PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[J. J. in Phila]

He had been seen in Lewisburg with one, possibly two other women. PFo was mad as heck ( and I have gone back and reviewed all her TH segs. on ID-- she is very very angry). 911 had been called and helicopters were in the air before the weekend was over.
I'd say that IF he was planning to come back, he kinda screwed that up himself.. He and the young blonde...

He was known to take off on occasion.

Not that I think for one second that he drove 50 miles, destroyed a computer, had a thing going on with Mrs. Jones, just to go back to that house in Bellefonte that didn't bear his name. Uh uh, No way.
The details indicate to me that he planned a permanent leave-taking for a very long time. ONLY variable I see at this point may be/ probably is the woman...

I would not put it past him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What the heck, the best way to destroy/erase a hard drive is to hit it with a hammer. No need for that Level 7 Government Wipe Crapacola...of course that may NOT have been known circa 2005.

Actually, that would not work. You could keep the drive from functioning normally, but data could still be recovered.

 

[SeekingJana]

Send the Summons to Centre County !!!

I'm a doofus. What I meant is that they now have it back in their evidence room.
It made me very sad to remember that, so I went to post on the JR " Shady" thread,.. It's funny.
Hugs!1

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Actually, that would not work. You could keep the drive from functioning normally, but data could still be recovered.

That could depend...if the disc gets banged/smashed well enough...odds are slim. The erasure software you can forget. Even the top notch Government Wipey stuff leaves enough on there for recovery. I think RFG did well enough knowing to toss that HD, in spite of not being Geeky enough. If it were me, that HD would have been smashed and then drowned. MOO...

 

[SeekingJana]

Wow...you are hitting on all 8 cylinders tonite !

Thanks. ZoomZoom!! :Banane10:

 

[Pensfan]

I haven't read much about RG's girlfriend, but what I have has been wretched. Could she have been so controlling that Ray decided he would never be able to escape from her unless he faked his own death? Could she have been soooo miserable that he was willing to live in poverty the rest of his life (never able to use his law degree or name again) to escape from her?

 

[SeekingJana]

Why didn't the use her vehicle, if she was the helper? A helper without a vehicle would be useless.

Because his car was RIGHT THERE and hers was a block or more away at that time, and she really needed to GO somewhere right then ( BR, restaurant, take your pick but one or the other).
Because he was sort of OCD and had to re-check the cell phone being turned off one more time so she said "I'm going too". ( She wondered if he might be gonna call that PFo chick again).

My fave:
Because they needed the dang HD out of the computer, he couldn't do it, so she said " Hand it to me and I'll unlock the door". Posts with song references are fun to make.

 

[SeekingJana]

I haven't read much about RG's girlfriend, but what I have has been wretched. Could she have been so controlling that Ray decided he would never be able to escape from her unless he faked his own death? Could she have been soooo miserable that he was willing to live in poverty the rest of his life (never able to use his law degree or name again) to escape from her?

She is a very angry lady, I know that. Also, at one time, posters from that area up there talked about the Fornicola family influence, suggesting that it was fairly massive.

He was less than 8 months away from never using his law degree again anyway ( but there would have been a fairly healthy pension)..

I personally think that he and the Mystery Blonde Young Lady (MBYL) had considerable financial assests in offshore accounts.

I don't think Ray Gricar would " live poor" for ONE DAY any more than I would. No.

 

[cloudbuster05]

I haven't read much about RG's girlfriend, but what I have has been wretched. Could she have been so controlling that Ray decided he would never be able to escape from her unless he faked his own death? Could she have been soooo miserable that he was willing to live in poverty the rest of his life (never able to use his law degree or name again) to escape from her?

I have two friends that met Patty and she is about 5'2 to 5'4 in height and cries very easily when she speaks about how much she misses Ray. She spoke about the dog Honey dying not to long after Ray disappeared. Most don't know that Patty is a much younger person than Ray. He already had a young woman in Patty. If he was lets say in a mid life crisis, he had Patty, a much younger woman. Ray had no problem telling his two ex wives he wanted a divorce, so no reason for him to fear telling a live in he would be exiting the relationship. Hope this helps.

 

[SeekingJana]

That could depend...if the disc gets banged/smashed well enough...odds are slim. The erasure software you can forget. Even the top notch Government Wipey stuff leaves enough on there for recovery. I think RFG did well enough knowing to toss that HD, in spite of not being Geeky enough. If it were me, that HD would have been smashed and then drowned. MOO...

JJ's right. Mechanical damage like a hammer won't do it. Think of a cassette tape ( you know, back in the 80's when we were children). You could, if you were careful and valued the tape extremely, remove a pretty banged up tape from your car dash and patch it up and get it to play again.
Same thing with a HD. Basically, it only contains two numbers 0s and 1s.

You can freeze it, burn it ( Space shuttle Columbia), smash it and data recovery specialists can still read your HD.

There are 2 methods of HD erasure known to me:
1) Very strong magnet for at least 24 hours followed by 2) Overwriting the complete HD code with random 0s and 1s. That's what the " wiping" programs do.

The water only corroded the metallic parts. The data was erased/ changed by the program or programs Ray used. And I'm going to hell for telling people how to erase their or someone else's HD.

 

[SeekingJana]

I couldn't sleep so I re-read LC's excellent article about Mrs. Ivy Butterworth's sighting of Ray with a young blonde lady in his Mini.

Here's what we know from the news article:
1) Mrs. Butterworth states that her daughter works in the SOS. So she has a grown offspring.
2) Mrs. Butterworth also states that she saw the Mini while she was out jogging along the streets in the SOS area..

So, she is probably in her mid 40's to mid 50's but probably not older or much younger.
When a person in their mid 40's describes another female as " young", I'm thinking the lady looked to be in her 20's. PROBABLY in the age range of Mrs. Butterworth's daughter's age.

This is all info which is in the news article Lord Chatterly posted a couple of days ago. I didn't do any type of people search to obtain the info. The witness gave it to the newspaper herself.

The only new thought I have had was-- could this *possibly* have been Lara Gricar or a friend of hers? I think the age range is only slightly older than Lara's age.

Thanks!

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Here is something "newsy" of Ivy Butterworth, Milton, Pa. :

http://www.northcentralpa.com/feeditem/2009-10-30_october-30th-2009

Scroll down to the Milton Police report. Interesting.


The following: MILTON - A Milton man was jailed after he allegedly stole jewelry, cash and a laptop computer from his mother to support his heroin habit. The Daily Item reports, 23-year-old Nicholas Machusak, has been charged with burglary, theft and related counts for the October 20th theft at the home of Ivy Butterworth. He's now jailed in the Northumberland County lock-up.
Jim Diehl (WGRC)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I haven't read much about RG's girlfriend, but what I have has been wretched. Could she have been so controlling that Ray decided he would never be able to escape from her unless he faked his own death? Could she have been soooo miserable that he was willing to live in poverty the rest of his life (never able to use his law degree or name again) to escape from her?

Frankly, no.

1. RFG was planning not to practice law after retirement, so that would not have been an issue.

2. He had no property interest there, so he could move out at any time. She basically had zero financial hold over him.

3. I've never had the impression she was "controlling." She was a bit insular. She was still living in the same house she grew up in and when she went away to college, it was about 11 miles down the road.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just thinking about PEF being "controlling":

1. RFG is her boss and can fire her.

2. RFG, while he did contribute to the household bills, didn't pay rent.

3. RFG bought the Mini as a "gift," put it in PEF's name, but drove it almost exclusively.

4. RFG liked to travel, so they went where he liked to go. They were going to travel across the country, but go to his daughter's house. There first date was Cleveland.

5. RFG was planning to retire, so, at 40-41, PEF would stop working and join him.

If that is "controlling," I'd hate to see "doormat."

 

[AllisonS]

I couldn't sleep so I re-read LC's excellent article about Mrs. Ivy Butterworth's sighting of Ray with a young blonde lady in his Mini.

Here's what we know from the news article:
1) Mrs. Butterworth states that her daughter works in the SOS. So she has a grown offspring.
2) Mrs. Butterworth also states that she saw the Mini while she was out jogging along the streets in the SOS area..

So, she is probably in her mid 40's to mid 50's but probably not older or much younger.
When a person in their mid 40's describes another female as " young", I'm thinking the lady looked to be in her 20's. PROBABLY in the age range of Mrs. Butterworth's daughter's age.



Thanks!

That's the age range I was getting too. I was leaning a little more toward the late 40's rather than 50's though...just based on the 80's hair and the age I know most people still 'stuck in the 80's' tend to be.

 

[AllisonS]

Here is something "newsy" of Ivy Butterworth, Milton, Pa. :

http://www.northcentralpa.com/feeditem/2009-10-30_october-30th-2009

Scroll down to the Milton Police report. Interesting.


The following: MILTON - A Milton man was jailed after he allegedly stole jewelry, cash and a laptop computer from his mother to support his heroin habit. The Daily Item reports, 23-year-old Nicholas Machusak, has been charged with burglary, theft and related counts for the October 20th theft at the home of Ivy Butterworth. He's now jailed in the Northumberland County lock-up.
Jim Diehl (WGRC)

IVY?! Oh, it gets worse! :floorlaugh:

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Just thinking about PEF being "controlling":

1. RFG is her boss and can fire her.

2. RFG, while he did contribute to the household bills, didn't pay rent.

3. RFG bought the Mini as a "gift," put it in PEF's name, but drove it almost exclusively.

4. RFG liked to travel, so they went where he liked to go. They were going to travel across the country, but go to his daughter's house. There first date was Cleveland.

5. RFG was planning to retire, so, at 40-41, PEF would stop working and join him.

If that is "controlling," I'd hate to see "doormat."

Some good thoughts here, JJ. I may be wrong, but I thought RFG had been paying 'the mortgage' for PF (and since this is the same home she lived in since her youth, I had been suspect a mortgage would still not be paid off).

If I am correct, that would add further to your comment.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

IVY?! Oh, it gets worse! :floorlaugh:

LoL, Allison. Glad you enjoyed this one. We can all have a good time with this one. Hmmm...Ivy B (now IB ?) happens to own a laptop (yikes, she may be here on WS)...now is she going to toss her HD too ?...ok, ok...let's see Jana's take on all this ...lmao.

PS: Nudge Nudge JJ ...hehe

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Some good thoughts here, JJ. I may be wrong, but I thought RFG had been paying 'the mortgage' for PF (and since this is the same home she lived in since her youth, I had been suspect a mortgage would still not be paid off).

If I am correct, that would add further to your comment.

She inherited and has brothers, so I'm assuming that it might have been a settlement of the estate, i.e. she bought off her siblings share. If that is the case, the mortgage may have been much smaller than thought. Also, by the time he moved in, I think she was paying on it for a few years.

As I said, RFG contributed to the household expenses, but he could have just come home one day and said, "I'm leaving." I'd be calling the guy a bounder if he lived there and made PEF pay for everything.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

LoL, Allison. Glad you enjoyed this one. We can all have a good time with this one. Hmmm...Ivy B (now IB ?) happens to own a laptop (yikes, she may be here on WS)...now is she going to toss her HD too ?...ok, ok...let's see Jana's take on all this ...lmao.

PS: Nudge Nudge JJ ...hehe

It is not too strange for someone to have a laptop; I don't, but I rarely travel. That her son might have a problem really isn't relevant.