GUILTY NY - Twins Ises & Moorfiyah Mathurin, 3 mos, smothered, 20 Oct 2005

[kgeaux]

I haven't heard of allergic reaction to soy milk although it's possible I guess. Both of mine were allergic to regular baby formula and put on soy formula by their pediatrician. I would think cornmeal would not be a good thing for such a small babies digestive system. But apparently it's what they always fed their children.

One of my sons was allergic to soy. He was also allergic to cows milk and corn, and every single formula is based on one of those three ingredients. He had to drink goat's milk.

I can't imagine dying from a soy allergy, however. All it did to Matt was make him break out with eczema.

I hate to say it, but luthersmom might be on the right track. Might not be heroin, but it does sound like something was accidentally put into the cornmeal formula.

 

[pjop]

I hate to say it, but luthersmom might be on the right track. Might not be heroin, but it does sound like something was accidentally put into the cornmeal formula.

Years ago I saw some documentary on tv. The mother gave birth to twin girls but it was dishonerable in whatever country this was. Boys were more highly regarded. She killed them both by mixing up some mush that they both choked on. This was on TV sometime in 92 or 93 because I had just had my twin girls in 92 and I know they were babies at the time I watched it. Does anyone else remember seeing this??

 

[angelmom]

Oh sorry, I wasn't clear i guess. I said it in the ealrier post..accidental rollover, meaning the mom rolled over on the babies.
It was a very sad show. BTW, this is a true story.

Sorry! You were very clear in the first post. I went right to the second one and read the link, and both were very mysterious (so as not to ruin the ending for a viewer, which I do appreciate)! It made me want to watch the episode, but I didn't see it on the schedule for the near future.

I'm surprised that Dr. B found that she rolled over on all three of them. When I got into it with someone about whether or not it was safe to cosleep with an infant, the research I did found that in virtually all cases where a parent rolls over on a child and harms or kills the child, the parent is on medication, alcohol, or drugs that prevent them from waking when the child cries out. From my own personal experience, I know that when my arm got too heavy on my 2 week old daughter's LEG one time, she gave such a yell that you'd have thought I was pinching her! I was just cuddling her more than she wanted and she let me know it. I think Oprah did a show about this about 4 years ago as well, and all of the people whose children died were medicated or had been drinking or using drugs. The one guy who hadn't was woken by his child and the child was fine.

And still, the odds of rolling over on BOTH of your twins in one night? I'd like to see the episode. I'm not sure I'm there.

 

[JBean]

Sorry! You were very clear in the first post. I went right to the second one and read the link, and both were very mysterious (so as not to ruin the ending for a viewer, which I do appreciate)! It made me want to watch the episode, but I didn't see it on the schedule for the near future.

I'm surprised that Dr. B found that she rolled over on all three of them. When I got into it with someone about whether or not it was safe to cosleep with an infant, the research I did found that in virtually all cases where a parent rolls over on a child and harms or kills the child, the parent is on medication, alcohol, or drugs that prevent them from waking when the child cries out. From my own personal experience, I know that when my arm got too heavy on my 2 week old daughter's LEG one time, she gave such a yell that you'd have thought I was pinching her! I was just cuddling her more than she wanted and she let me know it. I think Oprah did a show about this about 4 years ago as well, and all of the people whose children died were medicated or had been drinking or using drugs. The one guy who hadn't was woken by his child and the child was fine.

And still, the odds of rolling over on BOTH of your twins in one night? I'd like to see the episode. I'm not sure I'm there.

Maybe she was drinking AM....I watched the show in the middle of the night and I really don't recall the details. I only remembered it at all because this story jogged my memory.
I 100% agree with you about the the odds of this happening being so minute.
I'm not a Baden fan anyway..so who knows!


ETA: I just checked at a n HBO forum board and they said that she had been out that night and had been drinking. Still, THREE babies? Drinking or no, still must be astronomical odds, if true.

 

[jannuncutt]

Oh God. I didn't even think of that. That would be awful.

..........there is absolutely no reason to think that.

 

[Eagle1]

It's been about 40 yrs, but I seem to remember vaccinations started at about 3 mo. Nobody's mentioned if these twin boys had their first shot.

Is it still a series, a shot each month for 3 mo.?

I wonder how many kids have died from ingesting corn that young and the cause was never determined.

 

[vanillasky]

Maybe she was drinking AM....I watched the show in the middle of the night and I really don't recall the details. I only remembered it at all because this story jogged my memory.
I 100% agree with you about the the odds of this happening being so minute.
I'm not a Baden fan anyway..so who knows!


ETA: I just checked at a n HBO forum board and they said that she had been out that night and had been drinking. Still, THREE babies? Drinking or no, still must be astronomical odds, if true.

I watched the episode too... and that is correct about her drinking. The worst part was.... she said she had not been out with friends for several years - since before her children were born. This was the 1st night in all that time that she had decided to get away for an evening with friends. If I recall correctly - she was very, very intoxicated, and slept w/ the twins on a daybed. I love the show Autopsy, but I thought it went over the line w/ this case... telling a mother on camera that it was her fault that her twins had died from rolling over on them. She was so distraught she got up and left the room crying.... but later came back from Baden to finish telling her. Of course, I know she consented to the taping and agreed to be on the show, but IMO it was a little much to do that to a grieving mother.

It was determined the 1st baby she lost had died of SIDS though, correct?

 

[CyberLaw]

They are looking into food poisioning from the Soy and Cornmeal.....

The twins were fed at 7:00 a.m. and were found unresponsive at 12:00.

That would perclude any "vaccination" deaths, which "some" people seem to like to blame for everything...........

IF the twins had an allergic reaction to a vaccine, and that is a big IF, then the reactions happens(very rarely) quite quickly as it is an allergic reaction.

So "so much" for trying to blame "vaccination" on this one also.............

Kind of like blaming the "unknown" case of HIV on the "shaking" of hands with a HIV+ person, as we all know, that is false also............

 

[fran]

Yes they studied it further and she was kept in the hospital on a breathing monitor for a couple days and was sent home with the breathing monitor and a feeding tube to regulate her formula intake. She was put on some acid reflux meds and my cousin was told to keep her upright after she ate, or at the very least put her in her carseat so she wasn't laying flat. Her brother's organs were sent out to be tested and my cousin said on his death certificate they listed SIDS.

Thank you for your reply, Paradise.

I guess no one wants to think this could be SIDS??????? Although rare for both twins to die, it does happen. The unfortunate thing is, when it does happen, the parents are put through the ringer as LE has to rule them out.

What little information we have so far, I don't see any foul play.

Prayers to the family.

JMHO
fran

 

[CyberLaw]

I have yet to come across a case where two twins died from SIDS at the exact same time.

I have read that when one twin dies from SIDS, the other twin may be at an increased risk......but not both children dying from SIDS at the same time.

Cornmeal is best to be stored in a sealed plastic container and/or fridge because it is prone to insect contamination.

Soy milk - could be anything from processing at a plant, to storage, to handling.

I feel that is may not be the food that was served to them that morning, but it could have been anthing they had a few days before, or even an infection.

Awaiting results...........

 

[jubie]

Is it just me?


What has me a little doubtful of their story is the twins dying at the 'same time'... other than poisining or smothering what else could have killed two sleeping babies safe in their beds at the same time!


So sad.

 

[SewingDeb]

I have yet to come across a case where two twins died from SIDS at the exact same time.

I have read that when one twin dies from SIDS, the other twin may be at an increased risk......but not both children dying from SIDS at the same time.

Cornmeal is best to be stored in a sealed plastic container and/or fridge because it is prone to insect contamination.

Soy milk - could be anything from processing at a plant, to storage, to handling.

I feel that is may not be the food that was served to them that morning, but it could have been anthing they had a few days before, or even an infection.

Awaiting results...........

This is very strange, but I have heard of adult twins dying within minutes of each other, even though they were very far apart distance wise.

 

[Becba]

Guess there hasn't been a cause of deathfound yet.

I wonder if she could have made the corn meal soy mixture too thick and left them with the bottles in their mouths. It would be odd for 2 kids to choke but maybe not so odd if the mixture was clumpy and the children were left laying on their backs with a their bottles propped in their mouths.

 

[Mabel]

Guess there hasn't been a cause of deathfound yet.

I wonder if she could have made the corn meal soy mixture too thick and left them with the bottles in their mouths. It would be odd for 2 kids to choke but maybe not so odd if the mixture was clumpy and the children were left laying on their backs with a their bottles propped in their mouths.

Wouldn't evidence of choking be found during the autopsies?

 

[fran]

I linked this study yesterday on a previous post. Sorry for the repetition.
This article doesn't say it's impossible for both infants to die on the same day, just rare. Until and IF the ME can find another cause of death, SIDS is a possibility.

JMHO
fran


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10401808&dopt=Abstract

We successfully matched the co-twins of 172029 twin pregnancies. Of these, 767 were twin pregnancies in which one or both twins died of SIDS. Among the 767 twin pregnancies in which one or both twins experienced SIDS, there were only 7 in which both twins died of SIDS (rate ratio, 4.0 per 100000 twin pregnancies). In only 1 of these 7 did both twins die on the same day (rate ratio, 0.58 per 100000 twin pregnancies). The relative risk for a second twin dying of SIDS was 8.17 (90% confidence interval, 1.18-56.67). CONCLUSIONS: Independent of birth weight, twins do not appear to be at greater risk for SIDS compared with singleton births. In addition, the occurrence of both twins dying of SIDS is uncommon, and the occurrence of both twins dying on the same day is extremely uncommon.

 

[luthersmama]

..........there is absolutely no reason to think that.

There have been other cases in the news in the past about babies being fed cocaine or heroin, either accidently or on purpose. I'm just surprised that they haven't found a cause of death yet.

 

[close_enough]

just checking in...wonder why we haven't heard the cause of death??

 

[angelmom]

I linked this study yesterday on a previous post. Sorry for the repetition.
This article doesn't say it's impossible for both infants to die on the same day, just rare. Until and IF the ME can find another cause of death, SIDS is a possibility.

JMHO
fran


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10401808&dopt=Abstract

We successfully matched the co-twins of 172029 twin pregnancies. Of these, 767 were twin pregnancies in which one or both twins died of SIDS. Among the 767 twin pregnancies in which one or both twins experienced SIDS, there were only 7 in which both twins died of SIDS (rate ratio, 4.0 per 100000 twin pregnancies). In only 1 of these 7 did both twins die on the same day (rate ratio, 0.58 per 100000 twin pregnancies). The relative risk for a second twin dying of SIDS was 8.17 (90% confidence interval, 1.18-56.67). CONCLUSIONS: Independent of birth weight, twins do not appear to be at greater risk for SIDS compared with singleton births. In addition, the occurrence of both twins dying of SIDS is uncommon, and the occurrence of both twins dying on the same day is extremely uncommon.

You know, they are saying this is so uncommon, but if you do the math it really isn't. 7 out of 767 (when both twins died of SIDS) is almost 1% or 1 in 100. That's about the same as your odds of getting pregnant while using the pill correctly, and I can think of a few people who have had that happen. :silenced:

And then, the statistic for both twins dying of SIDS on the same day is 1 in 767, which is a little over 0.13%. While I would agree that makes it uncommon, it is also about as likely as a child with good prenatal care being born with Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome. Again, I know of more than one person whose child has had this birth defect.

I guess my point is that, as strange as it sounds, these aren't astronomical odds. And as my friend whose baby died of HLHS so aptly put it, you don't care how rare it is when it happens to you.

If feel terrible for this family. I hope they are getting plenty of support during this horribly uncertain time. I cannot imagine the complicated grief if it comes out that something they gave the babies unintentionally caused their deaths. I don't know how you go on after something like that.

 

[CyberLaw]

I just re-read the link to ncbi.

The way I read it: We successfully matched the co-twins of 172029 twin pregnancies.

Translate: The "base" for the study was 172,029 twin pairs.......

Of these, 767 were twin pregnancies in which one or both twins died of SIDS.

Translate: Of 172,029, 767 twin pregnancies were studied that one or both of the twins died of SIDS.

There were only 7 in which both twins died of SIDS.

Translate: Out of 172,029 there were 767 pregnancies that had SIDS as a factor in cause of death.

From that figure and the resulting figure of 7 that would be out of 172,029.

Only 1 out of these 7 did both twins die on the same day.

So out of 172,029, there was only one case of a twin dying of SIDS on the same day.

I did not read anywhere, that twins died of SIDS at the same time, only the same day.

I just don't think that this has to do with SIDS, but again that is a catch all phrase that some people use when they can't pinpoint the exact cause of death in a young baby. As we know there has been cases where a child has been harmed, but the ruling of SIDS has been entered, but the person either confesses or another child dies under "mysterious" circumstances.

The reason that the cause is taking so long is lab tests to determine what substances would be in their systems..........

I don't know, the Cornmeal......?

 

[fran]

I hate quoting myself but it's easier in this case. Here's another article about 'twins and SIDS.' Perhaps the babies don't usually die at the same time, but that also happened here. They didn't die at exactly the same time. Just within minutes or an hour of each other.

I agree that SIDS is used when they can't find a definit 'reason.'

JMHO
fran

http://sids-network.org/fp/wood_marla10.htm
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000

Twins and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Each year, an estimated 7,000 babies die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), in the United States alone. More children die of SIDS than Aids, Cancer, Heart disease, Child Abuse, Cystic Fibrosis and Muscular Dystrophy combined (Holcher 1). It is by far the deadliest and the most mysterious syndrome known to effect children. Very little is known about SIDS, however, statistics show that 95 percent of SIDS deaths happen between 2 and 4 months of age.

......................snip...............
The rate for SIDS deaths in singleton babies is 1 baby per thousand births. The rate for SIDS deaths in twins has been as high as 9 babies per thousand births, but is usually documented as 4 deaths per thousand babies. (Beal 1039).

.............snip.................
He also examined the time span of the deaths, and found that in 9 of the 17 cases, the co-twins died on the same day, while the remaining 6 died within one month of their twin (Spiers 5). His data suggests that the time period when family should be most concerned about the surviving twin is one month.

............snip.............
The simultaneous death of both twins raises suspicion toward the parents or care givers. Dr. John E. Smialek, is considered to be a well-known expert in the studies of Simultaneous SIDS in twins. In his studies, he has encountered several cases of simultaneous SIDS as a respected Medical Examiner in the Baltimore, Maryland area. He has personally worked on 9 of these cases. In Wayne County, Mi., two cases of simultaneous SIDS occurred within 5 years of each other. During the first case the death of the twins resulted in an atmosphere of intense suspicion of the parents that was verbalized by members of the medical community and other person who were unaware of this medical phenomenon. The twins' deaths were labeled as SIDS after intense investigations involving both local police agencies and the medical examiner. After numerous tests came back negative, the cause of death was listed as SIDS (Smialek 817). When simultaneous twin deaths