Paint tote

Well, JBR was the first child she killed, so there wouldn't be any priors.

Not looking for prior child murders, just prior rambling notes, insane deeds, or violent behavior that could be used to establish that either JR or PR even had any notion what a garrote or a countermeasure was.
 
The garrotte wasn't actually a properly working garrotte, and it certainly isn't required to know what a garrotte is to strangle someone with a cord, whether tied to a stick or not. PR and JR need not have had that knowledge. JBR was strangled with something else first, though not to the death, and the cord was used to hide that event. That seemed more in keeping with a "kidnapping/murder".
If ONLY more thorough forensics had been done- I wonder if those red turtleneck fibers would have been found in that "triangular abrasion".
 
Not looking for prior child murders, just prior rambling notes, insane deeds, or violent behavior that could be used to establish that either JR or PR even had any notion what a garrote or a countermeasure was.

there were no prior rambling notes (at least you admit it was that),because Patsy hadn't killed her yet,so there was no need to desperately try to cover her own arse.The RN was a ridiculous attempt to do just that.
Insane deeds?? Oh my...Coloradokares and I agree on that one..we have a relative similar.I think most ppl would have to know someone like that or be a Dr. w/ psych training to understand all the personality problems that occur in ppl like Patsy.And btw,I don't count Dr Beuf as a professional,his behavior was very unprofessional to say the least.
There need not be past violent behavior,what I think occurred is something I experienced w. my relative called acute decompensation.He doesn't have a violent past either.(thankfully I was able to get LE on the scene before that happened).
LHP described Patsy's personality prior to the murder,pls do some research on that.I think she was going into a mood swing.
There were a lot of stressors going on at the time that could have set her off.Even so,there need not be a stressor at the time for someone w/ bpd to go into a mood swing.
Perhaps you would have an idea on why the video of Christmas morning disappeared???? ..my guess is Patsy lost it over JB not liking the doll.PPl with bpd tend to have very short fuses,and the least little thing can set them off.Often the outside world doesn't see it...they only 'cut loose',so to speak,with ppl they are comfortable with.Manipulation can be a big part of mental illness..because when you think about it,mentally ill ppl have to be manipulative in order to appear something they aren't.Patsy's tight grip around JB's arm in the photo that morning is a big tip off to the internal rage she was feeling,as others have said.
And btw,ppl with bpd don't necessarily appear all out crazy to the rest of the world,although if it gets bad enough,it can come to that ..it's a MOOD disorder.It can also affect energy levels.
For example,one of my mom's friends was getting up in the middle of the night to do housework...she thought her friend was just worried about getting her housework done.She wasn't....that's manic behavior.To a lay person,it can appear that way,because she wasn't 'crazy' out of her mind.She knew who and where she was.There need not be disorientation going on for someone to be in a mood swing and act completely out of character.
What I mostly see with bpd is others taking their behaviors way too literally.I'm not saying every person who gets up to do something at night is manic; her behavior w. that was extreme.But later on,her daughter tried to kill herself.Again, lay ppl might misinterpret that.Just from that little bit of info she told me,I'd say her friend is manic-depressive,and her daughter inherited it.(they did both get treatment,and although I don't know the official dx,I'd bet the house on it being bpd for both of them).Her friend was on the upside of it when doing the excessive housework,and her daughter was on the downside of it when she tried to kill herself.
I believe Patsy also had some personality disorders,and was a bit ADD as well.They can go in conjunction w. a Dx of bpd.She certainly did exhibit tendencies for all 3.
 
Even the 'fat cat' reference, probably linked to class struggle, can be of foreign origin. The term expresses a POV against personal wealth. This POV is more likely to be held by a foreigner than a US citizen.

I guess that the fact that she was swaddled or wrapped like a papoose is done in many foreign countries too. I guess that it is a custom in some foreign countries, that when you break into someones home, and write an almost three page ransom note, and linger for hours, feed a child pineapple and sip tea...and then kill the child that you had actually MEANT to kidnap....you then wrap the body "in a loving manner", like a "papoose". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And again I say....:rolleyes: Yep, sounds just like something that a member of a small foreign faction would do alright...:rolleyes: Oh yeah...and did I mention.....:rolleyes:
 
Not looking for prior child murders, just prior rambling notes, insane deeds, or violent behavior that could be used to establish that either JR or PR even had any notion what a garrote or a countermeasure was.

In JR 1998 interview...and I will post it if you need to see it....he refers to the garotte as a "twister". Doesn't sound like someone who doesn't have any notion to what a garrote or countermeasure is. On the contrary....sounds to me like JR is someone that knows an awful LOT about garottes....enough to know that they are called twisters....I didn't even know that, until I read his interview. The below link is very interesting...in SPANISH, a garotte is called a TWISTER. HMMMMM (Maybe John knew how to speak and read Spanish, afterall).

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/garotte

Modern Translations: Garotte

Language Translations for "garotte"; alternative meanings/domain in parentheses.Hungarian

megfojtás (choke, choking, garrotte, smothering, strangling, strangulation), kivégzés nyakszorító vassal (garrotte), csavarófa (garrote, garrotte). (various references)
Indonesian

mencekik (choke, strangle). (various references)
Italian

garrotta (garrotte), strangolare con la garrotta (garrotte). (various references)
Pig Latin

arottegay.(various references)
Portuguese

garrotear (garrotte), garrote (defect, Esmarch tourniquet, garrotte, kink, tie, top of shoulder, tourniquet, withers), floreado (flowery, twirl), estrangular (choke, emote, garrotte, mug, quell, scrag, strangle, strangulate, suffocate, suppress, throttle), esganar (garrotte, strangle, throttle), assalto (assault, attack, blow, bout, break in, burglary, flaw, garrotte, mugging, onfall, onset, push, raid, robbery, rush, shock). (various references)
Spanish

garrote (bludgeon, club, dancer, defect, garrote, garrotte, kink, springer, truncheon, twister), dar garrote a (garrote, garrotte), agarrotar (garrote, garrotte, squeeze tight). (various references)
Turkish

boğazlamak (butcher, choke, garrote, slaughter, strangle), boğazlama, boğazını sıkarak boğma, boğarak idam etmek (garrote, garrotte), boğarak idam (garrote, garrotte). (various references)
Ukranian

страчувати за допомогою гаротти (garrotte), гаррота (garrotte), задушення з метою пограбування (garrotte), задушити з метою пограбування (garrotte). (various references)
Vietnamese

hình phạt thắt cổ (garrotte). (various references)
 
Now that is just eery!! What was it with Patsy, french stuff...and the word victory? I know that she claimed to be very religiious....so, that is why I think that she liked the word victory...and SBTC means....Saved ByThe Cross.
interesting that Patsy took JB to Dr Beuf so many times in her short life.Did she specifically want attention from a Dr w/ a french name? I know some have said she was thought to have had munchasen (sp) by proxy syndrome.
 
interesting that Patsy took JB to Dr Beuf so many times in her short life.Did she specifically want attention from a Dr w/ a french name? I know some have said she was thought to have had munchasen (sp) by proxy syndrome.

Yeah, I had a neighbor with that...so, I know what it is like to know someone with it. I think that those people that believe that Patsy had Munchasen by proxy are probably correct.
 
I guess that the fact that she was swaddled or wrapped like a papoose is done in many foreign countries too. I guess that it is a custom in some foreign countries, that when you break into someones home, and write an almost three page ransom note, and linger for hours, feed a child pineapple and sip tea...and then kill the child that you had actually MEANT to kidnap....you then wrap the body "in a loving manner", like a "papoose". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And again I say....:rolleyes: Yep, sounds just like something that a member of a small foreign faction would do alright...:rolleyes: Oh yeah...and did I mention.....:rolleyes:

I wasn't going to use the papoose idea as another example of foreign culture, but you can if you want. Its probably a good idea. There was a brutal foreign murder I read about where the victims mouths were covered and their nostrils plugged, so I don't find the fact she was wrapped in an unusual way and her mouth taped adds anything to the RDI argument whatsoever.
 
In JR 1998 interview...and I will post it if you need to see it....he refers to the garotte as a "twister". Doesn't sound like someone who doesn't have any notion to what a garrote or countermeasure is. On the contrary....sounds to me like JR is someone that knows an awful LOT about garottes....enough to know that they are called twisters....I didn't even know that, until I read his interview. The below link is very interesting...in SPANISH, a garotte is called a TWISTER. HMMMMM (Maybe John knew how to speak and read Spanish, afterall).

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/garotte

Modern Translations: Garotte

Language Translations for "garotte"; alternative meanings/domain in parentheses.Hungarian

megfojtás (choke, choking, garrotte, smothering, strangling, strangulation), kivégzés nyakszorító vassal (garrotte), csavarófa (garrote, garrotte). (various references)
Indonesian

mencekik (choke, strangle). (various references)
Italian

garrotta (garrotte), strangolare con la garrotta (garrotte). (various references)
Pig Latin

arottegay.(various references)
Portuguese

garrotear (garrotte), garrote (defect, Esmarch tourniquet, garrotte, kink, tie, top of shoulder, tourniquet, withers), floreado (flowery, twirl), estrangular (choke, emote, garrotte, mug, quell, scrag, strangle, strangulate, suffocate, suppress, throttle), esganar (garrotte, strangle, throttle), assalto (assault, attack, blow, bout, break in, burglary, flaw, garrotte, mugging, onfall, onset, push, raid, robbery, rush, shock). (various references)
Spanish

garrote (bludgeon, club, dancer, defect, garrote, garrotte, kink, springer, truncheon, twister), dar garrote a (garrote, garrotte), agarrotar (garrote, garrotte, squeeze tight). (various references)
Turkish

boğazlamak (butcher, choke, garrote, slaughter, strangle), boğazlama, boğazını sıkarak boğma, boğarak idam etmek (garrote, garrotte), boğarak idam (garrote, garrotte). (various references)
Ukranian

страчувати за допомогою гаротти (garrotte), гаррота (garrotte), задушення з метою пограбування (garrotte), задушити з метою пограбування (garrotte). (various references)
Vietnamese

hình phạt thắt cổ (garrotte). (various references)​

Yeah, but the twister remark is after the murder. You've only established that JR had some knowledge of a garrote after the murder. What RDI can't seem to do is show that either JR or PR had any knowledge of garrotes before the murder. That's probably because they didn't have any.
 
The below link is very interesting...in SPANISH, a garotte is called a TWISTER. HMMMMM (Maybe John knew how to speak and read Spanish, afterall).

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/garotte

Wasn't the stun gun video that John had in Spanish??(Not that I think a stun gun was involved.) And, heck, maybe John didn't speak or understand Spanish at all. But it is another interesting tidbit that a garrote can be called a "twister" in Spanish.
 
Yes, it was in Spanish. JR tried to use that as the ridiculous argument that they couldn't have used a stun gun on their daughter because they couldn't understant the video. As if that would ever stop anyone. I have one appliance that only had directions in Japanese- I still could figure out how to use it.
 
Now that is just eery!! What was it with Patsy, french stuff...and the word victory? I know that she claimed to be very religiious....so, that is why I think that she liked the word victory...and SBTC means....Saved ByThe Cross.
Did you notice that the name Collette is basically at the end of the birth story just like Victory is at the end of the note?


-Tea

p.s. Congrats on your new baby!
 
Yeah, but the twister remark is after the murder. You've only established that JR had some knowledge of a garrote after the murder. What RDI can't seem to do is show that either JR or PR had any knowledge of garrotes before the murder. That's probably because they didn't have any.

So, what you are saying is that AFTER the murder, John studied up on Garottes??? John: "Hey Patsy, look at this!! I was studing up on garottes...and look what I found!! Gee, it seems that another word for garotte is twister...in Spanish. I think that I will use that word when I am being interviewed about the murder, because it makes me sound smart..and extremely knowledgeable about garottes".
 
Wasn't the stun gun video that John had in Spanish??(Not that I think a stun gun was involved.) And, heck, maybe John didn't speak or understand Spanish at all. But it is another interesting tidbit that a garrote can be called a "twister" in Spanish.

Yep, and that's what I meant by (in my previous post) maybe John knew how to read and or speak Spanish afterall). I don't think that a stun gun was used either. But, yes..the stun gun pamplet that the Ramsey's had, was in Spanish.
 
Did you notice that the name Collette is basically at the end of the birth story just like Victory is at the end of the note?


-Tea

p.s. Congrats on your new baby!

No, I didn't. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks for the congrats!! I posted some pictures of her over at FFJ (Under the thread, "...show us your Christmas trees". I know that she is not a tree....but, some people over there wanted to see her.)
 
Not only "cover her with her own blanket"....but, wrap her "like a papoose" in her own blanket. (She was wrapped like a papoose....and this is from John's own mouth...in his 1998 interview.)

9 MIKE KANE: This is really important.

10 That blanket, I mean, was it like there was care

11 taken? It was neatly folded?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: I thought so, yeah.
13 MIKE KANE: It wasn't like it was just

14 barely thrown over her?

15 JOHN RAMSEY: No, it looked like somebody

16 was trying to make her comfortable, because it was

17 under her, completely under her head and brought

18 up around her, as if you would wrap a --

19 MIKE KANE: Papoose?

20 JOHN RAMSEY: -- a papoose.



From Ames : Sounds like the way you would swaddle a baby....



Great post Ames. Great!!! This would have been great to post at CLibrary when they were all arguing that JB was NOT wrapped lovingingly or caringly at all. From John's own mouth.
 
Yeah, but the twister remark is after the murder. You've only established that JR had some knowledge of a garrote after the murder. What RDI can't seem to do is show that either JR or PR had any knowledge of garrotes before the murder. That's probably because they didn't have any.

Well he was stationed in the Phillipines (sp) was he not where the favorite form of execution at one time was the GARROTTE. At the very least, he had to have heard of it there and at the very least had to have seen pictures of it there. Please Holdon, you are so predictable.:cool:

Holdon,

Why are you not also posting at CrimeLibrary? Just curious.
 
Great post Ames. Great!!! This would have been great to post at CLibrary when they were all arguing that JB was NOT wrapped lovingingly or caringly at all. From John's own mouth.

AHHHH, they would have twisted it around somehow....(they are GOOD at that)...to make it look like John didn't really say that....or that he was asked a leading question....or that he was on nerve medicine, or that he was sleepy, or that he didn't have enough coffee that morning, or that he was just making it all up to protect the "intruder".
 

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