Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #9

[Beyond Belief]

And he wasn't out of money, as foreign money was in his possession at the time of his capture.

 

[Belinda]

Let me know if you guys need a case calendar started for your hard work. The calendar is right here on the premises.

Could someone tell me what a case calendar is? TIA.

 

[Patty G]

On Nancy's show last night, the Peruvian reporter indicated that Joran wore the same white shirt to go and get coffee ~8:00 AM. We have read that the white shirt has blood on it and either was covering Stephany, or on the bed or in the room.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/08/ng.01.html

Of course we haven't seen the video of Joran leaving for coffee with the white shirt on, as this would at least, prove he wore the white shirt. However, does it prove Stephany was really alive at that point when Joran went for coffee? Nope!

Joran could have covered Stephany's body with the white shirt after he returned with coffee as a ruse to throw off the timeline once Stephany was discovered.

IMO, Joran killed Stephany once he returned from the coffee trip. Although, it doesn't really matter when he killed Stephany, what matters to me IS that HE killed Stephany and at least confessed to killing her even though his reasons why he did this is very questionable.

 

[Wings Of Light]

Colombian intelligence agency DAS ruled out a report that linked Dutchman Johan Van der Sloot, who arrested on Thursday for the murder of a 21 year-old Peruvian girl, with the disappearance of two young girls in Bogota.

A DAS official told W Radio Wednesday morning that their records indicate that Van der Sloot was indeed in Colombia, but that he was merely in transit to his final destination of Lima, Peru, and never left Bogota's El Dorado airport.


http://colombiareports.com/colombia...tchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

Yeah, I was expecting this. The only place I've ever seen it reported was on personal blogs, and elcomercio.pe, which as you now know, is very often incorrect, and tends to sensationalize rumors.

 

[MCDRAW]

Take the time to search for tides, but leave your clothes behind not making sense to me. imo

I'm thinking because he still owed money for services that it threw him off. Because I think he had a plan to dispose of SF until he remembered he owed them money. Then got worried about them stopping him and then he rushed to get out of there. The only thinkg is he is so clam and methodical. Some people when they have a plan and something changes , they can't figure out there next move. I don't know if Joran is that way or not but it might explain why he left evidence behind. I'm not sure he even cared if they knew he did it. He just needed to get somewhere where they wouldn't extradict him.JMO

 

[justus4all]

With her body so badly beaten, I am still wondering if she screamed out for help..UNLESS she was being held down and her mouth into a pillow...I wonder she was lying on the bed while he was beating her...and he moved her to the floor after she died...By the photo..the mattress appears shifted of the bed...like during a struggle..

I believe the autopsey will reveal whether she was moved AFTER she died..

I do not believe his story that she was on his computer when he came back to the room..She apparently was found with her pants (jeans) removed..What woman just meeting a guy..going to his room..removing her pants to ...scroll thru his computer...while he goes for coffee??? Wasn't she a lesbian?? Probably no interest in sex with him..WHY were her pants off??..There was a reason her pants were off...Makes no sense that SHE would take them off....IF no sex intended..then WHY?????

 

[Patty G]

Could someone tell me what a case calendar is? TIA.

A case calendar is similar to your own home calendar where you put scheduled appointments for doctors, etc, etc.

 

[mosouri]

Do you think Joran was not on the run..he was on his way to find a cooperative fisherman/boater to help him dispose of her body in the sea? He may have found a connection and was going to meet with this person, and then return to Lima and get the body somehow. He certainly wasn't organized but was planning minute by minute.
If it worked with Natalie, he supposed it would work with SF.

I would not be surprised if he has involved another person in this, or persons to help him...in his past he involved the Kalpoe brothers, his parents, the guy with the party boat, and who knows who else to cover up his mess.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I know I will get bopped for this, but I don't think this is his story, I think this is theirs, and he ended up agreeing with it.
I don't trust them. Not that I trust him either, but it certainly is more convenient for them if he confesses to their theory.

 

[justus4all]

I believe the reason he left so much evidence behind, there was ALWAYS someone else...to "clean up his messes"....Dumping her in the ocean was probably his plan...BUT ...he had..NO ONE..to ..DO THAT FOR HIM....

I don't believe he was searching for someone to dump her, due to that might take some time ..plus..going back for her body...would be risky..

In the past, he probably DID..have help/cover up/..with NH's body..right away..probably that same night....BUT...NOT THIS TIME...
all in my own opinion

 

[jilly]

Since we're hearing that joran is saying his confession was coerced, do you think he's refusing to do the re-enactment - thus the delay?

It looked like he was going to get a much lighter sentence as it was - mitigating factors - confession and the fact he was under the influence of marijuana.

I was surprised to hear:

CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, I spoke with a public defender here in Lima today. And are you sitting down for this one? Here in Peru, there are mitigating factors that we do not have in the United States. One of those is the use of an intoxicant. That can help you when you get before a judge.

And I also said to her, what about coming here for this re-creation? Can`t you stop it? Can`t you say, no, my client won`t do this? And it seemed very foreign to her. She wanted him to come to look -- to do this re-creation because it`s in his benefit that he`s accepting the responsibility.

The state of mind here in Peru is that when you plead guilty, that that is a good thing in a sense because it truly can lessen your sentence and there`s two for one here in Peru. Meaning, if you serve one day of sentence, you can get two days of credit. So a term of 15 years can be cut down to 50 percent of that that you`ll actually serve.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/08/ng.01.html

 

[justus4all]

Here is my opinion..on reducing his sentence...2 years, 5 years, 10 years, etc....

He will not last long in the Peru prisons...

 

[MCDRAW]

I know I will get bopped for this, but I don't think this is his story, I think this is theirs, and he ended up agreeing with it.
I don't trust them. Not that I trust him either, but it certainly is more convenient for them if he confesses to their theory.

You are probably right. I probably should care. But I know he got away with Natalee's death. Even if there was not any evidence (I think there was) proving that he killed Natalee, his actions over the last 5 years would have proven it to me. I see Joran as very dangerous. He's 22 and already suspected in two deaths. That's scary. This story might not be the way it happened but I believe he killed her. So I guess I am saying I really don't care what story they are telling as long as it keeps him off the streets. But I don't want him to be treated inhumanely either.

 

[Patty G]

A thought came to me regarding the "computer, May 30th (5th anniversary) extortion/wire transfer case."

Could it be possible that Joran looked at an email, perhaps from Beth's attorney or whoever on the other end of the "sting" prior to meeting Stephany telling Joran "that no further money is coming your way until you give up what we want" and then Joran went on a hunt to find a woman to bring back to his room?

It was reported Joran was looking for women and "perhaps" Joran wanted to find someone and kill her as a way to get back at the people no longer giving him money. I am sure Joran was very well aware of the date and that is may be possible that it wasn't just a coincidence.

My mind is all over the place. :crazy:

ETA: The more I think about what I wrote it seems possible. The US Attorney didn't file for the arrest warrant for the extortion and wire fraud charges until June 3, 2010. It never made sense why it took so long to charge Joran, based on the information they provided and the info we now know.

It was stated that the US didn't have sufficient evidence to charge Joran, however we now know there really was enough evidence to charge Joran as the FBI has Joran on tape counting the $10,000.00.

Something clearly happened prior to May 30th that set Joran into a tail-spin knowing he wasn't getting anymore money.

 

[Carrington]

Here is my opinion..on reducing his sentence...2 years, 5 years, 10 years, etc....

He will not last long in the Peru prisons...

That's exactly what I think also. None of the little details matter, it's the whole picture that her family is looking at.

IMO

 

[Columbo]

I know I will get bopped for this, but I don't think this is his story, I think this is theirs, and he ended up agreeing with it.
I don't trust them. Not that I trust him either, but it certainly is more convenient for them if he confesses to their theory.

I'm not gonna bop you, Beyond Belief, because you could be right (and I don't bop people. lol!). However, I don't think Joran's story was produced by the police.

Just a hunch, of course, and I could be wrong.

This theory of mine could be wrong, too, but what if Joran did take Stephany to his room with the intention of "borrowing" money. He went to get coffee and bread, all the while thinking he had the transaction pretty much wrapped up. When he returned to the room, maybe she was researching his name on the computer because she didn't want to "loan" such a large amount of money to a complete stranger, she discovered his past history, and he flipped out.

Part of me says don't believe anything this guy says, but maybe he did tell the truth this time--especially if advised to do so by a lawyer. The timeline would also have to be corrected in order to make this theory work, because 20 minutes would not be long enough to kill Stephany (ugh, sorry) and do everything else he did on the way out. Of course, he did tell the police he took some amphetamines, and I don't know what he could accomplish while on speed.

 

[angelwngs]

Take the time to search for tides, but leave your clothes behind not making sense to me. imo

I agree! I had a thought... Wouldn't it be wild if SF did not mention much about herself to him and he searched tides with plans of disposing of her body and then thought to do a google search of her name just to see what popped up... what exactly he could expect in the aftermath and suddenly he found that her father was famous and highly respected there. That could explain him abandoning any attempt of a disposal of the body, him leaving suddenly and his fear of taking with him across borders a bloody shirt.

Also, why do you all think he went south to Chile rather than north to the safe confines of Aruba? (Because to Aruba was "to be expected" so he was trying to throw them off???)

 

[Nova]

I wasn't able to quote the post, but it is a misconception that you cannot introduce evidence of uncharged crimes (prior bad acts) during the penalty phase of a criminal trial in the United States--you absolutely can, and it happens all the time. The prior bad act doesn't even have to be related to the crime at issue (i.e. robbery conviction can introduce evidence of family violence). The way it works is the judge holds an in camera hearing where the proferred testimony is given and decides if there is a preponderance of the evidence that the act occurred. If the judge decides there is, it can come in.

With respect, SoCal, and though I'm not a lawyer, I believe the passage I highlighted above overstates your argument.

All evidence presented must be deemed "relevant" in some fashion. And with prior bad acts (whether they resulted in a conviction or merely an accusation), there is an issue as to whether the probity of the information outweighs its tendency to prejudice the trier of fact (judge or jury) against the defendant.

Perhaps you meant to say the prior bad act of which the defendant was accused doesn't have to show a propensity to commit the offense in the current proceeding. There are other grounds (impeaching the truthfulness of the defendant, for example) under which prior bad acts are admissible.

 

[MCDRAW]

Do you think Joran was not on the run..he was on his way to find a cooperative fisherman/boater to help him dispose of her body in the sea? He may have found a connection and was going to meet with this person, and then return to Lima and get the body somehow. He certainly wasn't organized but was planning minute by minute.
If it worked with Natalie, he supposed it would work with SF.

I would not be surprised if he has involved another person in this, or persons to help him...in his past he involved the Kalpoe brothers, his parents, the guy with the party boat, and who knows who else to cover up his mess.

Those people that helped in the Holloway case were friends of his. Or his Father paid to help. It's a little different in a different Country where he didn't have friends and family. Or at least I would think so.

 

[marmar]

Not sure if posted yet. If so, I apologize.

"In Peru, investigators are leaning on van der Sloot to give them information about Holloway's 2005 disappearance in Aruba during a school trip. He has been arrested twice in Aruba and remains the prime suspect, but has never been charged.

Master hackers hired by Peruvian authorities to examine his laptop have reportedly found pictures and other information relating to Holloway."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/joran-van-der-sloot-growing-link-natalee-holloway/story?id=10863952