PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[Lord_Chatterly]

I think the helper could have retained anonymity.

JJ, your earlier comment about the pilot is what I had felt too. That arrangement is a bit more difficult to make, and to make sure someone stays quiet. In general, RFG using any 'helpers' would have to be an extreme minimum, perhaps none at all ... why trust anyone at this point ? In a way, that is why I arrived at the 'Bus Theory'. I think he could have traveled just far enough away to link himself into another phase of his disappearance.

Seeking Jana had mentioned his appearance traveling on the Bus. If we recall, he had on clothes from the day before (jeans, blue fleece top, etc.), so that would give him more of an under the radar appearance. RFG's demeanor alone (being more introverted) would play right into a bus
exit. The Bus thing to me just seems more simple, and what the heck, it was just around the corner from SOS, more or less.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

A while back, I came up with the possibility, or profile, of a "helper." Here is what I came up with:

( deleted for brevity)

Now, that eliminates a few people, and LE was looking at some of them that it hasn't.

Now does that mean LE has NOT eliminated some people ? I find that VERY interesting. Like who do you have in mind, or have I misunderstood you ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Now does that mean LE has NOT eliminated some people ? I find that VERY interesting. Like who do you have in mind, or have I misunderstood you ?

In the summer of 2010, LE was interviewing staffers/friends.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, your earlier comment about the pilot is what I had felt too. That arrangement is a bit more difficult to make, and to make sure someone stays quiet. In general, RFG using any 'helpers' would have to be an extreme minimum, perhaps none at all ... why trust anyone at this point ? In a way, that is why I arrived at the 'Bus Theory'. I think he could have traveled just far enough away to link himself into another phase of his disappearance.

Seeking Jana had mentioned his appearance traveling on the Bus. If we recall, he had on clothes from the day before (jeans, blue fleece top, etc.), so that would give him more of an under the radar appearance. RFG's demeanor alone (being more introverted) would play right into a bus
exit. The Bus thing to me just seems more simple, and what the heck, it was just around the corner from SOS, more or less.

Well, LE said they checked.

The major problems I'd have with the bus are these:

1. There is a very good possibility of a witness, even if RFG had on dark glasses and a hat, like a ball cap. It is a bit like this Twilight Zone episode: Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. Unless middle aged men generally use the bus, which might be possible with LFP, he'd really stand out.

(Yes, this is me playing Devil's Advocate, and yes, it is not impossible.)

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

:ufo: <<<Ray Gricar ?

LoL on the 'Martian' reference. Today, there is a TV program on Gricar ... the link is below. 2 PM Eastern Time. Not sure if this is the same one many of us have seen already, or if newer. Anyway, here's the link :

http://investigationdiscovery.ca/showpage.aspx?sid=30583

 

[J. J. in Phila]

:ufo: <<<Ray Gricar ?

LoL on the 'Martian' reference. Today, there is a TV program on Gricar ... the link is below. 2 PM Eastern Time. Not sure if this is the same one many of us have seen already, or if newer. Anyway, here's the link :

http://investigationdiscovery.ca/showpage.aspx?sid=30583

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/06/20/2397443/paging-mulder-and-scully.html#storylink=misearch

Yes, you have convinced me that I've looked at everything. LOL

The last re-airing of Disappeared added some comments on the Sandusky situation.

 

[minazoe]

Has Patty taken a poly? I know they investigated her...but I find it all very fishy...how do we know that the dissapearence of RG didn't happen in the night?

Why does Karen call Patty Ray's paramour...???? I want to talk to this woman and find out what this is about.

I feel like Patty could have dumped the hard drive as a red herring and I also don't trust witnesses no matter who they are that say they saw Ray that day... especially if he frequented the area.

Patty stood to profit from Ray's death. Plain and simple.

 

[minazoe]

Also would like to know if Pattty has a close family member or friend who smokes.

 

[eriklatranyi]

It is possible, but it runs a high risk. The person sitting next to him, or across the aisle, may remember him. So might the driver or the people where he got off. Considering the publicity on the case, eventually someone might remember (and perhaps someone has).

The few times I have taken a local bus (never Susquehanna Trailways) it was nearly empty with perhaps 10 people on board.

Everybody was spread out and nobody talked to other people (unless they were traveling together).

The bus only has to get you to a larger metropolitan area that offers bus service to another larger metropolitan area until you can get a connection directly to your intended destination.

The same for rail....you only need to connect or pass-by the next connection on your journey (something RFG would already have researched and prepared).

We just had our first week of rifle deer season in PA and human remains were found near a rest stop in Western Pennsylvania. Hunters find lots of remains, especially when the weather is warm and no snow is on the ground.

I feel the easiest exits from Lewisburg were JJ's "helper" theory.....preferably a family member.

The next easiest is the bus, but, while a low risk, you still risk someone recognizing/remembering you.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Has Patty taken a poly? I know they investigated her...but I find it all very fishy...how do we know that the dissapearence of RG didn't happen in the night?

Yes, in July of 2005.

I feel like Patty could have dumped the hard drive as a red herring and I also don't trust witnesses no matter who they are that say they saw Ray that day... especially if he frequented the area.

He didn't frequent the area, but he'd been there; he knew his way around.

Patty stood to profit from Ray's death. Plain and simple.

Actually, no. His daughter is the heir, not PEF. It was PEF's family home, and RFG paid some of the bills. He was not on the deed. While RFG paid for the Mini, he put it in PEF's name. It was hers whether or not he showed up again.

He could only pay those bills while he was there; within a fortnight of his disappearance, the county suspended his salary. He could no longer contribute to the household expenses.

Financially, PEF was better off on 4/14 than on 4/16.

I don't know if PEF gets any life insurance, but LG gets the pension. One report had it over $300 K. LG also gets the money in the bank, over $100 K; PEF gets zero.

That, along with a mountain of evidence putting RFG in Lewisburg on 4/15, and putting PEF in Bellefonte, kind of rules her out.

 

[minazoe]

and let me add this...Patty had Ray's passwords.

How many women do you know who in a moment of very poor judgement might pull out a man's laptop and check it out?

maybe something on that laptop made Patty mad.


you know it would be nothing to arrange a phonecall to her work from Ray's cellphone.


I just don't like it...and I feel like KAREN doesn't like it either.

 

[minazoe]

Yes, in July of 2005.



He didn't frequent the area, but he'd been there; he knew his way around.



Actually, no. His daughter is the heir, not PEF. It was PEF's family home, and RFG paid some of the bills. He was not on the deed. While RFG paid for the Mini, he put it in PEF's name. It was hers whether or not he showed up again.

He could only pay those bills while he was there; within a fortnight of his disappearance, the county suspended his salary. He could no longer contribute to the household expenses.

Financially, PEF was better off on 4/14 than on 4/16.

I don't know if PEF gets any life insurance, but LG gets the pension. One report had it over $300 K. LG also gets the money in the bank, over $100 K; PEF gets zero.

That, along with a mountain of evidence putting RFG in Lewisburg on 4/15, and putting PEF in Bellefonte, kind of rules her out.

okay wow...okay...still don't like it for some reason and I think there are cops out there that look sideways at Patty.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

and let me add this...Patty had Ray's passwords.

I'm not sure about that at all, especially for the office computer.

you know it would be nothing to arrange a phonecall to her work from Ray's cellphone.

A couple of problems with that. First the call was not to PEF directly, but the office. Once put through, if someone was on the line with PEF, the call would bounce to another phone.

Second, from what I've heard, PEF was covering for another worker, who was in the restroom. I'm not able to confirm that completely, but Disappeared indicated that she was "filling in as a receptionist." That would be hard to plan.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I had a great theory about PEF that started in late 2005 and lasted until 2006, when someone told me she was at the gym after work. Basically, there isn't a big enough gap in her time line for her to get to Lewisburg and back.

 

[minazoe]

Patty was the last person to see Ray...he wasn't at the courthouse that day, correct?

so aside from the video of him going into his office there is no absolute knowledge of where Ray might have been, leading up to this supposed call to Patty at the courthouse.

I think she was very quick to report him missing.

 

[minazoe]

pehaps Ray went to the office looking for his missing laptop? maybe he thought he misplaced it and was freaking out..

I know I'm crazy.

 

[minazoe]

Ray is a very attractive man from what I can see...unless he's super short or has a fat body and a cute face or a giant bald spot... I know love is blind but Patty? hmmmm I can see her being a jealous FREAK.

just sayin....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Patty was the last person to see Ray...he wasn't at the courthouse that day, correct?

so aside from the video of him going into his office there is no absolute knowledge of where Ray might have been, leading up to this supposed call to Patty at the courthouse.

I think she was very quick to report him missing.

He was in on the evening of 4/14, not 4/15.

It was about 12 hours from last contact and she had been trying to contact him for 3-4 hours. He was also known for driving very fast; RFG in an accident was on everyone's mind at that point.

While PEF was the last person RFG knew to talk with him, there was a reported sighting by the "courthouse worker" in Centre Hall on 4/15. I think it would be reasonable to assume that someone who would recognize RFG saw him on 4/15, after PEF did. That may not be the sole witness.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

pehaps Ray went to the office looking for his missing laptop? maybe he thought he misplaced it and was freaking out..

I know I'm crazy.

He kept it at home.

 

[Snarky247]

One thing that keeps nagging me. RFG had a lot of money in the bank & I am assuming that LE has done a thorough examination of withdrawals, moved funds, etc in the days prior to his disappearance. If he did actually walk away, it would have had to been with the financial support of someone else - someone who has the resources but who also has reasons not to disclose information. If RFG is still alive, I can't help but think it was either government (WPP) or possibly a very wealthy Penn State backer who paid him to vanish. (Yeah - the PSU thing is a real reach but hey - stranger things have happened).

FWIW, I believe Ray is dead and my vision is he'll be found somewhere in semi-plain sight - possibly the victim of an accident where he went for a walk in the woods to clear his head & was injured. Call me crazy, but there's this part of me that says it was all much simpler than we currently think.