Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[DaisyChains]

I'm glad you've found a theory here that you consider reasonable, but... I'm confused as to why you refer to Dr Hackett as "hapless". He admitted calling SG's family which requires a decision to do so... no luck, no fate, nor haplessness involved.

Dr Hackett is an oddball but I haven't seen any reports that he's mentally unstable (i.e. casually dating reality).

Agreed. Verone said that although Hackett is a bit eccentric and inserted himself into the case LE have no reason to believe he was involved in the killings. Also, Hackett has a wife and grown kids who stay with him at Oak Beach so having the opportunity is difficult. Also he has one leg and is elderly so he is at a physical disadvantage.

 

[DaisyChains]

My feeling on it all? Occam's razor. I think SG was the one victim that got away out of the burlap 4. Killer (IMO J Brewer as he fits the LISK profile quite well) decided to not share the burlap/dumping ground ritual with her when she was killed so as to not be tied to the 4 other victims, but he also made sure she was dead so she couldn't blow the whistle any further. JB's comments about thinking SG was possibly a trans person that disgusted him and his need to show himself as masculine and not wanting to be associated with trans people made me think not only is he a misogynist, but he maybe also has way too much history with hiring prostitutes and coming into contact with trans people - and that maybe Asian John Doe was one of the trans people that ran into Brewer and upset him to the point of being murdered (as Asian John Doe was curiously closer to the Gilgo 4 than the other victims found AND he was left intact like the other victims - but he wasn't female so there was no urge to follow the same naked in burlap protocol with him.

 

[Dottie72]

The reason why it took SCPD police longer to respond was b/c SG's 911 call was routed over to NYC dispatch, not Long Island dispatch.

It was routed to the NY State first. She told 911 she thought she was in Jones Beach. NYC is completly different. NYC is the five boroughs,(brooklyn, queens, staten island, bronx and manhattan) Oak Beach is in Suffolk County which is east of Nassau County.

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[DaisyChains]

It was routed to the NY State first. She told 911 she thought she was in Jones Beach. NYC is completly different. NYC is the five boroughs,(brooklyn, queens, staten island, bronx and manhattan) Oak Beach is in Suffolk County which is east of Nassau County.

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thanks for the clear up! i just wanted to point toward how the call was not dispatched correctly and resulted in a delay in police response (as well as SG not knowing exactly where she was). I meant to just write NY. Sorry I live in the desert in California. POINT BEING (b/c many have asked why here) the SCPD did not show up on time b/c SG had not much of a clue where she was and the call didn't go straight to Suffolk dispatch.

 

[DaisyChains]

My mind keeps going back to Joseph Brewer in regards to Shannon's disappearance, first his story about her asking him, has he ever come across a transvestite sex worker? and then he suddenly thinks she's a man and he then wants her out..after spending 3 hours with her he suddenly thinks she's a man? And then a transvestite sex worker is later found with his head smashed in on Gilgo beach... Second, he fits the profile of LISK that's been published on several MSM sites,40ish white male ,well educated and successful drives a nice vehicle. Next, there has been speculation that LISK is a seasonal killer operating in the summer possibly when his wife and kids are away etc,well Brewers main home was in West Islip and the Oak Beach place was his summer home. Here's a link to an blog post that shows a shot of his West Islip home http://animalnewyork.com/2010/west-islip-man-was-only-guilty-of-maybe-banging-a-hooker/. Also, people say he's been officially cleared but as of June 2011 it seems he hadn't been,,here's a snippet and a link in regards to that ,Diaz said he was never asked to take a lie detector test. Pak said he took one and passed with "flying colors." Brewer said he voluntarily took one but wasn’t told his results. Brewer also said he was cleared as a suspect, but when asked about Brewer last week, Suffolk County police would not comment. Here's the link to the article, http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html .I couldn't find anything to confirm that he was officially cleared at a later date. Lastly,Brewer claimed Shannon wasn't there for sex,well then what was she there for then? Maybe his thing wasn't sex but rather to strangle the girls without having sex and that's what happened to Shannon maybe he strangled her but not enough to kill her and she broke away and was able to call 911 and that why Shannon was so terrified.

From what I have heard police typically don't tell you whether or not you passed a lie detector during an active investigation. I've seen guilty people use the exact same wording "I passed the test with flying colors!" so many times it is so unnerving. So the fact MP says that is not lost on me. JB probably didn't pass and even if he did, psychos can pass those tests easy. He fits the profile perfectly. Divorced male with a summer house where he can have summertime kills. Everything you said about Brewer, and I mean everything, I have been also saying for sometime now. His insisting he thought SG could be a trans person and his almost phobia of that makes me think of our Asian John Doe. Thank You for seeing things for what they are.

 

[Hotpotato]

What's bs about the police not showing up or whatever is that GC and another neighbor also called and I'm pretty sure they knew where they were.

 

[DaisyChains]

I think that it makes sense at some point Hackett came into contact with her, and his call to her mom was a preemptive attempt at covering his tracks in case his DNA was on her or hers was found inside his house. Then, later when the dust had settled and neither had happened he claimed to have not made those calls. Why else would he interject himself into this case. I mean until that call he likely would have remained a non factor.

hadn't he been visited and given SG's mother's number from SG's boyfriend or something when they went out looking for her the next day or so? Wasn't that what prompted the call from Hackett to Mari (RIP)? Does anyone remember this?

I don't think Hackett contacted Mari for any other reason than he wanted her to know he was looking for SG JMO. Who knows what was said between Hackett and Mari. I'm not going to judge him for something someone (even if it was Mari God rest her soul) claims he said. Mari was going through much trauma and I worry it colored some things. Hackett could have said something along the lines of "I know your daughter is missing and I'm not sure if she needs help after this at all or is a wayward girl, but I would be willing to help her out and watch after her if she is found until the police or you arrive to pick her up. I can be her safe place. I won't call police if you don't want me to. I can keep her here until you can get her." but maybe it was misconstrued. We just don't know.

wouldn't it stink to have this happen in your neighborhood and then as a sleuth you become invested in the victim.... and call their family to let them know know you will look for her and make sure she is safe if you find her... only for the family to then suspect you? Not that you didn't put your foot in it by making the first contact, but would you feel bad for being a POI after just trying to reach out to the mother of a prostitute who went missing in your own neighborhood?

 

[DaisyChains]

What's bs about the police not showing up or whatever is that GC and another neighbor also called and I'm pretty sure they knew where they were.

yeah in that case I just don't think it was a high priority call. that's probably why they did not rush there when GC called. I think someone else calling police after GC probably got their attention to finally go out and check the situation. Seems like many neighbors heard her freaking out down the streets that night

 

[Hotpotato]

hadn't he been visited and given SG's mother's number from SG's boyfriend or something when they went out looking for her the next day or so? Wasn't that what prompted the call from Hackett to Mari (RIP)? Does anyone remember this?

I don't think Hackett contacted Mari for any other reason than he wanted her to know he was looking for SG JMO. Who knows what was said between Hackett and Mari. I'm not going to judge him for something someone (even if it was Mari God rest her soul) claims he said. Mari was going through much trauma and I worry it colored some things. Hackett could have said something along the lines of "I know your daughter is missing and I'm not sure if she needs help after this at all or is a wayward girl, but I would be willing to help her out and watch after her if she is found until the police or you arrive to pick her up. I can be her safe place." but maybe it was misconstrued. We just don't know.

I don't disagree that things might not have gone down exactly as they were retold. The Hackett thing is just weird. This guy is not stupid. He's a freaking doctor. So why would he just insert himself for attention? It doesn't make sense. I feel really strongly he was either giving himself a reason for his or her DNA being present on one another or he was maybe calling to try and find out if she was alive. I mean he asked "is your daughter there?" Maybe he was just trying to fish for information. I guess you can't discount anything but I really feel like the main reason someone would throw their name into a case of a girl who was claiming people were trying to kill her and now she's missing is to give a justification why things might be tied back to him.

 

[DaisyChains]

I don't disagree that things might not have gone down exactly as they were retold. The Hackett thing is just weird. This guy is not stupid. He's a freaking doctor. So why would he just insert himself for attention? It doesn't make sense. I feel really strongly he was either giving himself a reason for his or her DNA being present on one another or he was maybe calling to try and find out if she was alive. I mean he asked "is your daughter there?" Maybe he was just trying to fish for information. I guess you can't discount anything but I really feel like the main reason someone would throw their name into a case of a girl who was claiming people were trying to kill her and now she's missing is to give a justification why things might be tied back to him.

He could have just called as a concerned citizen who heard her screaming down the street that night. That would make me contact the mother to let her know my concern. Not an intention to insert himself, but instead to provide support. However you could be completely right and Mari could have recounted things exactly as she experienced them. I'm never one to completely discount a mother's cry or plea for justice, but I also do want the right kind of justice. I just don't see this old amputee doctor who lives with his wife (and has adult children visiting often) being able to hold these girls captive in/near his home without anyone knowing. I also don't think he supplied drugs for "parties". From rumors it sounds like the people at the parties liked doing cocaine - that's not exactly something you just haphazardly write up a script for. JMO Hackett is just a patsy. The actual killer IMO might actually be a middle aged divorced male who has plenty of time at a summer home without the kids (if he even has them) to kill. Who does this sound a lot alike.

 

[crimehunter58]

Has anyone else asked how the police got inside of the Oak Beach Park in the first place? MP & SG needed a code to get inside the gated community. It doesn't sound like a place where the police have to go very often, so is it assumed they knew the code and were able to enter the code and drive on through?

If they didn't know the code, let's just say that by the time the police contacted dispatch to get GC's # (if they didn't have it on hand) then police contacted GC to get the code....(whether he gave it to them over the phone or came to the gate to enter it) ...that could easily explain one of the delays in the police's arrival after GC's call to 911.

Also, no doubt I'm sure they proceeded with caution. If they knew SG was running through the neighbor frantically, maybe they took time to shine a spotlight towards the beach areas, in between houses and/or moved at a slow roll as not to drive through the park and accidentally hit her if she ran out in front of the car, in addition to being on the lookout for her.

Just because Google Maps says it's "X" amount of miles from the nearest station doesn't mean that it takes exactly "X" amount of time to arrive based on speed limits and that's even IF there was a cruiser at the station.

You have to account time for possible delays, etc.. From the moment the call comes through is when the clock begins ticking. It's going to take a few minutes for GC to give the info to the 911 operator, they enter the info into their system...then they contact the appropriate emergency services, they take down the info from 911, they dispatch...It was 5 something in the morning, so there was probably limited LE on duty and that's if they could respond at that exact moment...who knows they could've been on the other side of Suffolk County patrolling or even finishing up another call.

We can't just assume they jumped in their car, leaving the station at exact second the call of the 911... hit the lights and drove 100 miles an hour to get there without any delays of some sort.

We just can't say EXACTLY how long it SHOULD have or have not taken them. IMO, they arrived in a reasonable amount of time based on what information they had and potential delays.

Did GC even tell 911 that she was claiming someone was trying to "kill her?" If that wasn't communicated in HIS call, she wasn't hurt or dead, so they might have just assumed she was drunk or high and didn't take the call as "high priority."

Yes, knowing what we know now, it should've been high priority, but question is... did the police KNOW all of the details at that time? The answer...is simply.. NO. It's a shame, but that's the reality of the situation given at that particular time of GC's 911 call.



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[fred&edna]

He could have just called as a concerned citizen who heard her screaming down the street that night. That would make me contact the mother to let her know my concern. Not an intention to insert himself, but instead to provide support. However you could be completely right and Mari could have recounted things exactly as she experienced them. I'm never one to completely discount a mother's cry or plea for justice, but I also do want the right kind of justice. I just don't see this old amputee doctor who lives with his wife (and has adult children visiting often) being able to hold these girls captive in/near his home without anyone knowing. I also don't think he supplied drugs for "parties". From rumors it sounds like the people at the parties liked doing cocaine - that's not exactly something you just haphazardly write up a script for. JMO Hackett is just a patsy. The actual killer IMO might actually be a middle aged divorced male who has plenty of time at a summer home without the kids (if he even has them) to kill. Who does this sound a lot alike.

I don't think Dr Hackett is LISK. But, if he made the calls to Shannan's family "as a concerned citizen" then why did he (initially) lie about making them?? He was no longer concerned??

Then, you add in other neighbors who went above and beyond a smear campaign against him.

Bizarre.

 

[Robert Anderson]

I don't think Dr Hackett is LISK. But, if he made the calls to Shannan's family "as a concerned citizen" then why did he (initially) lie about making them?? He was no longer concerned??

Diaz said he urged Dr. Hapless to call Mari. My guess is after things went pear shaped he panicked and denied the calls.

All of Hackett's "stories" seem to have a common thread: they make him seem heroic. He likes to "help". Whether this is actually helpful is another matter of course.

 

[Robert Anderson]

Has anyone else asked how the police got inside of the Oak Beach Park in the first place? MP & SG needed a code to get inside the gated community. It doesn't sound like a place where the police have to go very often, so is it assumed they knew the code and were able to enter the code and drive on through?

Didn't Gus say he went to the gate to wait for the police?

 

[Hotpotato]

Diaz said he urged Dr. Hapless to call Mari. My guess is after things went pear shaped he panicked and denied the calls.

All of Hackett's "stories" seem to have a common thread: they make him seem heroic. He likes to "help". Whether this is actually helpful is another matter of course.

I've never seen where Diaz urged Hackett to call. Can you direct me to this info? And yes GC met police at gate. Which also makes you wonder how he didn't hear/see anything

 

[WINDSOR]

thanks for the clear up! i just wanted to point toward how the call was not dispatched correctly and resulted in a delay in police response (as well as SG not knowing exactly where she was). I meant to just write NY. Sorry I live in the desert in California. POINT BEING (b/c many have asked why here) the SCPD did not show up on time b/c SG had not much of a clue where she was and the call didn't go straight to Suffolk dispatch.

Dottie and Daisy,, Let us not obscure the fact that even when 911 center got accurate info from GC the response was slow. Secondly, I am sure SG's original call was not the first that had confusing information, and in 23 minutes SG was on the line the 911 should have been able to send a car to the general area. 911 call centers are trained to deal with these sorts of challenges. Imagine you are a tourist on the beach near Oak Beach, and you call 911 from your cell because your partner is having a heart attack. You do not know exactly where you are, are they not going to find you?

 

[WINDSOR]

We know what was said between PCH and Mari, and it was not that he was looking for her.

 

[Dottie72]

What's bs about the police not showing up or whatever is that GC and another neighbor also called and I'm pretty sure they knew where they were.

To everyone:
Scpd did respond and it was unfounded. They looked, they didn't find her. I was in EMS and many times we've had calls, we get there and the caller is gone, and sometimes we had multiple calls from the same location and they still ended up unfounded. We couldn't go door to door all night asking "hey did you call 911?" It was on to the next 911 call. What happened to SG is beyond unfortunate and extremely tragic and maybe we will never know because she's the only one who could tell us. As for law enforcement, my ENTIRE family is LE and EMS, and I have personally experienced a recent murder in my family. LE does not disclose information during an active investigation no matter how long that investigation is going on for. It will jeapordize the investigation and taint a jury. We are family of a murder victim, and even we don't know everything, not because its a grand conspiracy or a matter of ego its because it makes their job even harder and maybe impossible to put away the bad guy. What you all don't know, or maybe some of you do and I'm beyond sorry if you do, you have no idea what its like to do their job to see horrible senseless death every day, to be a good guy and be trashed left and right for the actions of a few rotten apples. And especially when that rotten apple is your boss. What would you do? This isn't the movies, or TV. This is real life with real people, real victims, and families who are destroyed. I will tell you, and this is fact, how we were treated by LE, SCPD for the matter and it was with professionalism and compassion. No stone was left unturned and they protected us from the vultures of the media, who by the way reported almost everything falsely. Trust me its a circus that you want no part of. And anyone who inserts themselves into that circus you have to ask why, because if you're the one who was standing in a puddle of a muder victims blood (like me ) the only people you want to talk to are LE and your therapist. Believe me I want justice. For EVERY murder victim because maybe it will bring some sort of peace for everyone involved. But you will never know all the facts, purposely. Its not your job. Its their job. They're the ones trained to do it. Call me biased but I live with both sides, victim and LE try to imagine what that's like. I joined websleuths because of the good. I saw people trying to bring closure to the unidentified. Now all I see is cop bashing and rediculous conjecture. Maybe you could all revisit why exactly you're here. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes even the ones with flat feet if you know what I'm saying. Solving murder isnt their hobby its their profession and for some of us its the thing that changed our lives forever.

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[WINDSOR]

Has anyone else asked how the police got inside of the Oak Beach Park in the first place? MP & SG needed a code to get inside the gated community. It doesn't sound like a place where the police have to go very often, so is it assumed they knew the code and were able to enter the code and drive on through?

If they didn't know the code, let's just say that by the time the police contacted dispatch to get GC's # (if they didn't have it on hand) then police contacted GC to get the code....(whether he gave it to them over the phone or came to the gate to enter it) ...that could easily explain one of the delays in the police's arrival after GC's call to 911.

Also, no doubt I'm sure they proceeded with caution. If they knew SG was running through the neighbor frantically, maybe they took time to shine a spotlight towards the beach areas, in between houses and/or moved at a slow roll as not to drive through the park and accidentally hit her if she ran out in front of the car, in addition to being on the lookout for her.

Just because Google Maps says it's "X" amount of miles from the nearest station doesn't mean that it takes exactly "X" amount of time to arrive based on speed limits and that's even IF there was a cruiser at the station.

You have to account time for possible delays, etc.. From the moment the call comes through is when the clock begins ticking. It's going to take a few minutes for GC to give the info to the 911 operator, they enter the info into their system...then they contact the appropriate emergency services, they take down the info from 911, they dispatch...It was 5 something in the morning, so there was probably limited LE on duty and that's if they could respond at that exact moment...who knows they could've been on the other side of Suffolk County patrolling or even finishing up another call.

We can't just assume they jumped in their car, leaving the station at exact second the call of the 911... hit the lights and drove 100 miles an hour to get there without any delays of some sort.

We just can't say EXACTLY how long it SHOULD have or have not taken them. IMO, they arrived in a reasonable amount of time based on what information they had and potential delays.

Did GC even tell 911 that she was claiming someone was trying to "kill her?" If that wasn't communicated in HIS call, she wasn't hurt or dead, so they might have just assumed she was drunk or high and didn't take the call as "high priority."

Yes, knowing what we know now, it should've been high priority, but question is... did the police KNOW all of the details at that time? The answer...is simply.. NO. It's a shame, but that's the reality of the situation given at that particular time of GC's 911 call.



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GC was waiting at the entrance to Oak Beach to let the Police in.

If you assume the cruiser was not at the station it was likely closer to Oak Beach, shorter travel times.

The Google travel times are based on normal daytime traffic at legal speeds, at 5:00am there would be less and police could travel faster, remember it was a 911 call where SG stated someone was trying to kill hear. If that does not justify full sirens and lights I do not know what does.

If you believe the response times in this case are reasonable and valid, just remember that a woman died. Without a much clearer and truthful explanation by the 911 responders I have questions.

 

[WINDSOR]

To everyone:
Scpd did respond and it was unfounded. They looked, they didn't find her. I was in EMS and many times we've had calls, we get there and the caller is gone, and sometimes we had multiple calls from the same location and they still ended up unfounded. We couldn't go door to door all night asking "hey did you call 911?" It was on to the next 911 call. What happened to SG is beyond unfortunate and extremely tragic and maybe we will never know because she's the only one who could tell us. As for law enforcement, my ENTIRE family is LE and EMS, and I have personally experienced a recent murder in my family. LE does not disclose information during an active investigation no matter how long that investigation is going on for. It will jeapordize the investigation and taint a jury. We are family of a murder victim, and even we don't know everything, not because its a grand conspiracy or a matter of ego its because it makes their job even harder and maybe impossible to put away the bad guy. What you all don't know, or maybe some of you do and I'm beyond sorry if you do, you have no idea what its like to do their job to see horrible senseless death every day, to be a good guy and be trashed left and right for the actions of a few rotten apples. And especially when that rotten apple is your boss. What would you do? This isn't the movies, or TV. This is real life with real people, real victims, and families who are destroyed. I will tell you, and this is fact, how we were treated by LE, SCPD for the matter and it was with professionalism and compassion. No stone was left unturned and they protected us from the vultures of the media, who by the way reported almost everything falsely. Trust me its a circus that you want no part of. And anyone who inserts themselves into that circus you have to ask why, because if you're the one who was standing in a puddle of a muder victims blood (like me ) the only people you want to talk to are LE and your therapist. Believe me I want justice. For EVERY murder victim because maybe it will bring some sort of peace for everyone involved. But you will never know all the facts, purposely. Its not your job. Its their job. They're the ones trained to do it. Call me biased but I live with both sides, victim and LE try to imagine what that's like. I joined websleuths because of the good. I saw people trying to bring closure to the unidentified. Now all I see is cop bashing and rediculous conjecture. Maybe you could all revisit why exactly you're here. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes even the ones with flat feet if you know what I'm saying. Solving murder isnt their hobby its their profession and for some of us its the thing that changed our lives forever.

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I can only speak for myself, and I am not 'cop-bashing'. I think asking questions about response times is a reasonable question. I understand the frustration with false alarms and the like for EMS people. You risk your life to get to a call and their is nothing, absolutely a waste of time and effort. Yes EMS and LE are tough jobs and I do not believe anybody on this site does not recognize that fact.

I am also sorry for your family's loss, and I am glad that you are getting the support from LE that you need. My experience with LE also has been very positive.