Premeditation

[Insomnia Momma]

The strips are all about the same length. They are torn/cut perfectly straight across. KC wasn't so emotional that she accidentally wadded up any duct tape ends.

I don't think it looks like enraged tearing off of strips of tape from sudden anger or an attack of spite. I think it looks like a planned execution.

jmo

I completely agree

 

[Tracey276]

I'm exhausted just from viewing the actual (bleeeeech) duct tape that covered the face of an innocent, young, cheated Caylee. Then I almost threw up in my mouth again after looking at the photos of Casey's back (bleeeeech). I can't imagine an entire jury would not be bawling with these 3 strips of duct tape ALONE. Anyone with a heart would be heartbroken (except the A's, that is).

Three strips. Yep, three. Super-duper sticky duct tape. Three times the premeditation. Let's fry Casey three times - - - for Caylee!

I totally agree with your post. I, too cried when I saw the photos of the duct tape pieces. What we have to remember is that, this will be much, much worse for a juror because they are going to actually have to view the pictures of exactly where the duct tape was placed.
They will see the actual photos of how it looked across the skull when it was found. I cannot even fathom, how one would get through that. I know they will NEVER, EVER be able to erase that image from their minds once they have seen it. I will most definitely be praying for the prosecutors, judge and the jurors through this trial.

 

[snow_walker]

I don't know that it matters, but actually the strips were different lengths.. from a little over 7 inches to over 9 inches.. but that detail is insignificant, compared to the fact that all 3 pieces were placed over a little childs face.. truly a terrible, horrible thing for anyone to do. Can anyone imagine their own 'mummy' doing such a thing to them?

 

[wonders]

I totally agree with your post. I, too cried when I saw the photos of the duct tape pieces. What we have to remember is that, this will be much, much worse for a juror because they are going to actually have to view the pictures of exactly where the duct tape was placed.
They will see the actual photos of how it looked across the skull when it was found. I cannot even fathom, how one would get through that. I know they will NEVER, EVER be able to erase that image from their minds once they have seen it. I will most definitely be praying for the prosecutors, judge and the jurors through this trial.

BBM
I thought about that briefly today and just couldn't let my mind go there.
It is so heart breaking for anyone to have to see those images.

I do wonder if the Anthony's have seen them. If not maybe they should see them to shock them into telling the truth and everything they know.

God rest Caylee's little soul.

 

[Wudge]

In my mind we could forget about everything else and focus on the 3 six inch pieces of tape on Caylee's face/head.

Put on one piece. Hummm, not enough. Should I really do this? Premeditation?
Put on second piece. What the heck. I need a Bella Vita. Premeditation.
Add third piece. Better put another one on for good measure. Premeditation.

PREMEDITATION = DEATH PENALTY


This will not get away with what she has done. No way. No how. I don't care what kind of spin the defense or the Anthony's put on it.

There's no evidence that the duct tape was the cause of death or is related to the cause of death. Moreover, three pieces of duct tape is not suggestive of planning and deliberation. Rather, the three pieces of duct tape work against the notion that Caylee died from a premeditated murder, for they suggest a haphazard application.

No one, anywhere, has ever been able to cite clear and unyielding proof that supports the State's 1st degree murder charge. As such, Casey should be found "not guilty".

 

[JBean]

Okay we have had a lot of threads on premeditation and some very in depth discussion on this topic.But, I am not going to merge this so that we can hopefully have a fresh start, because the past ones have gotten pretty heated.
Please post respectfully and if you can't, then don't post in this thread.

This is a general announcement and where this post lands on the thread has no bearing on anything.

 

[Tracey276]

There's no evidence that the duct tape was the cause of death or is related to the cause of death. Moreover, three pieces of duct tape is not suggestive of planning and deliberation. Rather, the three pieces of duct tape work against the notion that Caylee died from a premeditated murder, for they suggest a haphazard application.

No one, anywhere, has ever been able to cite clear and unyielding proof that supports the State's 1st degree murder charge. As such, Casey should be found "not guilty".

With all due respect, I cannot see how you say this tape works "AGAINST" premeditation. This tape in no way shows that it was done haphazardly. They are not torn and matted at the ends as if done quickly or in a struggle. There is no evidence at this point of any finger prints. This alone, to me, suggests this killer was careful and had planned this murder.

There is no way on God's green earth KC will ever be found not guilty.

 

[snow_walker]

I dunno how premeditated premeditated has to be.. the sure knowledge that a piece of duct tape is going to cut off a childs breath .. applying the tape anyway..and not removing it when they stuggled and fought for air..

 

[cecybeans]

With all due respect, I cannot see how you say this tape works "AGAINST" premeditation. This tape in no way shows that it was done haphazardly. They are not torn and matted at the ends as if done quickly or in a struggle. There is no evidence at this point of any finger prints. This alone, to me, suggests this killer was careful and had planned this murder.

There is no way on God's green earth KC will ever be found not guilty.

ITA - we do not know how they were placed - they may not have been placed haphazardly, but specifically to overlap to cover both mouth and nose. Also, if one were taping a live, struggling child, it might appear haphazard.

I think the premeditation part is because of the time it would take to deliberately continue to cut and place duct tape on a child's mouth, whether alive and sober or sleeping and druggedl either way that is ante-mortem. There is nothing accidental about it. If the coffin fly evidence indicates the presence of a live body (as well as the indications we already have of a dead body) in the trunk, then it would seem logical to assume it was the same body and that the trunk is the scene of the crime.

 

[Wudge]

With all due respect, I cannot see how you say this tape works "AGAINST" premeditation. This tape in no way shows that it was done haphazardly. They are not torn and matted at the ends as if done quickly or in a struggle. There is no evidence at this point of any finger prints. This alone, to me, suggests this killer was careful and had planned this murder.

There is no way on God's green earth KC will ever be found not guilty.

Applying three pieces of tape instead instead of one very well thought out piece of tape (which would have been wrapped around the entire head) strongly suggests a serendipitous application.

Do remember too that Caylee's hands were not tied or taped together behind her back. Nor were her hands tied or taped to her waist. The fact is that her hands were not tied or taped together in any way. In a murder where tape was going to be used to sufficate someone, a planned approach would be to ensure the victim could not use their hands to pull the tape away.

 

[Jolynna]

On June 16 at 2:52 p.m., KC told Jesse she was going to have to find another place to live because her mother wanted her out of the house.

And then told her, and I don’t know the exact time, told her well my parents are not uhm, my mom’s not moving out anymore. Uhm, they are getting a divorce and mom wants me out of the house....snipped...

I believe that conversation about mom never not moving out anymore and her whole falling out with mom over this was when you get to it the sixteen minute phone, phone conversation I had with Casey uhm, on the 16th.

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Grund Jesse01-0717.pdf (Page 13)

​

Caylee must have seemed like more and more of a burden as the clock ticked closer to Cindy coming home on June 16.

Tony wasn't offering to bring Caylee into his bedroom the way Ric had so KC was going to be stuck at home with Caylee and pretty soon...Cindy. Cindy had just made it clear that she wanted KC out. That would have stung. KC probably hated her mother more than anything while she was reeling from that rejection.

I don't think coming up with motive for premeditated murder is going to be difficult.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

ITA - we do not know how they were placed - they may not have been placed haphazardly, but specifically to overlap to cover both mouth and nose. Also, if one were taping a live, struggling child, it might appear haphazard.

I think the premeditation part is because of the time it would take to deliberately continue to cut and place duct tape on a child's mouth, whether alive and sober or sleeping and druggedl either way that is ante-mortem. There is nothing accidental about it. If the coffin fly evidence indicates the presence of a live body (as well as the indications we already have of a dead body) in the trunk, then it would seem logical to assume it was the same body and that the trunk is the scene of the crime.

I wonder if they checked kc's dresser for duct tape residue . . . . Maybe sticking the pieces to the edges as she cut them . . . .

I was just thinking about this -- maybe this had been disproved earlier, but I remember right after her body was found, NG and maybe others talked about how the tape was wrapped all the way around Caylee's head and LE had to cut it to get it off. Anyone else remember this?

 

[wonders]

The strips are all about the same length. They are torn/cut perfectly straight across. KC wasn't so emotional that she accidentally wadded up any duct tape ends.

I don't think it looks like enraged tearing off of strips of tape from sudden anger or an attack of spite. I think it looks like a planned execution.

jmo

Jolynna thank you for your thoughtful opinions. I find myself agreeing with you now in a way because of the heart stickers KC placed on the duct tape as well. At the same time though we don't know how much KC tried to use before KC got the result KC wanted. KWIM too?

 

[Brini]

Yep, you hit the nail on the head! JoseBGood does seem to step before the media just prior to a doc dump, huh? This time, guess he figured he would call in a favor from Geraldo...

Kent! Would you pleeez stop calling JB that?

I get this awful piccie of JB decked out as Chuck Berry, jumping around with his GIT-ar, in my head and it won't go away! ;-)

 

[YellowSubmarine]

KC probably hated her mother more than anything while she was reeling from that rejection.

I don't think coming up with motive for premeditated murder is going to be difficult.

I have thought all along that kc hated her mom more than she loved Caylee and she knew her mom loved Caylee more than her, so she killed Caylee to get back at CA. You know that whole "spiteful b...." thing

 

[ThoughtElf]

Applying three pieces of tape instead instead of one very well thought out piece of tape (which would have been wrapped around the entire head) strongly suggests a serendipitous application.

Do remember too that Caylee's hands were not tied or taped together behind her back. Nor were her hands tied or taped to her waist. The fact is that her hands were not tied or taped together in any way. In a murder where tape was going to be used to sufficate someone, a planned approach would be to ensure the victim could not use their hands to pull the tape away.

I have never seen confirmation in any of the docs that ascertains that Caylee was not bound? I am not saying she was, simply that I do not believe it has been stated as fact that Caylee' wasn't bound?

If I am wrong and missed that, I hope someone can provide me with a link so that I can reconsider thoughts.

I'd also like to add that I do not believe there can be anything at all serendipitous about duct tape being applied to a body - ante or post mortem. I can only assume that while well educated, you don't really understand what serendipitous means? And I don't mean that at all rudely. I simply think that word cannot be forced to fit in the context in which it was used.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I dunno how premeditated premeditated has to be.. the sure knowledge that a piece of duct tape is going to cut off a childs breath .. applying the tape anyway..and not removing it when they stuggled and fought for air..

My understanding (from NG show, mind you!) is that premeditation can result from a period as short as seconds. It was stated on the show by some lawyer that premeditation is as soon as the perp makes the decision to injure til death (or words to that effect)

 

[Kentjbkent]

Kent! Would you pleeez stop calling JB that?

I get this awful piccie of JB decked out as Chuck Berry, jumping around with his GIT-ar, in my head and it won't go away! ;-)

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

(sorry...ever since I saw his email addy, I just can't think of him any other way...won't even BEGIN to describe what plays out in my head!!!)

 

[Brini]

There's no evidence that the duct tape was the cause of death or is related to the cause of death. Moreover, three pieces of duct tape is not suggestive of planning and deliberation. Rather, the three pieces of duct tape work against the notion that Caylee died from a premeditated murder, for they suggest a haphazard application.

No one, anywhere, has ever been able to cite clear and unyielding proof that supports the State's 1st degree murder charge. As such, Casey should be found "not guilty".

Got news! She WILL be found guilty. The question is LWOP or DP?

With respect:
Yes, duct tape IS indicative of pre-med. And, as you may remember from an earlier thread, a Florida law stipulates that there is no other reason to duct tape anyone's face, except to kill. And, that law has been challenged in appeal, and has held up.

The jury, BTW, will NOT receive the information that she sealed off all of the helpless baby's airways kindly.

 

[Brini]

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

(sorry...ever since I saw his email addy, I just can't think of him any other way...won't even BEGIN to describe what plays out in my head!!!)

"Someday you'll be the leader of a rockin' band,
Go......go, Jose, go! Go......go, Jose, go!"