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Going with my theory that the AC4 and Gilgo4 are victims of the same SK, I can't help but think that the #4 has meaning to the SK. In the Bible the #4 signifies "God setting things in order"

Revelations 7:1 "and after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

AC4 had their heads facing east towards Atlantic City, where they had all worked as prostitutes. Their shoes had been removed, which also holds a clue to the SK's profile.

The Gilgo4 were lined up very much like the AC4, their feet were facing east.

Two sets of victims in each disposed in a group of 4, all missing between 2006 & 2010

After reading through many of the threads I wonder if the burlap sacks have been used as a symbol as well.
Humility (of self-censure), mourning, submissiveness, and the like are graphically represented in this early wearing of "sackcloth and ashes." It said clearly, "I am nothing--my former robes of purple (Isa. 37:1) were but tents of pride-- I need help." Little wonder such conduct was associated with repentance-- and Christ could say of Tyre and Sidon, "they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." (Matt. 11:21) Abject humility, while not "repentance," is certainly an essential ingredient. We wonder if the whole of "sackcloth and ashes" should not also be included?

It is not the symbol itself to which we refer. We suspect many would wear the sack, who had not yet put on the things for which it stood. But when we see the casual way in which repentance is treated-- a sort of academic pause between faith and baptism-- there is little resemblance to the spirit of "sackcloth and ashes." The substance should far surpass the shadow-- must do so if it is real. Do you see such "fruits meet for repentance" today? (Note Matt. 4:8)
 
Justifying the deaths of those poor women with that scripture is scary. The SK may believe he is doing "what needs to and should be done." The Bible has been quoted by lots of SK's.
 
I've looked all over, and I can't find the alleged quote about business in AC. I must have confused it with HA having to go back to either FL or NY for work. Sorry!

However, when I went back through those articles, something did catch my attention. He talks about all the places they stayed during Kim's later years. These places are mostly very low-class, flea bag motels. If you're trying to get your wife to stop using drugs, WHY would you continue to patronize the types of places that are frequented by drug users? Please don't think I'm being snobby here, but wouldn't you try to find a nicer place to stay if your goals are to help your loved one get over her drug habit and to get your children back? This raises a red flag for me. HA paints his life with Kim, pre-addiction, as being a suburban middle-class idyllic setting. Suburban middle-class people don't hang out in flea bag motels. I think he also had issues with drugs and there is definitely something that he's not being honest about. He's not a suspect and I don't think he is involved, but IMO, I think he knew more about her lifestyle and associates in AC than he has shared in his interviews. There are too many inconsistencies and his behavior doesn't match up with the picture he's tried to paint.
 
I've looked all over, and I can't find the alleged quote about business in AC. I must have confused it with HA having to go back to either FL or NY for work. Sorry!

However, when I went back through those articles, something did catch my attention. He talks about all the places they stayed during Kim's later years. These places are mostly very low-class, flea bag motels. If you're trying to get your wife to stop using drugs, WHY would you continue to patronize the types of places that are frequented by drug users? Please don't think I'm being snobby here, but wouldn't you try to find a nicer place to stay if your goals are to help your loved one get over her drug habit and to get your children back? This raises a red flag for me. HA paints his life with Kim, pre-addiction, as being a suburban middle-class idyllic setting. Suburban middle-class people don't hang out in flea bag motels. I think he also had issues with drugs and there is definitely something that he's not being honest about. He's not a suspect and I don't think he is involved, but IMO, I think he knew more about her lifestyle and associates in AC than he has shared in his interviews. There are too many inconsistencies and his behavior doesn't match up with the picture he's tried to paint.

The first thing they should have done is find a permanent home and have a stable income. Not run off to another state and stay at a flea-bag drug infested motel acting like a couple of immature teenagers. I don't buy HA's story, whichever one he tells. IMHO I don't think either one of them could have provided a stable home for their children. Actions do speak louder then words.
 
IMHO...my theory. I believe the Manorville murders are gang related. The SK was at one time a member of that gang. The SK decided to leave his victims in the same place as the gang's victims. He thought they would never be discovered or he thought they would be blamed on the gang if discovered. I believe the AC4 are also victims of the same SK. The AC4 were maybe his first victims, but most probably he has murdered others prior to 2006 and did this in another state. I think he travels but is very familiar with Long Island, the Brooklyn NY area and Atlantic City. I believe he has lived at one time within 30 miles of these three locations: Brooklyn, NY, Gilgo Beach, NY and Atlantic City. He probably resides elsewhere now. I think he is white, in his 40's, is an organized missionary killer and the number "4" is significant. In Biblical terms the #4 "means putting things in order." The SK is also a closet homosexual. IMHO
 
BKS, in re: GB4 & AC, I agree with you on this part:
"I think he travels but is very familiar with Long Island, the Brooklyn NY area and Atlantic City. I believe he has lived at one time within 30 miles of these three locations: Brooklyn, NY, Gilgo Beach, NY and Atlantic City. He probably resides elsewhere now. I think he is white, in his 40's, is an organized missionary killer and the number "4" is significant. In Biblical terms the #4 "means putting things in order." The SK is also a closet homosexual. IMHO"
 
Phew. I read everything written on this case at WS, but forgive me if I haven't quite gotten fluent in the case just yet. As for me, I grew up in the Bronx, spent many many summer days at the beach in LI and my parents have lived in the North Fork for many years now, so I am somewhat familiar with Manorville and the Pine Barrens.

I have no actual profile/theory but a couple of things are starting to gel with me. I find it most useful to spend most attention to the GB4 for now, since those are the only victims that I am reasonably certain are related. Not saying none of the others are, just that I am less certain.

One pattern that immediately jumps out at me is that there was a shift in pattern after the first 2, which also corresponds with the time that SG went missing.

The first two, MBB and MB were taken from or last seen in the city. (2007 and 2009) Presumably both were transported to LI by the killer. Both victims had cell phones that were retained by the killer and used for awhile after. I think both victims' cell phones also had evidence that the phone was in the vicinity of Gilgo, or Massapequa (which would be the cell tower used from Gilgo I have read).

Then in spring of 2010, SG goes missing fröm OB.

The next two victims (ALC and MW) are last seen in LI. Neither has a cell phone upon her person.

I think that something did change between the first two, and the last two GB4 cases. One theory is that the killer was a commuter to the city until 2010 and switched to finding victims locally for convenience after he no longer had to travel there for work. There are numerous other ways to explain the differences. But I am leaning heavily towards saying that the brouhaha in OB the night SG went missing may have directly influenced the pattern of the killer, making him change a few details. I don't think personally that SG was killed by the same killer as the GB4, but I am leaning towards thinking the GB4 killer was aware of what took place on OB that night.


And to this day, no one has mentioned a reason that makes any sense at all of why CPH inserted himself into the case by calling SG's family. And presumably to say something along the lines of "she was here, and she is alive but not any longer here" (and a possible unspoken meaning of "there is no sense in coming here to look for her"). But this is just too bizarre to contemplate, so I tend to discount it...

First BBM. Unemployment. I would say that would be your reason for not traveling if you were the commuter. By December 2010 we hit the worse unemployment rate. And the NY area got hit hard for 2009 and 2010.

Second BBM. I am a pair of flip flops on SG connection. No people connected here either just thoughts.
1. Intended to be connected but night went wrong, not SK.
2. Connected. Not with others on purpose, night went wrong.
3. Not connected. Just Guiness Book Worthy Coincindence.

Third BBM.
I mentioned CPH the other day. When the story plays out with all those we know are involved through out that night CPH is never a player. Not until the phone call....I don't discount it. I think there is more to it. There is how many people that live in that neighborhood that have not jumped into the news. He has and from all accounts so far had nothing to do with the night until the call.

The way you laid out the timeline is intersting though.

7/9-2007 MBB NYC (1 body there)
7/19-2009 MB NYC (2 years later a 2nd body. I'm no expert but that's a while no?)
5/1-2010 SG Oak Beach (Cover my porblems here above)
6/6-2010 MW Haupauge (If SG was connected or SK was connected to that night, was a month later because SK was pissed why so quick here)
9/2-2010 AC North Babylon (Again 3 quick months later)

We are a year and a half now from last girl missing...

Now we learn that Blue and Malia were searching the community right around the time MW was place and AC soon went missing???

Then the legs in Davis Park Fire Island bother me....

I guess for me coming to a theory or profile is still very clouded
 
The longer these cases go unsolved the likelier it is that GB4 is one person disposing of the bodies but not necessarily the actual killer. When people first started mentioning OC, it just seemed unlikely...mostly because of the number "4," the "wrapped in burlap," ages of victims, CL and BP ads, and the NYC connections with everyone but MW...but now it feels like this is a very broad case of workers, who for whatever reason, are seen as disposable. Either because they are encroaching on someone's territory, not performing for the important guest in the manner that the VIP expects or they are seen as trying to go independent without the permission of whomever they used to work for.

With the exception of the GB4, if there even is a serial killer, it just isn't as obvious as it once seemed.
 
And to this day, no one has mentioned a reason that makes any sense at all of why CPH inserted himself into the case by calling SG's family. And presumably to say something along the lines of "she was here, and she is alive but not any longer here" (and a possible unspoken meaning of "there is no sense in coming here to look for her"). But this is just too bizarre to contemplate, so I tend to discount it...

One possible explanation is that CPH seems to insert himself into dramatic events as a matter of routine. TWA 800, the water tower rescue, helping people by the side of the road, and so on. Plus, reportedly patrolling the Oak Beach Association in a car with flashing lights. He may be genuinely heroic or he may be an attention-seeker; it's very hard to tell from where I sit, and it seems there is evidence pointing in both directions.

Of course, this behavior also fits the profile of a certain kind of killer.

MOO.
 
One possible explanation is that CPH seems to insert himself into dramatic events as a matter of routine. TWA 800, the water tower rescue, helping people by the side of the road, and so on. Plus, reportedly patrolling the Oak Beach Association in a car with flashing lights. He may be genuinely heroic or he may be an attention-seeker; it's very hard to tell from where I sit, and it seems there is evidence pointing in both directions.

Of course, this behavior also fits the profile of a certain kind of killer.

MOO.

cph is an attention seeker and a grandoius story teller,i know quite of few nurses who worked wth him in good samaritan hospital in west islip,right off the pkwy
 
Originally Posted by elmomom
One possible explanation is that CPH seems to insert himself into dramatic events as a matter of routine. TWA 800, the water tower rescue, helping people by the side of the road, and so on. Plus, reportedly patrolling the Oak Beach Association in a car with flashing lights. He may be genuinely heroic or he may be an attention-seeker; it's very hard to tell from where I sit, and it seems there is evidence pointing in both directions.

Of course, this behavior also fits the profile of a certain kind of killer.
MOO.

cph is an attention seeker and a grandoius story teller,i know quite of few nurses who worked wth him in good samaritan hospital in west islip,right off the pkwy

Hey are you guys talking about Richard Angelo who was a nurse from Good Samaritan Hospital?

http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/richardangelo.htm

Richard Angelo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Richard Angelo was 26 years old when he went to work at Good Samaritan Hospital on Long Island in New York. He had a background of doing good things for people as a former Eagle Scout and volunteer fireman. He also had an out-of-control desire to be recognized as a hero."
 
Hey are you guys talking about Richard Angelo who was a nurse from Good Samaritan Hospital?

http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/richardangelo.htm

Richard Angelo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Richard Angelo was 26 years old when he went to work at Good Samaritan Hospital on Long Island in New York. He had a background of doing good things for people as a former Eagle Scout and volunteer fireman. He also had an out-of-control desire to be recognized as a hero."

richard angelo killed my friends mother in good sam 25 yrs ago.hes a kook and a hero wanna be.just like someone else we know.but my friends who worked with cph when he was there can tell quite a bit of stories about him.
 
Patient Reviews
May 11, 2010
BAD !!!

he talked like he was either drunk or high

View rating details

Read more: http://www.vitals.com/doctor/profile/1497934905/reviews/1497934905##ixzz1q8uLnc42


hmm only ten days after Shannan went missing and the review says the EXACT same thing as Johnny Terry said about the phone calls. Its like almost too obvious and therefore I'm sometimes revert to thinking someone is trying to frame doc....?
 
Sherlock,
The timing of that vitals post is extremely concerning to me. How many other comments were posted about the Dr. on that site? One or Two? Not many. Was he even seeing patients during that time period? Can that be documented? I would love to know whether or not LE was able to identify the user connected to the IP address who posted that comment. And if he or she is untraceable, to me that would say a lot more.

With that said, I am still on the fence about the Dr. I have a friend who is well trained in reading body language, who from the very beginning pegged him as lying there on his doorstep. She could tell by the way he was standing, how his arms were positioned, his eye movements among other things that he appeared grandiose and manipulative to her. And that was in the very beginning, before we were aware of more details. I admit, he did appear a little creepy to me too, but that vitals post appeared to me that someone was trying to set him up. Either that or he was seeing patients (either on the record or not) and at that time he was off the wagon. And if he is responsible in some way for Shannan's death, being off the wagon at the time would explain why he'd be reckless to make a call to her mother using his own phone and then denying the content (if that is what happened.) Either way, that vitals comment should not be ignored. In my very humble opinion.
 
Maybe it is a former patient or family member of a former patient who is trying to frame the doc for the GB4 killings and SG. It is far fetched, out of the movies like, but if he is calculated and patient enough that could be possible.
 
Patient Reviews
May 11, 2010
BAD !!!

he talked like he was either drunk or high

View rating details

Read more: http://www.vitals.com/doctor/profile/1497934905/reviews/1497934905##ixzz1q8uLnc42


hmm only ten days after Shannan went missing and the review says the EXACT same thing as Johnny Terry said about the phone calls. Its like almost too obvious and therefore I'm sometimes revert to thinking someone is trying to frame doc....?

Except John Terry had no connection to SG, Oak Beach, or CPH in May of 2010.
John Terry did have a connection to the LISK prior to May 2010.
So Sherlock, if you are observing an actual correlation, than it is because LISK = CPH.

quod erat demonstrandum
 
Truth, I took nugtzer's post as questioning whether JT is involved with the
Lisk killings and Shannan's death and using the doctor as a patsy.

Am I even close nugzter?
 
Truth, I took nugtzer's post as questioning whether JT is involved with the
Lisk killings and Shannan's death and using the doctor as a patsy.

Am I even close nugzter?

John Terry would need a time machine to do that. John Terry made the statements about the drunk calls prior to May 2010. John Terry didn't know SG, CPH, or anything about Oak Beach prior to Dec. 2010. Also, we don't know who the Vitals poster is, the poster is likely someone unrelated to the events of May 1, assuming the poster isn't a conspirator that is.

I refer you back to my previous post, it is either a meaningless coincidence you are observing, or the correlation is a result of CPH being the LISK.
 
Except John Terry had no connection to SG, Oak Beach, or CPH in May of 2010.
John Terry did have a connection to the LISK prior to May 2010.
So Sherlock, if you are observing an actual correlation, than it is because LISK = CPH.

quod erat demonstrandum

Truth can you find Johnny Terry and show him your "private eye" so he can tell us where the SKs house is? :cheer:
 
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