Rebecca and Max Timeline

[time]

Not saying this should be added to the timeline Lash posted, but one of Zinn's posts reminded me of the timing on all this:

Sept 23, 2011
Family attorney releases 200 pages of Zahau's phone records

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15538406/family-releases-200-pages-of-zahau-phone-records


Oct 25, 2011
'Dr. Phil' Show to air results of second autopsy on Rebecca Zahau

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15869134/dr-phil-show-to-air-rebecca-zahaus-autopsy


Nov 2, 2011
Max Shacknai’s aunt at mansion hours before Zahau’s death

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15941030/max-shacknais-aunt-at-mansion-hours-before-zahaus-death


Nov 7, 2011
Exclusive: Max Shacknai’s aunt talks about Coronado mansion deaths

www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

 

[bourne]

Why would Nina borrow Jonah's car to drive home at 9 pm at night if Dina were staying at the hospital? Dina wouldn't need her car. Plus, it appears there were a few people staying in her house that could have either picked up Nina or Dina if they needed.

What strikes me as strange (for one thing) is why was Jonah left without a car?

That to me is a strong indicator that Dina's car was not at the hospital. Now where exactly was Dina's car? Did Dina drive to Spreckels mansion on Tuesday?

Are there cameras in the hospital parking lots? If there are and Dina had parked there on Mon, investigators should be able to see when Dina drove off on Tues and when she returned -- if she parked back in the hospital parking lots.

And I think InParadise mentioned that there are traffic cameras on the bridge from the hospital to the Spreckels mansion. Investigators can check those cameras to see whether Dina drove to Spreckels on Tues.

 

[Inparadise]

That to me is a strong indicator that Dina's car was not at the hospital. Now where exactly was Dina's car? Did Dina drive to Spreckels mansion on Tuesday?

Are there cameras in the hospital parking lots? If there are and Dina had parked there on Mon, investigators should be able to see when Dina drove off on Tues and when she returned -- if she parked back in the hospital parking lots.

And I think InParadise mentioned that there are traffic cameras on the bridge from the hospital to the Spreckels mansion. Investigators can check those cameras to see whether Dina drove to Spreckels on Tues.

There are cameras all over the grounds at RCH as well as when you enter onto the freeway from there.......there was never any mention that any of these other cameras, including the one at the bridge toll plaza, were ever checked. Also, I find it odd that LE never once brought up the fact that Jonah owned 2 boats, and they were both docked about a 10 minute walk from Spreckels..........

 

[bourne]

There are cameras all over the grounds at RCH as well as when you enter onto the freeway from there.......there was never any mention that any of these other cameras, including the one at the bridge toll plaza, were ever checked. Also, I find it odd that LE never once brought up the fact that Jonah owned 2 boats, and they were both docked about a 10 minute walk from Spreckels..........

Do you think that Dina took the boat to Spreckels?

Because according to Ann Rule, Jonah was definitively alibied at the hospital and RMH during the time Becky was murdered.

 

[Inparadise]

Do you think that Dina took the boat to Spreckels?

Because according to Ann Rule, Jonah was definitively alibied at the hospital and RMH during the time Becky was murdered.

No, I do not. If you will recall, back in the summer of 2009, the house at 1124 G Ave was on the market, and scheduled for auction becuase Jonah didn't want Dina on the island......Jonah's yacht was registered to him, and him alone. I doubt that he would allow Dina the use of it/access to it. And I have never seen her on it in the past several years. IMO, if anyone used either of the boats that night, it was Jonah and Adam..........

 

[Quester]

Aren't there two access points to Coronado: the bridge and southern access?

What's the drive time from Rady to Coronado by way of the southern access? TIA

 

[time]

Do you think that Dina took the boat to Spreckels?

Because according to Ann Rule, Jonah was definitively alibied at the hospital and RMH during the time Becky was murdered.

And/or got the rope from the boat.

 

[bourne]

No, I do not. If you will recall, back in the summer of 2009, the house at 1124 G Ave was on the market, and scheduled for auction becuase Jonah didn't want Dina on the island......Jonah's yacht was registered to him, and him alone. I doubt that he would allow Dina the use of it/access to it. And I have never seen her on it in the past several years. IMO, if anyone used either of the boats that night, it was Jonah and Adam..........

According to Ann Rule on Coronadopatch.com, she definitively ruled out Jonah because she says "we know where he was at all times and I think he cared about Becky.”

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/...ebecca-zahau-coronado-spreckels-fatal-friends

So this Shacknai yacht user could only be Adam is what you're saying. I personally think if anyone could have gained access to the yacht, it'd be Dina. She seems conniving and manipulative enough to have stolen the dock passcode/yacht keys from Jonah. But honestly I doubt the yacht was used in the commission of Becky's murder.

It's too complicated...unless someone snuck onto the yacht to steal the tow ropes to bind Becky and make the noose. I think it's more likely the tow ropes were from that murderer's own garage or even from the Spreckels mansion.

 

[Inparadise]

Aren't there two access points to Coronado: the bridge and southern access?

What's the drive time from Rady to Coronado by way of the southern access? TIA

Much longer........about 35 to 40 minutes...........lots of stop lights in IB.

 

[Inparadise]

According to Ann Rule on Coronadopatch.com, she definitively ruled out Jonah because she says "we know where he was at all times and I think he cared about Becky.”

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/...ebecca-zahau-coronado-spreckels-fatal-friends

So this Shacknai yacht user could only be Adam is what you're saying. I personally think if anyone could have gained access to the yacht, it'd be Dina. She seems conniving and manipulative enough to have stolen the dock passcode/yacht keys from Jonah. But honestly I doubt the yacht was used in the commission of Becky's murder.

It's too complicated...unless someone snuck onto the yacht to steal the tow ropes to bind Becky and make the noose. I think it's more likely the tow ropes were from that murderer's own garage or even from the Spreckels mansion.

The Glorietta Bay Marina has a gate that requires a key card and an access code to gain entry to the dock.........There is a camera at the gate....

 

[Tink56]

Adam arrived on a Continental flight @ 4:15pm from Memphis, via Houston. They went immediately to RCH, and at that time of day, the traffic would have been heavy, taking 40 minutes or so........163 Northbound (at least to I8) is bumper to bumper.

The time would be about right...but the logical route would have been 5 north to 8 east to 805 north or 163 north....IMO. One wouldn't access Children's nearly as well from the 163...much faster to use 805.

However, I do agree with the timing. De-plane and exit airport, assuming no checked bags, would be 10-15 minutes, the drive would take at least 30 minutes, although 8 East would be hectic. The north bound routes "in the valley" are not as congested in the afternoon rushes.

 

[Inparadise]

The time would be about right...but the logical route would have been 5 north to 8 east to 805 north or 163 north....IMO. One wouldn't access Children's nearly as well from the 163...much faster to use 805.

However, I do agree with the timing. De-plane and exit airport, assuming no checked bags, would be 10-15 minutes, the drive would take at least 30 minutes, although 8 East would be hectic. The north bound routes "in the valley" are not as congested in the afternoon rushes.

The most direct route from the airport is I5 South to the 163 North, which is very clogged at that time of day, at least until you reach the I8..........to take the I5 North to the I8 East is even worse, particularly if there is an accident, which there frequently is. And let's keep in mind that Rebecca was not familiar with RCH, so she would likely take the easiest route, which would be I5 South to 163 North......IMO.

 

[Carioca]

Didn't any of these blasted cars have GPS? Wouldn't that have been the easiest and most fool proof way to determine which car went where and when?

 

[Betty P]

Didn't any of these blasted cars have GPS? Wouldn't that have been the easiest and most fool proof way to determine which car went where and when?

Again, I'm reminded of the modern day heirs of the Anheuser Busch family who had a knack for killing friends or being with them when they die. Its one of the best examples of the modern day use of legal and PR professionals to quickly take control of criminal investigations and shut them down as quickly as possible.


When something bad happens, you first call the lawyers, preferably before you call the police. Time and distance from the crime are your friends, they helps in many ways

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/busch_gal_min_mystery_JExEJOWVFVQ7s5Ppj54LSM

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-7191084.html

Then the attorneys talk with LE, prosecutors, ME's, etc. offering the official story and help any way they can with the investigation. The ultimate goal is to curb the amount of investigation being done.

Try to prevent the gathering of as much evidence as possible.

If a lot of evidence is gathered, you don't test it.

Protect the accessories or witnesses or they will turn on you

Then you make as much of it as possible disappear.

Not gathering evidence like GPS tracking of autos or fingerprints or DNA evidence or drug testing or LDT's is the hallmark of professional damage control. You don't have to explain evidence that hasn't been gathered.

In RZ's case, the ultimate solution was to declare it a suicide, which neatly swept everything under the rug and allowed much of the evidence to be destroyed. But even more important, much of it was never gathered and now can't be retrieved.

MOO

 

[Zinn]

Again, I'm reminded of the modern day heirs of the Anheuser Busch family who had a knack for killing friends or being with them when they die. Its one of the best examples of the modern day use of legal and PR professionals to quickly take control of criminal investigations and shut them down as quickly as possible.


When something bad happens, you first call the lawyers, preferably before you call the police. Time and distance from the crime are your friends, they helps in many ways

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/busch_gal_min_mystery_JExEJOWVFVQ7s5Ppj54LSM

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-7191084.html

Then the attorneys talk with LE, prosecutors, ME's, etc. offering the official story and help any way they can with the investigation. The ultimate goal is to curb the amount of investigation being done.

Try to prevent the gathering of as much evidence as possible.

If a lot of evidence is gathered, you don't test it.

Protect the accessories or witnesses or they will turn on you

Then you make as much of it as possible disappear.

Not gathering evidence like GPS tracking of autos or fingerprints or DNA evidence or drug testing or LDT's is the hallmark of professional damage control. You don't have to explain evidence that hasn't been gathered.

In RZ's case, the ultimate solution was to declare it a suicide, which neatly swept everything under the rug and allowed much of the evidence to be destroyed. But even more important, much of it was never gathered and now can't be retrieved.

MOO

Great information, Betty P.

This reminds me of how Rebecca's phone was supposedly not checked by LE until one day after deleted messages would typically have been purged from servers.

 

[bourne]

Thanks, Betty P! From your citations, it does look like Jonah hampered the investigation into Becky's murder with his use of PR and lawyers. If he had truly wanted to help find Becky's murderers, he would have simply opened the Spreckels mansion to Anne Bremner's team to investigate and do a re-creation of the murder scene.

Instead Jonah, knowing full well that LE was antagonistic towards AB's team, had his own lawyers stipulate near impossible-to-meet conditions involving the need for LE to be physically present at the time of AB's teams' access into the Spreckels. These conditions Jonah surely had known and expected LE would deny AB's team.

Plus the fact that Jonah seemed to accept without question his brother Adam's statement that Rebecca had "hung herself" -- if in fact, Jonah never replied to Adam's text message to ask for confirmation and details of her death. But instead Jonah immediately called Dina to repeat the news of Becky's self-hanging to Dina. We know Jonah never went directly to the Spreckels mansion to see with his own eyes his gf Becky's body.

Despite Ann Rule's belief to the contrary, Jonah's conspicuous absence of doubts and curiosity as to how Becky died makes me wonder whether he was involved in Becky's murder. Moreover, the fact that he did not make mention to LE of his ex-wife Dina's hatred and vindictiveness towards Becky, but instead suggested Becky's ex as a POI to LE, adds to my suspicions about what he knew of Becky's murder.

But did Jonah plan the murder of Becky? I don't think so. Did he give the "ok" to the murderer(s) to go ahead with their murder plan? Maybe. Certainly appears as if Jonah were aware because it appeared he unwaveringly accepted Becky's suicide.

Perhaps Jonah found out about Becky's murder after the fact? Perhaps the murderer(s) called him up to inform him of Becky's cold dead body, and Jonah decided to help cover up the murder by giving instructions to others to stage the suicide scene, and call the police at 6:30am? Honestly I don't think so. The suicide staging was too messy. For a businessman like Jonah who likely wanted to "divorce" himself from the murder mess -- had he been aware of it --just as he had divorced the mess with Dina, I doubt he would partake in the murder of Becky or create such an over-the-top, ridiculously flamboyant suicide staging. He'd try to avoid the negative publicity at all costs.

So maybe Jonah found out early Wed morning that his beloved Becky died. Perhaps he did return Adam's call to confirm that Becky was dead? (We need Jonah's phone records). Then when he heard about the big mess in his courtyard, he decided to protect his brother Adam and get Pfingst involved. Perhaps everything else including the logistical blockade of AB's team to gain access to his mansion were then instigated by Jonah's lawyers and PR. Jonah just didn't want to get involved in the mess, so he let his lawyers and PR handle everything that subsequently transpired. I think the Spreckels mansion renovations however were Jonah's idea because he wanted to quickly sell the mansion off. He was on "business-mode" with the Spreckels. It's hard for me to believe Jonah intends, as some say, to move back into the Spreckels and continue life there as if Max's and Becky's deaths which happened there don't matter to him.

I believe the murderers wanted a "big splatter" with Becky's dead cold hanging body for the world to gawk at on Jonah's property to humiliate not only Becky, but also Jonah. I believe the murderers wanted to get revenge not only on Becky but also to boast about the murder as an in-your-face to Jonah. That'd make the painted words on the door make sense, "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER". These words were directed at Jonah, in hateful, vengeful sarcasm.

 

[bourne]

The Glorietta Bay Marina has a gate that requires a key card and an access code to gain entry to the dock.........There is a camera at the gate....

So the matter of who gained access to the yacht that Tuesday would be easily resolved if investigators would only look at the camera footage. Hmm, why were those videos not examined?

 

[Inparadise]

So the matter of who gained access to the yacht that Tuesday would be easily resolved if investigators would only look at the camera footage. Hmm, why were those videos not examined?

I doubt that the films to the Glorietta Bay Marina are kept for very long..........but I could be wrong. A phone call (619-435-5203) could verify.

 

[K_Z]

I believe the murderers wanted a "big splatter" with Becky's dead cold hanging body for the world to gawk at on Jonah's property to humiliate not only Becky, but also Jonah. I believe the murderers wanted to get revenge not only on Becky but also to boast about the murder as an in-your-face to Jonah. That'd make the painted words on the door make sense, "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER". These words were directed at Jonah, in hateful, vengeful sarcasm.

Snipped, colorized, and BBM.

YES. I am in total agreement. Big splatter, and maximum humiliation for both Rebecca and Jonah, IMO.

As in, "she got what she deserved." "He" got what "he" deserved, too, by her gruesome, publicly displayed murder. Definitely sarcasm in the words on the door, imo.

Only one or two people I can think of that would want to strike out at, and murderously humiliate BOTH Jonah, and Rebecca.

And it isn't Jonah, HL, NN, or XZ. That eliminates 4 of the "6" people Ann Rule mentioned as suspects, imo.

 

[Carioca]

Snipped, colorized, and BBM.

YES. I am in total agreement. Big splatter, and maximum humiliation for both Rebecca and Jonah, IMO.

As in, "she got what she deserved." "He" got what "he" deserved, too, by her gruesome, publicly displayed murder. Definitely sarcasm in the words on the door, imo.

Only one or two people I can think of that would want to strike out at, and murderously humiliate BOTH Jonah, and Rebecca.

And it isn't Jonah, HL, NN, or XZ. That eliminates 4 of the "6" people Ann Rule mentioned as suspects, imo.

ITA, KZ. And at times of extreme stress and heightened emotions gone wild, rationality goes out the window and mistakes are made.

A person's physical strength under extreme stress can be amazing. My uncle was under his truck fixing something. The jack broke, the truck fell flat on his chest, pinning him. In a Herculean moment, he was able to lift that truck up off his body and save himself. He suffered total amnesia, never ever recovering his memory of that day nor his life previous to the incident, not even recognizing his wife and children.