Sentencing & Alternatives

[GrainneDhu]

Until I read this thread, I assumed I was probably very much in the minority for being anti-death penalty.

For me it is partially a religious/philosophical issue (I was raised Buddhist) and partially a desire to hold myself to a higher standard of behaviour than that of a murderer.

My Buddhist upbringing makes me feel that I would be wrong to even call a convicted murderer a monster because that is dehumanizing them... just as they dehumanized their victim(s).

That upbringing also leads me to believe in the possibility of rehabilitation or redemption (or whatever you want to call it). It may be rare but I believe that it does happen and that it is the right thing to give every person the chance to attain it if they so choose, no matter what their history.

 

[citigirl]

Until I read this thread, I assumed I was probably very much in the minority for being anti-death penalty.

For me it is partially a religious/philosophical issue (I was raised Buddhist) and partially a desire to hold myself to a higher standard of behaviour than that of a murderer.

My Buddhist upbringing makes me feel that I would be wrong to even call a convicted murderer a monster because that is dehumanizing them... just as they dehumanized their victim(s).

That upbringing also leads me to believe in the possibility of rehabilitation or redemption (or whatever you want to call it). It may be rare but I believe that it does happen and that it is the right thing to give every person the chance to attain it if they so choose, no matter what their history.

You are a better person than I...I think the murder of an innocent child is not a human act...I am an empathetic person, but I could not empathize with a child-killer...

But I respect your beliefs...your religion is one that resonates with me more than some of the others....

 

[citigirl]

bbm

Crimes like what? We don't know what the crime is in this case, yet...

Responding to the first post--the premise is capital pre-meditated murder...sorry I upset so many of you...

 

[Kimster]

bbm

Crimes like what? We don't know what the crime is in this case, yet...

I read it as the crime of a child being missing since June, no matter what the reason.

 

[nurseratchett]

I so value each and every one of your opinions. Personally, I don't care who did it, (though I freely admit I suspect TH)...I think if this were pre meditated, yes, the DP is appropriate. I would want the same for WHOEVER is responsible.

GrainneDhu, I do so strive to reach self actualization someday and wish I could already "feel" your Bhuddist belief enough to say I wouldn't want venegance...not there yet.

I also agree with many who feel life in prison is currently not the worst thing that could happen. Appeals, potential for release someday, further education, all at our expense...something wrong there. Life in Prison should be hard. No books, no TV, no socializing. No family visits. No commisary. Life threatening medical and dental care only.
A hard warden I would be...

For the family, I can not fathom never having remains, never being 100% certain that my child, brother, cousin was "really" gone. That is the only circumstance that I can agree to do away with the DP.

OTOH...if this were really an "accident" of some sort, I still feel LIP appropriate. The hell that we have all gone thru in this deserves that.

Thank you all so much for being willing to share your beliefs and opinions, even if you know others won't agree. I do think it's an importatnt part of our "make up", and certainly hope no one here feels offended or like they are unable to share how they feel.

 

[Kimster]

Just wondering from other discussions over the last few months how many people would approve of the death sentence if someone is found to have committed a capital pre meditated murder versus life in prison, versus a reduced sentence if the perpetrator leads us to Kyron.

In answer to the OP, I think that decision should be made by Kyron's family.

 

[gwenabob]

Totally OT, but I just have to say, you look really good in pink, Kimster!

 

[cypress]

I so value each and every one of your opinions. Personally, I don't care who did it, (though I freely admit I suspect TH)...I think if this were pre meditated, yes, the DP is appropriate. I would want the same for WHOEVER is responsible.

GrainneDhu, I do so strive to reach self actualization someday and wish I could already "feel" your Bhuddist belief enough to say I wouldn't want venegance...not there yet.

I also agree with many who feel life in prison is currently not the worst thing that could happen. Appeals, potential for release someday, further education, all at our expense...something wrong there. Life in Prison should be hard. No books, no TV, no socializing. No family visits. No commisary. Life threatening medical and dental care only.
A hard warden I would be...

For the family, I can not fathom never having remains, never being 100% certain that my child, brother, cousin was "really" gone. That is the only circumstance that I can agree to do away with the DP.

OTOH...if this were really an "accident" of some sort, I still feel LIP appropriate. The hell that we have all gone thru in this deserves that.

Thank you all so much for being willing to share your beliefs and opinions, even if you know others won't agree. I do think it's an importatnt part of our "make up", and certainly hope no one here feels offended or like they are unable to share how they feel.

BBM

The personal anguish of individuals not even remotely connected to the crime/accident should not affect the judicial process, IMHO.

 

[Kimster]

Totally OT, but I just have to say, you look really good in pink, Kimster!

Thanks! Don't forget - it's Breast Cancer Awareness Month!

 

[bessie]

I won't go into all of the reasons that I oppose the death penalty, but I do. GrainneDhu summed up a few of them (though I'm not Buddhist); the others belong in a different forum.

If the crime was proven to be premeditated, cold blooded murder, I would disagree with a sentence reduction in exchange for Kyron's remains. But that's easy for me to say because we're not talking about my child. Which raises an interesting question. In a case like this, should the parents wishes have any influence on the sentence?

 

[nurseratchett]

BBM

The personal anguish of individuals not even remotely connected to the crime/accident should not affect the judicial process, IMHO.

I don't mean due to my "personal anguish". What I meant, and didn't explain well enough, is that if this were accidental, there should have never been more than a brief second before the truth was known.

By dragging this out, and choosing to try and "get away with" something, I feel any remorse for an accident has been long forgotten. In other words, the fact that the truth has been with held is in and of itself, a criminal act.

Couple that with any sort of "accident", and it seems apparent that the accident causer (making up my own words now) did not truly feel remorse for their actions. Without remorse, and compassion enough to ease others suffering, I feel life in prison is appropriate.

All my own perfect world scenario of course. Just my opinion.

And, yes, I do believe the feelings of the family of a victim should carry weight when it comes to sentencing.

 

[pufnstuf]

BBM

The personal anguish of individuals not even remotely connected to the crime/accident should not affect the judicial process, IMHO.

I disagree. Society created laws for this very reason. Crime doesn't just affect the family of the victim, but society at large.

That's why it's the STATE that prosecutes murder cases (and other crimes), not just individual vs individual.

All the way back to Hammurabi's Code, civilizations have recognized that crime affects society, thus the need for laws mandating repercussions for breaking those laws.

 

[JBean]

well it is no secret I am anti-death penalty and always have been.

 

[purple turtle]

I do not believe in an eye for an eye but I do believe in protecting everyone from those who have broken society's trust especially when their crimes are either egregious or their likelihood to re-offend is high.

 

[DreamyEye]

I am pro death penalty, having followed true crimes in the news all my adult life, which has shown me that for whatever reason, many killers, sadists, and rapists are broken to the point where they can't be fixed. I believe there are a certain # of these criminals who are just going to go on tortuning and killing others until they are forcibly stopped. I know it is called a death penalty, which implies the intent of punishing the wrongdoer--but to me, with some sociopathic criminals, it is more like sterilizing an operating room. We don't give "second chances" to germs that have a proven record of being deadly. We kill them before they have a chance to claim more victims.

In this case, a primary suspect has supposedly contemplated trying to pull off MFH. If this were proven--and the same person is proven to have harmed Kyron, then I think society is within bounds in questioning whether the perp can ever be fixed (redeemed, saved, corrected, cured).

As far as trading off the death penalty in exchange for info about Kyron or his remains (that is horrible to write), if there are others involved, barter with one or more of those people for a reduction of sentence in exchange for information. I don't think the "mastermind" or primary perp has the right to bargain in this case.

Let's keep in mind here that whoever did this likely took Kyron from a crowded school event where there were so many other children innocently going about their business. Whoever did it is a dastardly, seriously broken person. This is not somone who's like the rest of us ... in my opinion. MOO.

 

[Billylee]

It appears that not only have some of us convicted Terri lately, but are now imposing sentence.

I know that the OP said whomever did this, but we don't even at this point know what "this" is. And if someone does know what "this" is, please come forward, I think LE would like to have a word with you.

Me, personally, I'm still trying to find Kyron, and I fail to see how this thread will do that. I know, I know, then don't respond, right? Well, wrong, just wrong. I'm seeing logic run a muck here lately and feel a real concern to say hey, wait a minute, let's back up a bit. Why talk about sentencing in Kyron's case, when we have literally no idea what any charges may even be in this case. I just want to say I think we all need to slow down, and yes, even Kaine said, just be patient and I have to say, that makes very good sense.

To quote Doug King:

Learn to pause... or nothing worthwhile will catch up to you.

JMHO and all.

 

[eyes4crime]

I am not an advocate of the death penalty and have been against it since my young years. I see it as a lavish pre-meditated murder on the part of our government that does absolutely nothing to deter crime.

Whoever did this to Kyron needs to spend the rest of his/her life in prison, with no chance of parole. Donate themselves to research so we can figure why people murder. moo mho and all that stuff

 

[Kimster]

Obviously SOMEONE is responsible for Kyron going missing. Let's remember that the OP did not suggest this was Terri.

Keep it on the "someone" please so this doesn't turn into another "TH - guilty or innocent" thread. We have plenty of those!

Continue on.

 

[mmmagique]

It appears that not only have some of us convicted Terri lately, but are now imposing sentence.

I know that the OP said whomever did this, but we don't even at this point know what "this" is. And if someone does know what "this" is, please come forward, I think LE would like to have a word with you.

Me, personally, I'm still trying to find Kyron, and I fail to see how this thread will do that. I know, I know, then don't respond, right? Well, wrong, just wrong. I'm seeing logic run a muck here lately and feel a real concern to say hey, wait a minute, let's back up a bit. Why talk about sentencing in Kyron's case, when we have literally no idea what any charges may even be in this case. I just want to say I think we all need to slow down, and yes, even Kaine said, just be patient and I have to say, that makes very good sense.

To quote Doug King:

Learn to pause... or nothing worthwhile will catch up to you.

JMHO and all.

I have some very good ideas about what charges may ultimately come down.
1. kidnapping
2. custodial interference
3. murder

and possibly some other ones I'd rather not speculate about until we have to.

I feel we do know enough about what "this" is to make a very educated guess. Someone has taken this child and done something with him. Most probably it's not a trip to Disney.

I get no pleasure trying to search my heart for what the correct punishment would be to someone who could "disappear" a child, and watch a family suffer his loss. But it's something that feels important to me.

Would that we would never have to ask ourselves these types of questions.

 

[DreamyEye]

Obviously SOMEONE is responsible for Kyron going missing. Let's remember that the OP did not suggest this was Terri.

Keep it on the "someone" please so this doesn't turn into another "TH - guilty or innocent" thread. We have plenty of those!

Continue on.

I did not mean to suggest in my earlier comment that I'm convinced TH is guilty. My rear is half hanging over the the "Th guilty" side of the fence, and half over the "an opportunistic sex predator took him" side. If TH is ever charged with MFH or with disappearing or harming Kryon, her fate from there will be decided in court on the basis of evidence, and the likes of me will have nothing to say about it.

What I wanted to express in my post is that whatever happened to Kyron, it was likely at the hands of a broken sociopath who can't be fixed, and while I don't like the death penalty, it just seems to me that society needs to enforce it in some cases, in order to protect the innocent. I'm familiar with the argument that the death penalty is not a deterrent. Statistically it may not make any difference--but I am sure that Ted Bundy has not killed anyone since he was executed. And given the fact that he once escaped prison and killed more victims while on the loose, I don't think anything short of his own death would have ever stopped him. :sick: