comply with an assisted outpatient treatment order?

Will the mental health system petition for me?
Kendra’s Law allows families and others to petition the court to place someone in assisted outpatient treatment. But it is easier and less costly if the mental health system, rather than relatives, files the petition. However, New York’s mental health system is notoriously reluctant to file petitions, so you must be persistent. In case it ever becomes necessary, below are some tips on convincing mental health authorities to file a petition for your loved one.
Hospitals: For a relative who is in a hospital, families should try to convince the hospital to file a petition before the person is discharged. Ask the doctor. If he or she refuses, you should appeal to the director of psychiatry and hospital director. The higher up you go, the more likely you are to get what is needed.​
Click to expand...

​
 
No,family members and caregivers are not expected to know when a person may go off their meds, nor are they expected to recognize the little things that come about when a person first stops their meds. In this case, the judge who arraigned her for killing the puppy should have looked into this a little better, and ordered her to see her counselor and her doc as a stipulation of her being released on bond. But, that didn't happen, and the people in her life didn't see these problems as dangerous as they were. Rarely,if ever, do people with mental illness "get better" after they stop taking their meds. Things escalate, as in Sarra's case, and I cannot imagine why nobody picked up on the signs that something was going on with her emotional and mental state and she had become dangerous. It is very difficult to love somebody you know has mental illness, and try to be objective and help them, because your emotions make you feel guilty if you have to intervene and the person is sent to the hospital. The ill person may think you are mean because you had them hospitalized, the old "if you loved me you wouldn't have done this", and then you feel guilty, even if you know you did the right thing. It can seem like a vicious cycle with no end sometimes. Nobody should blame the family, they can beat themselves up without outside help. It is just a very stressful situation not only for families and caregivers, but also for the person suffering with the disease.
 
you cannot be more right. my son became psychotic from the steroids he took while undergoing chemo, and it is the most awful feeling of guilt and very hard not to take personal when they lash out at you. I had to have him admitted and he told me he hated me and that if i died, he was not going to my funeral. he told the psychiatrist that he did not feel like killing anyone now, but he felt like killing my husband earlier that day. they rx him two meds and he got better, but a week later i could tell he was starting to go off the rails again and i told him that I was going to talk to his doctor and he said "you BETTER NOT HAVE ME ADMITTED AGAIN! I WILL HATE YOU FOREVER!"

thank God my son's condition was only temporary, I cant imagine dealing with it forever. Strength to all who have mental illness and their loved ones.

glf said:
No,family members and caregivers are not expected to know when a person may go off their meds, nor are they expected to recognize the little things that come about when a person first stops their meds. In this case, the judge who arraigned her for killing the puppy should have looked into this a little better, and ordered her to see her counselor and her doc as a stipulation of her being released on bond. But, that didn't happen, and the people in her life didn't see these problems as dangerous as they were. Rarely,if ever, do people with mental illness "get better" after they stop taking their meds. Things escalate, as in Sarra's case, and I cannot imagine why nobody picked up on the signs that something was going on with her emotional and mental state and she had become dangerous. It is very difficult to love somebody you know has mental illness, and try to be objective and help them, because your emotions make you feel guilty if you have to intervene and the person is sent to the hospital. The ill person may think you are mean because you had them hospitalized, the old "if you loved me you wouldn't have done this", and then you feel guilty, even if you know you did the right thing. It can seem like a vicious cycle with no end sometimes. Nobody should blame the family, they can beat themselves up without outside help. It is just a very stressful situation not only for families and caregivers, but also for the person suffering with the disease.
Click to expand...
 
glf said:
She either had the wool pulled over Mari's eyes, or mom could have just subconsciously chose not to see it. And I definitely believe there was a lack of communication between Mari and the others who were a part of Sarra's life. Hearing about the arrest in Feb., I think the doc should have been notified immediately! And the ex needs his head examined for allowing his son to be with Sarra unsupervised.
Click to expand...

most people don't understand mental illness often strikes the highly intelligent , you can make people think you are fine, and then of course there is mental illness with rage assoc. w/ it this type you can work, cook clean, maintain until that moment that a panic attack throws you into rage! there is no way to describe being fine one moment for days , weeks .....months then boom you want to explode out of nowhere, (personal experience) but do they need to be in a mental facility NO, most of the time all functioning is ok , are they capable or murder and absolute horror in that state YES........so really what can you do ???? ( been dealing with this all my life if there is an answer I want to know it.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 160 more.
Total: 4,096 (members: 161, guests: 3,935)

Online statistics

Members online
161
Guests online
3,935
Total visitors
4,096
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,527
Messages
17,970,389
Members
228,794
Latest member
EnvyofAngels
Back
Top