OK OK - Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, Anadarko, 23 Aug 2009

[Oklahoma Cowgirl]

Dear Chicogirl36, I cannot tell you what goes on here. I have my theories. As to the man with rape reduced to a misdemeanor, the only possible excuse for this I can come up with is severe mental disability on part of the defendant. I'm trying to get an answer. We'll all find out at the Second Coming when everything hidden will be revealed, to the shame or merit of each one. Meantime, I'm praying for Aja Johnson to be found, to escape, in case Hobbs sold her or vanished into a barn for cover stocked with survival supplies. He, the girl, the car appear to have vanished, the OSBI says. There are enough old mines, etc. here they could be hiding in.

 

[KariKae]

I hate to be the one to bring this up but oh well I will - I wonder if her race has anything to do with it? A small town in Oklahoma - I could see some people having an issue with an African-American pastor and a female at that.

Anadarko is a smaller town with a high native american population. It could have been race related, but I think it is less likely in Anadarko than other smaller towns in OK.

 

[KariKae]

I've never been to Oklahoma, and really don't know much about the state, but OSBI seems completely incompetent. Carol Daniels, Skyla and Taylor, the family that disappeared and left their truck behind - and these are just three that I've heard of. Also,it's especially hard to believe the Weleetka and Anadarko murders, in particular, have not been solved. Both were committed in tiny towns, and it seems like a whole lot of evidence was left behind in both. If either murder had happened here and wasn't solved in the first couple of months, NYPD would be under fire and inquiries would be being made. Who knows how many more murders are going unsolved in that state? If someone wants to commit a murder, clearly Oklahoma is the state to do it in, because chances are you will not get caught. I'm curious where the problem lies exactly. The director of OSBI? The investigators? It can't be a financial problem, can it? Also, I think they need to find a new spokeswoman/man because Jessica Brown, in the press conferences I've seen, comes across as uncaring, insensitive, stubborn, frigid, and defensive.

I also heard that Scotland Yard offered to help OSBI with evidence in the Weleetka murders and they turned them down. What?! Why??? Pride? If it were my sister or friend who had been murdered, I'd be out in front of OSBI headquarters protesting. Their lack of action, refusal to release information, and complete inability to solve anything is troublesome.

Oklahoma is a very rural state. The police departments in these small towns are, I assume, like small towns everywhere. When a murder occurs, the town has a few police officer, and no murder investigators. It's not like, say Oklahoma City, where there are detectives to work the case.

As far as OSBI...Well they have a brand new shiny building about a mile from my house. They have money. Maybe they're not spending it in the right place.

 

[Missizzy]

I, too, have been following the search for Pastor Daniels murderer. I agree that not nearly enough progress is being made. I think that Kari makes a good point in that the little towns are spread out and there's very little cohesiveness. That's ridiculous to not take a fingerprint, however!!

That said, look one state to the south. There we've got a serial rapist terrorizing elder women. Not only are LE involved but so are the Texas Rangers, FBI, and US Marshalls. None of us on the thread following that case have been impressed AT ALL with the information sharing or the public awareness of the case. The "dropping of the ball" allows these perps more time to strike again, IMO.

ITA that in an urban area, this lack of progress would be cause for an internal review.

 

[wfgodot]

Oklahoma can't solve the crime....so it seeks tighter control of the press.

Bills on slaying details, municipal fees go to Oklahoma House
Published: February 23, 2010
...
House Bill 3155 was written because of concerns that too much information was released about last year’s slaying of an Anadarko pastor and the 2008 killings of two Weleetka-area girls, said the measure’s author, Rep. Leslie Osborn. Both cases remain unsolved.

The House Judiciary Committee passed the measure 10-1. It now goes to the full House.

"We are only talking about a few discretionary items that might be needed for pending criminal investigations,” said Osborn, R-Tuttle.

In the case of the Rev. Carol Daniels, who was killed and mutilated in August, most of the information would have been released, Osborn said.

But her measure would have allowed prosecutors or law officers to request that such details as singed scalp hair and the body being staged be withheld, Osborn said.

A similar measure failed to advance last year.

Mark Thomas, executive director of the Oklahoma Press Association, said the bill has several flaws.

The measure’s restrictions started out dealing only with homicides, but have expanded to include unknown and pending causes of death, he said.

The bill also doesn’t place a time limit on withholding the information, he said.

"It can be confidential forever,” Thomas said.

"There has to be some time limit when the public has a right to know about violent murders that were committed in their midst.”
...

RIDICULOUS.

http://newsok.com/bills-on-slaying-details-municipal-fees-go-to-house/article/3441593

 

[wfgodot]

NewsOn6's OK Impact team scorches OSBI for its failure in this and many other cases:
OSBI's Track Record Investigated After Criticism From Lawmaker
By Jennifer Loren, The Oklahoma Impact Team

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation claims it brings exceptional investigative service to the state of Oklahoma. But the agency's track record is being questioned by a state legislator. His questions put the agency on the defensive.

The list of Oklahoma's unsolved homicides is lengthy. Pastor Carol Daniels was murdered in an Anadarko church. Taylor Paschal Placker and Skyla Whitaker were gunned down in Weleetka. The Denneys were shot to death in their Locust Grove home. Poteau bar owner Joe Neff was found dead near Pocola. Sam Sanders was killed in Fairland, his wife badly beaten. Three young girl scouts were murdered at camp in 1977 and the list goes on. All of those cases were investigated by the OSBI. All of them are unsolved
---

much, much more about OSBI and its claims and failures, at
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12379331

 

[Oklahoma Cowgirl]

[1] Just read of a new book called CLERGY KILLERS
Guidance for Pastors and Congregations Under Attack
Logos Productions Inc. by Lloyd Redige http://home.comcast.net/~glrediger/books/clergy_killers.html
[2] Does anyone know for sure if OSBI has ruled out any connection to the man who was undergoing sex change and who murdered Texas Unitarian Pastor Karen Lee Johnson who was advising him, then killed himself? Ex-Marine, violent.

 

[wfgodot]

Completed autopsy report released in Anadarko pastor's death
(and guess what? the State of Oklahoma botched the job)

Description of wounds changed in completed autopsy report on Anadarko pastor, who was slain and nearly decapitated
---
"Choi made one noticeable change from Trant’s preliminary autopsy report: The cause of death.

"Choi changed 'multiple sharp force injuries' to 'multiple incised wounds.' Daniels suffered cuts all over her body, including an apparent attempt by her killer to leave her decapitated. The autopsy showed 'gaping incised wounds across the larynx, extending lateral and toward the back of the neck.'"
---
Unbelievable - well, if it were in some other state, it might be hard to fathom. Not here. And the rest of the story:

http://newsok.com/completed-autopsy-report-released-in-anadarko-pastors-death/article/3461176

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

That's pretty sad....but when it's the state of Oklahoma, one tends to just shrug it off and say, "oh well.....that's pretty much what I expected......"

 

[wfgodot]

That's pretty sad....but when it's the state of Oklahoma, one tends to just shrug it off and say, "oh well.....that's pretty much what I expected......"

Yep, exactly. And the problem is, I've lived here for a long enough time that I'm starting to feel smug because I can see it all coming. And I take that a step farther and kick myself for having thought, just maybe, when it happened, that this crime might be a solvable one, and would get solved. Because I should have known it wasn't. They weren't going to put themselves out any because of this crime, for reasons that are all too clear. To live in Oklahoma is to flirt every day with the notion of becoming a cynic.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Does LE seem to crack local everyday crimes in that state? Please don't take this wrong - I am not trying to smear Oklahoma LE. I am just wondering if you do hear of it in the local newspapers, etc.

I never had a clue how sad the situation was until I joined here about one year ago. I can think of numerous crimes that I have followed since that time from Ok - Rev. Carol Daniels, the Waleetka girls, Jody Riley (sp?), Joe Neff, the Jamison family disappearance, and on and on. And that's just off the top of my head, as I know there are many more but the names escape me right now.

I guess what I'm really wondering is, does OK LE maintain the semblance of a presence throughout the state? It's really sad to read through these threads because these are/were living, breathing human beings who deserve to have someone in LE work for them. I just don't see it happening. From the outside looking in, it looks like LE puts on a good front at first, wrings their hands after a week or two and then stands behind the "ongoing investigation" BS until people quit inquiring.

I also think that the GBI needs a total shake-up from top to bottom. The director Langley (I believe) has been there way too long and don't even get me started on that Jessica Brown (I believe that is her name) spokesperson. Her reply to Rev. Daniels' mother regarding "if she wants to talk to us she has our number" (paraphrasing) was absolutely unforgiveable.

As I stated in the Joe Neff thread today (today is the one-year anniversary of his unsolved murder), whatever money the perpetrator(s) stole from Joe is long since gone. They surely have moved on to other victims. I'm just afraid that we are reading about those victims on these threads here. Sadly, it seems like we're the only ones working on these cases because it certainly doesn't seem like LE has made any progress.

(In fact Joe's daughter has NEVER even been interviewed by LE to this day, if you can believe that.) No wonder progress hasn't been made. Lord only knows what they ARE doing.

 

[wfgodot]

Hoorah! A bit of good news here at last: Legislature has killed an attempt by OK LE to hide its mistakes behind a cloak of secrecy - under the guise of "protecting the investigation"
State bill to keep autopsy details secret derailed

OKLAHOMA CITY — A bill that would allow the state medical examiner’s office to keep secret the details of how a homicide victim was killed will not be revived this session, the House author said Monday.

After the bill prompted several questions on the House floor, Rep. Leslie Osborn withdrew the bill from consideration and said it won’t be heard again this session.
---
Osborn said the bill was requested by Caddo County District Attorney Bret Burns after the high-profile slaying last year of the Rev. Carol Daniels inside an Anadarko church. An autopsy report showed that the 61-year-old pastor suffered numerous gashes to her neck and throat, as well as stab wounds to her chest, back, stomach and hands. The case remains unsolved.

“I don’t think the press should be plastering autopsy reports on the front page of the paper during a pending investigation,” Burns said. “Those details should not be released to the public when you’re trying to catch the killer.”

But the bill drew opposition from the Oklahoma Press Association, which argued that the public has a right to know details about how a person died and that the medical examiner’s office should remain independent from prosecutors and law enforcement.
---
http://enidnews.com/state/x334296883/State-bill-to-keep-autopsy-details-secret-derailed

 

[wfgodot]

Anadarko memorial for murdered pastor

ANADARKO - Demolition crews tore down the church where a pastor was murdered last year. The body of Carol Daniels, 61, was discovered inside Christ Holy Sanctified Church last August. Church leaders decided to demolish the old church to make way for a memorial in honor of Pastor Daniels.

"If you want your name to be remembered for the things that you do, you have to leave it in the hearts of people and she left us a lot of good memories," said Pastor Ezra Randle, Christ Holy Sanctified Church of America.

Pastor Randle says the church was just recently turned back over to them by investigators. Since the murder, the church remained closed. Pastor Randle believes what happened there caused a lot of pain and that the best thing to do was to turn the site into a memorial.

"If you just forget about it and walk away kicking the dirt, saying oh well she was a good woman, I don't think that would be fair," said Pastor Randle.
---

more, with video, at
http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-anadarko-memorial-story,0,3340577.story

 

[Missizzy]

In doing some research on another case, I came upon a cold murder case I'd never heard of. I thought I'd post it here as there are several similarities to Pastor Daniels's horrible murder. It involves the murder and "staging of the body" of Arlis Perry, the young wife of a Stanford University student in 1974 in the college chapel. Please be aware that there are many triggers here:

http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic/44-arlis-death-haunts-detective/

I did an archive search and found Arlis's name in only a single WS post about a possible connection with the Manson murders and the Son of Sam. A couple of websites also list the recent murder of Annie Le at Yale as possibly being connected. Very very frightening.

While I understand, on one level, the reasoning behind demolishing the church where Pastor Daniels was killed, I'm also very concerned that the entire story will never be told and some evidence destroyed forever.

 

[tapu]

Yeah, I've looked into the Arlis Perry case a few times due to references to it in various accounts of the Manson murders and possible connections country-wide. That's a really strange case, for sure.

One of the incidental pieces of information I came across is that her husband, Bruce Perry, who was also a Stanford Univ student at the time is a high-level psychologist (not sure of exact title, though), and that he counseled the children that survived from David Koresh's Waco group.

I probably have one or more details wrong there--it's been a while since I looked into all this. The gist of the story is right, though.

 

[Snoopster]

Anniversary of Anadarko pastor's slaying comes with few leads

In the past year, there have been fewer than 100 possible leads in the case, said Stan Florence, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation inspector.

"We've had some good leads, but they have not come in like you'd expect in a high-profile case,” Florence said.

[Warning: fairly graphic details in this article]
http://newsok.com/pastors-slaying-still-unsolved-one-year-later/article/3487848

One year later and they are no closer to solving the case.

 

[Missizzy]

Tapu--You got the story right. I wonder if the death of his young wife was the impetus behind Dr. Perry studying child psychiatry. I've heard Dr. Perry speak twice on Reactive Attachment Disorder (a disorder affecting some children who have experienced early trauma and an ongoing challenge in adoption). I had no idea as to his brush with horror.

He also worked closely as a consultant for the victims of Hurricane Katrina and the YFZ Ranch and sits on the Board of the Cultic Studies Review.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_D._Perry

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultic_Studies_Review[/ame]

 

[Knot4u2no]

In doing some research on another case, I came upon a cold murder case I'd never heard of. I thought I'd post it here as there are several similarities to Pastor Daniels's horrible murder. It involves the murder and "staging of the body" of Arlis Perry, the young wife of a Stanford University student in 1974 in the college chapel. Please be aware that there are many triggers here:

http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic/44-arlis-death-haunts-detective/

I did an archive search and found Arlis's name in only a single WS post about a possible connection with the Manson murders and the Son of Sam. A couple of websites also list the recent murder of Annie Le at Yale as possibly being connected. Very very frightening.

While I understand, on one level, the reasoning behind demolishing the church where Pastor Daniels was killed, I'm also very concerned that the entire story will never be told and some evidence destroyed forever.

Lots of similarities with the murder of Karen Lee Johnson by Renata Antoinette Monet case too ...

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/jan/25/apd-confirms-names-two-found-dead/

Russell

 

[Missizzy]

Another case of possible interest is the murder of Sister Margaret Ann Pahl in Toledo, Ohio in 1980. The very priest who said mass at her funeral, Father Gerald Robinson, was arrested years later, in 2003 and charged with her murder. Another woman had come forward to accuse him and several other priests of abuse when she was a child, which caused LE to take a closer look at him. The staging of the body, once again, is very odd.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/killer_clergy2/index.html (note: several pages)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Robinson_(priest)

 

[tapu]

Oh, yeah, I remember reading about that one, too. I guess that there's probably not a tangible connection between all these, but there's definitely a thematic one. I wonder what kind of mind it takes to fixate on killing in a church and ritualistically placing the body. It all seems so... specific, and seemingly unrelated to the actual victim perhaps. Whoa.