PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #3

[~n/t~]

From the beginning, I doubted CP's story that the "banging and stomping" was Kortne "banging and stomping around the house" to piss off the neighbors. I believe the "banging and stomping" was instead some sort of struggle between CP and Kortne.

But this morning, I realized something. Originally, we were lied to and told that the first complaint was due to a barking dog. We now know that this was a lie told in order to prevent the public from finding out that Kortne was acting aggressively towards her neighbors. (The real reason the police were first called).

In other words, there was no original "noise" complaint. (It was actually a complaint about Kortne confronting them, becoming aggressive) SO that means that there was NO motive for Kortne to make noise in her apartment to anger them. . . they weren't upset about noise in the apartment in the first place!

What was the real reason? I'm confused. I thought it was because of the partying at her house? Partying causes noise.:waitasec:

 

[cluciano63]

What was the real reason? I'm confused. I thought it was because of the partying at her house? Partying causes noise.:waitasec:

Kortne and friend encountered the neighbors when they returned from the clubs...and started an altercation of some kind. She was apparently seen trying to attack the other neighbor (TS) so the neighbors below her called police. Not a noise complaint, per se.

 

[~n/t~]

Well, Kortne was probably mad after LE left and she may well have stomped around to keep bothering the neighbors. I don't think that part has to be untrue. Also, not sure if her parents knew the full details of Kortne's behavior when they first spoke publicly.

While the sleepover guy seems to make the most sense as a suspect, I just do not see a motive. Sure, there is always a possible sexual motive, but on that night? With all of that going on? The BF was going to be gone for more than one night...he could have come back the next night to "comfort" her, if that is what he wanted.

A sexually charged male doesn't think that way, imo. If he was aroused and needed his fix, I don't think he would think well maybe tomorrow.....

He actually may have demanded it from her. Sort of I protected you from him and stood up for you and now you owe me. When drugs and alcohol are involved, who knows what could happen. KWIM?

JMO

 

[cluciano63]

A sexually charged male doesn't think that way, imo. If he was aroused and needed his fix, I don't think he would think well maybe tomorrow.....

He actually may have demanded it from her. Sort of I protected you from him and stood up for you and now you owe me. When drugs and alcohol are involved, who knows what could happen. KWIM?

JMO

So was he assaulting her when police came by the 2nd time? That was only a short time later from when they left the other time. As soon as police leaves, she is still in a rage, he decides to assault her? Knowing the whole house is awake? Makes no sense to me...

 

[~n/t~]

Kortne and friend encountered the neighbors when they returned from the clubs...and started an altercation of some kind. She was apparently seen trying to attack the other neighbor (TS) so the neighbors below her called police. Not a noise complaint, per se.

But the reason she confronted him was because she felt he was responsible for her bf getting arrested from a party at her house, right? Why would she think that if it wasn't true? I wonder how many times LE were called to her house before? Perhaps one of the reasons LE didn't knock on the doors was because it's happened before. IMO

 

[~n/t~]

So was he assaulting her when police came by the 2nd time? That was only a short time later from when they left the other time. As soon as police leaves, she is still in a rage, he decides to assault her? Knowing the whole house is awake? Makes no sense to me...

Have they taken her bedding, her mattress and any other items from her apartment? I'm not saying this "friend" is involved but I wouldn't discount him just because the cops showed up a second time. He wouldn't know the cops were called a second time. The neighbour did.

 

[AndreaBingham]

All of what I am about to write is an educated opinion on people we are allowed to sleuth, or can be verified through media sources/common sense.

Well, Kortne was probably mad after LE left and she may well have stomped around to keep bothering the neighbors. I don't think that part has to be untrue. Also, not sure if her parents knew the full details of Kortne's behavior when they first spoke publicly.

While the sleepover guy seems to make the most sense as a suspect, I just do not see a motive. Sure, there is always a possible sexual motive, but on that night? With all of that going on? The BF was going to be gone for more than one night...he could have come back the next night to "comfort" her, if that is what he wanted.

1. If the neighbors were not upset about noise in the first place, what would lead Kortne to believe that making noise would bother them?

2. Her parents were aware of the whereabouts of Kortne's boyfriend on that night but would only say he was "away". Telling the Kortne-confronting-her-neighbors part of the story involved telling the public that her boyfriend was in jail. . .something they clearly did not want to do, for whatever reason. That is why the barking dog story was created.

3. CP's possible motive: He became violent about Kortne resisting sex and accidentally killed her. CP is extremely strong and heavy. CP may, possibly, theoretically, could, maybe, probably, likely, have a long history of becoming violent with women while drunk.

What was the real reason? I'm confused. I thought it was because of the partying at her house? Partying causes noise.

Actually, this was a different complaint that happened, technically, on the previous day. It wasn't connected to the two complaints in the late night/early morning of her disappearance. Originally, we were told: Complaint number 1= dog barking, Complaint number 2= banging and stomping. We now know that Complaint number 1= Kortne attacking neighbors, Complaint number 2= banging and stomping.

So was he assaulting her when police came by the 2nd time? That was only a short time later from when they left the other time. As soon as police leaves, she is still in a rage, he decides to assault her? Knowing the whole house is awake? Makes no sense to me...

Actually, the timing and the other parts of his story are pretty consistent with someone "going to bed". . .adding credence to the attempted rape and accidental murder scenario. In other words, the police leave. .. they are drunk and tired. They are ready to go to sleep. CP tries something, she resists ("banging and stomping"), he accidentally kills her. When the police come, he has a dead body in the house with him. (Won't answer the door)

 

[~n/t~]

Were cadaver dogs brought to the house? If she was dead inside the apartment, they would have made a hit.

 

[AndreaBingham]

Were cadaver dogs brought to the house? If she was dead inside the apartment, they would have made a hit.

Yes, one was. We don't know if it made a hit or not. However, a person has to be dead for a certain amount of time before a dog can pick up the scent.

 

[epiphany]

And why wasn't TS out there to greet police? At that point, he has to be pretty angry, he has made phone calls, and this is the second police visit plus it is very late now. I'd think he would have been out there pushing for her arrest... Perhaps he didn't hear the knock or there was no knock by police.. Just thinking here...

TS appears to have been persistent. According to the latest report, Father says that TS called the police (the night before) which led to her BF's arrest:

Snipped

Scott Stouffer said his daughter was angry at her next door neighbor for calling police on her boyfriend who was drinking and violated his probation.

After officers arrested her boyfriend...

The next morning, TS called the police again (as well as left a VM with K's landlord) re the stomping complaint:

Snipped

Soon after, Kortne went back inside her apartment and stomped on the floor out of anger, causing the neighbor to call police again and left an angry message with their landlord.

One would think that TS, if he was not already outside waiting for police after placing the call, would have called the police again.

TS placed the last call in to LE. Why didn't he respond to the police? And if LE did not knock, check, etc., why did TS simply not call the police again?

Kortne was angry. It appears that TS was angry as well.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...etails-more-about/DCJJ3PDO7EuAucOnLrPWJA.cspx

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

Yes, one was. We don't know if it made a hit or not. However, a person has to be dead for a certain amount of time before a dog can pick up the scent.

A dog hit could be reason for "Criminal Homicide" being on the search warrant.

 

[cluciano63]

None of the neighbors said anything about the sleepover guy being angry or unruly...you would think they would have, if he too was acting up. The complaints seem to have been against Kortne. Not sure if that means anything, but anyway.

ETA: Also, if one wants to go with simplest answer, neither apartment answers when LE knocks=LE didn't knock.

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

TS appears to have been persistent. According to the latest report, Father says that TS called the police (the night before) which led to her BF's arrest:

Snipped

Scott Stouffer said his daughter was angry at her next door neighbor for calling police on her boyfriend who was drinking and violated his probation.

After officers arrested her boyfriend...

The next morning, TS called the police again (as well as left a VM with K's landlord) re the stomping complaint:

Snipped

Soon after, Kortne went back inside her apartment and stomped on the floor out of anger, causing the neighbor to call police again and left an angry message with their landlord.

One would think that TS, if he was not already outside waiting for police after placing the call, would have called the police again.

TS placed the last call in to LE. Why didn't he respond to the police? And if LE did not knock, check, etc., why did TS simply not call the police again?

Kortne was angry. It appears that TS was angry as well.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...etails-more-about/DCJJ3PDO7EuAucOnLrPWJA.cspx

TS not answering the door is really hard to get past.

 

[AndreaBingham]

A dog hit could be reason for "Criminal Homicide" being on the search warrant.

I was under the same impression. However, I questioned myself because if they did get a hit, one would think that they would bring a second dog to verify. Then again, who says they haven't? It's not like they would tell us if they did. In the end, I believe you are right here.


I am also about to jump on ship with those that think LE may never have knocked. I am led to believe this due to the interesting wording in newer reports which state that "LE never made contact" with any of the parties. . .as opposed to "No one answered when LE knocked."

 

[scorekeeper]

A new day; where is Kortne?

We all know now that not the whole story was given to us the past 4 weeks.

Let's say the dog did get a hit in the apartment. Leads to 5 days of questioning of CP and Jr. Leads to search warrants with the word "homicide". Leads to a small search in the immediate area. Nothing turns up (that we know of). These guys are tight and go on about their partying. Any other missing young ladies in the area or places they frequent? They have motive? They have someone they can throw under the bus, the neighbor?

Once again, were they at the partying earlier when boyfriend was taken to jail? Did they visit before and did the dogs know them?

The neighbor is a pawn; yeah, he's fed up with all the noise but.....he was probably exhausted and glad when the noise stopped....suddenly...why? The person(s) in the apartment with Kortne knows WHY the noise stopped.

 

[epiphany]

TS not answering the door is really hard to get past.

Agree. Easy to understand why both CP and KS might not respond to LE's knocks if they were both in the apartment at that time.

Difficult to understand why TS did not answer his door if he was at his residence at that time...

IF I were to believe that LE did not knock on both parties' doors, it's still difficult for me to believe that TS would not simply have placed another call in to police.

Was CP indeed asleep, but neither TS nor Kortne were in their respective apartments AFTER TS placed the call into LE?

 

[nervous_nellie]

i wonder if cp may have wanted her to knock it off because he didnt want to see the police again that night either? im pretty sure that the pennlive article that i dont have access to link ( i read around the annoying sign up box, lol) it stated that cp did intervene when k tried to attack ts but it also said that cp was less than friendly to the neighbors too leaving me to wonder if cp may have been tired of the rage k had been in all night too and possibly they got into it. cops may have told them that if they had to come back out that someone was gonna go to jail...

the cadaver dog hitting or not hitting as we all know from countless other cases is a complicated issue that cant really be used to determine much until they come right out and tell us what the deal is ie what kind of dogs ...

 

[JaimeSommers]

I keep coming back to the dogs in the apartment. If CP was hurting KS (if they were struggling, stomping, etc.), it is (almost) impossible for me to believe that those dogs would not have been freaking out. I have had dogs all of my 40+ years and, when my male friends even just clown around with me, the dogs are on them like white on rice. IMO

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I would say close to never (about psychics being helpful in these cases) except to say that since they so often say "near water" or "near train tracks" or "in a field", they are bound to guess right sometimes. But then I am kind of a cynic.

Especially in this area. You just named 3 things that are within walking distance of my place, lol

 

[JurysOut]

None of the neighbors said anything about the sleepover guy being angry or unruly...you would think they would have, if he too was acting up. The complaints seem to have been against Kortne. Not sure if that means anything, but anyway.

ETA: Also, if one wants to go with simplest answer, neither apartment answers when LE knocks=LE didn't knock.

Precisely.

According to available public records, CP is neither a simple good guy with a run of bad luck nor a hapless youth.

This man is 28 years old. His publicly available address (MSM, traffic accident report, pending charge) is a motel/storage facility near the track. There are several, I won't list specific details here.

He has a VERY serious pending charge, the latest of several (PA Docket Search, public record)

Court records confirm that this man has repeatedly engaged in dangerous, life threatening behavior, on at least one occasion leading to the VERY serious pending charge, likely regarding vehicular manslaughter. (PA Docket Search)

^All of this is publicly available information on the single person in Kortne's apartment at 7:00 AM four weeks ago today who has been 'interrogated' by LE and identified by name in all local media outlets.
*********************************

There's is similar publicly available information on TS, who provided incorrect information to either LE & the media, or just the media regarding the night in question, has been publicly identified by multiple media outlets, engaged in a physical altercation with Kortne Stouffer at least once immediately preceding her disappearance and has recently gone silent on recommendation of counsel AFTER initial public obfuscation about the night in question.

Both of these men are my personal persons of interest.

Both had means and opportunity. That's not conjecture.

Motive?
For one of them, it could have been a predatory sexual motive, but that CONJECTURE is based on information I cannot cite herein. So it's merely OPINION &/or CONJECTURE
************************************

For the second, it could have been a subsequent encounter with KS, righteous indignation..etc etc
A subsequent encounter - initiated by TS or KS, doesn't matter - could have occurred at any time after 3:45 AM, except for the 5 minute time window (4:31- 4:36 AM) that LE reports being on scene.

As has been outlined previously, the back yard area of 808/810 West Main street in darker than dark at night.

'Black as the pit from pole to pole'


No glaringly obvious evidence of a crime? Blunt force head trauma wouldn't necessarily leave much if any evidence.

I had a significant skull fracture at the age of six (explains a lot, doesn't it?), was unconscious for I don't know how long, hospitalized for almost two weeks and my head did not bleed.

Skull cracks, makes virtually no sound and can leave very little evidence, especially in the victim's dwelling.


***Except for public records, published media reports and my own personal experience all of the above is my opinion only***







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