GUILTY NY - Twins Ises & Moorfiyah Mathurin, 3 mos, smothered, 20 Oct 2005

[Bobbisangel]

She mixed her own formula from soy milk and something else. It was not a prepared mix she purchased.

When I had my kids there was no such thing as a ready mixed formula. We used canned milk...Karo...and water. Made up a batch of formula at a time.
They didn't come up with premixed ready to use formula until my kids had kids.
My first child was born in 1963 so you know how long ago that was! If a child was alergic to canned milk there was a soy milk that you could use instead.

 

[Bobbisangel]

My prediction: somebody's heroin stash got mixed in with the formula.

Is there a reason that you say that? Did you read somewhere that this couple were druggies? I didn't see anything that would even make me think that they aren't a young couple with three children who are just living their lives like most people are. Why the remark about heroin...any particular reason?

 

[luvbeaches]

I used to run a support group for families with vaccine injured children. Whenever I read a story such as this one, I always wonder if the children were recently vaccinated.

That was my first thought...

 

[Bobbisangel]

What a tragedy. This family must be devastated.

FWIW, I have no opinion on this case. I think the ME needs to release all of his findings first. Here are a few links to information about SIDS and twins. The first link comes to the conclusion that both children dying of SIDS is rare, however the second link is the sids-network and goes into detail of what can happen when both twins die. I really chopped up the article because of copy right laws, so you might want to take a look.

JMHO
fran


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10401808&dopt=Abstract

Sudden infant death syndrome among twins.



http://sids-network.org/fp/wood_marla10.htm
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000

Twins and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Each year, an estimated 7,000 babies die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), in the United States alone. More children die of SIDS than Aids, Cancer, Heart disease, Child Abuse, Cystic Fibrosis and Muscular Dystrophy combined (Holcher 1). It is by far the deadliest and the most mysterious syndrome known to effect children. Very little is known about SIDS, however, statistics show that 95 percent of SIDS deaths happen between 2 and 4 months of age.

......................snip...............
The rate for SIDS deaths in singleton babies is 1 baby per thousand births. The rate for SIDS deaths in twins has been as high as 9 babies per thousand births, but is usually documented as 4 deaths per thousand babies. (Beal 1039).

.............snip.................
He also examined the time span of the deaths, and found that in 9 of the 17 cases, the co-twins died on the same day, while the remaining 6 died within one month of their twin (Spiers 5). His data suggests that the time period when family should be most concerned about the surviving twin is one month.

............snip.............
The simultaneous death of both twins raises suspicion toward the parents or care givers. Dr. John E. Smialek, is considered to be a well-known expert in the studies of Simultaneous SIDS in twins. In his studies, he has encountered several cases of simultaneous SIDS as a respected Medical Examiner in the Baltimore, Maryland area. He has personally worked on 9 of these cases. In Wayne County, Mi., two cases of simultaneous SIDS occurred within 5 years of each other. During the first case the death of the twins resulted in an atmosphere of intense suspicion of the parents that was verbalized by members of the medical community and other person who were unaware of this medical phenomenon. The twins' deaths were labeled as SIDS after intense investigations involving both local police agencies and the medical examiner. After numerous tests came back negative, the cause of death was listed as SIDS (Smialek 817). When simultaneous twin deaths

This is really interesting. I hope that the ME doesn't rule out SIDS because you just never know. If the babies have had any shots lately like one person on here talked about that is something else to look at. Gosh, both of the little things. The twin articles were really interesting. I wonder why it affects both twins...SIDS?

 

[Bobbisangel]

Oh sorry, I wasn't clear i guess. I said it in the ealrier post..accidental rollover, meaning the mom rolled over on the babies.
It was a very sad show. BTW, this is a true story.

That is interesting. So she put each of the babies in bed with her from the time they were born? My oldest daughter always put her babies in bed with her but I guess she never rolled on them. I think she always kept them on her chest. I just watched a program not long ago and they talked about the chance of a new mother rolling over on her baby and said that it is very rare thing to happen. Mothers are so intuned to every move a baby makes and every noise is why they didn't think it happened but very rarely.

 

[SewingDeb]

just checking in...wonder why we haven't heard the cause of death??

It may be weeks before toxicology tests come back. My great nephew died suddenly at 15 months old in daycare and it was 8 weeks before we learned that he died unattended during an asthma attack.

 

[SewingDeb]

This is really interesting. I hope that the ME doesn't rule out SIDS because you just never know. If the babies have had any shots lately like one person on here talked about that is something else to look at. Gosh, both of the little things. The twin articles were really interesting. I wonder why it affects both twins...SIDS?

Identical twins have the same genetic makeup, so whatever one is susceptible to, the other one is also susceptible to.

 

[CyberLaw]

I read a New York Times article today.

Did you know(which I did not)that a person cannot feed young babies regular whole soy milk because it has too much sodium in it and it is equivilent to an overdose of sodium.

You have you use infant soy milk. If a regular soy milk is used, over the course of days, the sodium levels build up an can cause seizures that lead to a lack of breathing in a matter of minutes.

I had no idea.

It could be as simple as the mother buying regular soy milk because the store was out of infant soy milk.

Or the mother just started using soy milk after she previously breatfed and did not know the difference between regular soy milk and infant soy milk.

Apparently she has fed them a cornmeal mixture for the past month, which is a common cultural tradition in the West Indies Community.

www.newyorktimes.com

More worrisome is whether in this case either the milk or the cornmeal was somehow contaminated by a food bacterium like botulism, said Dr. Orlando Perales, director of the pediatric emergency room at Lincoln Medical and Mental Health Center in the Bronx, which serves a large immigrant population.

"We know that twins have a lot of high risk of developing any type of problems," he said. "But not both of them at the same time. This had to be something deadly that they ingested together."
Possible accidental dangers are the use of leftover formula in which bacteria has developed, sweetening with honey, or the repeated use of regular whole soymilk in place of infant formula.

 

[luthersmama]

Is there a reason that you say that? Did you read somewhere that this couple were druggies? I didn't see anything that would even make me think that they aren't a young couple with three children who are just living their lives like most people are. Why the remark about heroin...any particular reason?

Two reasons:

1. It sounds like they died in their sleep. No other signs of poisoning or trauma or pre-existing condition. That could be a narcotics overdose; and

2. There have been other such cases in the news before. I think there may have been a CSI or Law& Order episode as well.

Might not be the parents' heroin. Maybe somebody else put something in the soy powder or cornmeal for some stupid or criminal reason.

No need to assume that I am blaming the parents.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

It does sound like depressed respiratory system type of deaths.

 

[SewingDeb]

Cyberlaw,
You may be onto the cause. I wonder how long it would take for the sodium buildup to become toxic in their bodies?

 

[CyberLaw]

Apparently it takes only a matter of days for the toxic build up of sodium.

I guess it would depend on the weight of the babies, but I would hazzard a guess and say 3 days. The last feeding may have been the one that caused the deaths.

Plausible.........

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I haven't heard of allergic reaction to soy milk although it's possible I guess. Both of mine were allergic to regular baby formula and put on soy formula by their pediatrician. I would think cornmeal would not be a good thing for such a small babies digestive system. But apparently it's what they always fed their children.

My brother is deathly allergic to soy, so yes, an allergic reaction is a distinct possibility.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Oh sorry, I wasn't clear i guess. I said it in the ealrier post..accidental rollover, meaning the mom rolled over on the babies.
It was a very sad show. BTW, this is a true story.

That used to happen a lot more often in the old days, when the whole family shared a bed. My great-grandfmother accidentally smothered her 3rd baby daughter when she was 6 weeks old by rolling over on top of her.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

One of my sons was allergic to soy. He was also allergic to cows milk and corn, and every single formula is based on one of those three ingredients. He had to drink goat's milk.

I can't imagine dying from a soy allergy, however. All it did to Matt was make him break out with eczema.

I hate to say it, but luthersmom might be on the right track. Might not be heroin, but it does sound like something was accidentally put into the cornmeal formula.

If a food allergy is bad enough, your throat can swell shut and/or put you into seizures. My brother's allergy to soy was gradual, but by the time he was 13 it was life-threatening.

 

[Kathleen]

I read a New York Times article today.

Did you know(which I did not)that a person cannot feed young babies regular whole soy milk because it has too much sodium in it and it is equivilent to an overdose of sodium.

You have you use infant soy milk. If a regular soy milk is used, over the course of days, the sodium levels build up an can cause seizures that lead to a lack of breathing in a matter of minutes.

I had no idea.

It could be as simple as the mother buying regular soy milk because the store was out of infant soy milk.

The formula cans that must have water added to them are labeled as such, while the "ready to feed" cans do not need added water. If one does not add the water as directed to the cans that need it, it causes sodium excess also..Maybe someone bought a different type than usual.

 

[Kathleen]

We had a set of male twins brought into our Emergency Room in the middle of the night one winter..both were dead. They were about 6 weeks old, preemies, but growing well. It was finally determined that Carbon Monoxide killed them..only them tho because of their size and possible location in the room, nearer the heat system. So sad..Kathleen

 

[aussiegran]

I read a New York Times article today.

Did you know(which I did not)that a person cannot feed young babies regular whole soy milk because it has too much sodium in it and it is equivilent to an overdose of sodium.

You have you use infant soy milk. If a regular soy milk is used, over the course of days, the sodium levels build up an can cause seizures that lead to a lack of breathing in a matter of minutes.

I had no idea.

It could be as simple as the mother buying regular soy milk because the store was out of infant soy milk.

Or the mother just started using soy milk after she previously breatfed and did not know the difference between regular soy milk and infant soy milk.

Apparently she has fed them a cornmeal mixture for the past month, which is a common cultural tradition in the West Indies Community.

www.newyorktimes.com

More worrisome is whether in this case either the milk or the cornmeal was somehow contaminated by a food bacterium like botulism, said Dr. Orlando Perales, director of the pediatric emergency room at Lincoln Medical and Mental Health Center in the Bronx, which serves a large immigrant population.

"We know that twins have a lot of high risk of developing any type of problems," he said. "But not both of them at the same time. This had to be something deadly that they ingested together."
Possible accidental dangers are the use of leftover formula in which bacteria has developed, sweetening with honey, or the repeated use of regular whole soymilk in place of infant formula.

I had one daughter that I had to put on soy milk and both of her children have had to have it too,this is so scary about the sodium in it .Neither of us new it could be deadly .she told me that she used regular soy milk at times for them when she couldnt get formula.I am going to check about this more because it should be advertised if this is the case .:banghead:

 

[gatetrekker44]

but wouldn't cornmeal be too thick to pass thru a standard bottle nipple hole? It just seems that if they were ingesting this mixture that it would need to be fed by spoon-or am I missing someting here?

Also, CyberLaw's reference to the sodium levels is extremely interesting. Since twins are many times born early, they tend to have more things go wrong with their little bodies-and if the sodium buildup occurred, it could very well have killed them in a very short time due to acute renal failure as well as causing fatal heart arrythmias.

As to "drugs" possibly being in the cornmeal-stranger things have happened in this country-after all, we still to this day don't know who the "Tylenol killer" was or what the motivation was. It is possible a smuggler lost track of some cocaine or heroin and it ended up on a store shelf.

I just wish they could put a rush on the tox screen-suppose there is more tainted cornmeal out there if indeed that is the cause? That's a very scary thought!


Bring Jennifer, Adrianna, and Maura home!

 

[Marie]

Those poor babies. Such a tragic sadness for the family.