Sentencing & Alternatives

[Helenstreet]

I never really believed in the Death Penalty until my cousin and her 3 children went missing in Newport, Oregon right before Christmas 2001. My maternal cousin, MaryJane Longo and her 3 children were murdered by her husband, Christian Longo, and he eventually received the Death Penalty. During the trial, I really became supportive of the the DP for Longo, especially after watching him in his own defense try to blame my wonderful cousin for doing something to the older 2 children--4 1/2 year old Zachary and 3 year old Sadie. The monster is so intelligent, if he ever was in the general prison population he would be an escape risk. That was part of the reason for him receiving the DP. So, depending on the circumstances of what happened to Kyron, I would be supportive of the DP. But, if Kyron is unable to be found, I would be supportive of reducing the sentence to Life in Prison without Parole if the perpetrator reveals where Kyron is located.

 

[Kimster]

I never really believed in the Death Penalty until my cousin and her 3 children went missing in Newport, Oregon right before Christmas 2001. My maternal cousin, MaryJane Longo and her 3 children were murdered by her husband, Christian Longo, and he eventually received the Death Penalty. During the trial, I really became supportive of the the DP for Longo, especially after watching him in his own defense try to blame my wonderful cousin for doing something to the older 2 children--4 1/2 year old Zachary and 3 year old Sadie. The monster is so intelligent, if he ever was in the general prison population he would be an escape risk. That was part of the reason for him receiving the DP. So, depending on the circumstances of what happened to Kyron, I would be supportive of the DP. But, if Kyron is unable to be found, I would be supportive of reducing the sentence to Life in Prison without Parole if the perpetrator reveals where Kyron is located.

{{{Helenstreet}}} I remember this like it was yesterday! How I cried for your cousin and her children! Indeed, he deserves the DP!!! :furious:

 

[gwenabob]

Helenstreet, I am a local and also remember that sociopath well. Your cousin and her little children--it was all so senseless. Just because he felt they were too much of a burden. The whole thing was so chilling. I am so very sorry for you and your family.

 

[citigirl]

Helenstreet's story is so sad and terrifying. This is what I mean about--where the rubber hits the road. I do not know if I would be able to hold onto my feelings against the death penalty if I were close to the victim.

That's why I do not want to appear smug about my beliefs. They have been tested somewhat, but not to that extent....and recently...but I was not close to the victims, my husband was and he was terribly affected. As the perpetrator sits in jail, a monster for sure, it is hard for me to hold onto my belief....

 

[nurseratchett]

I never really believed in the Death Penalty until my cousin and her 3 children went missing in Newport, Oregon right before Christmas 2001. My maternal cousin, MaryJane Longo and her 3 children were murdered by her husband, Christian Longo, and he eventually received the Death Penalty. During the trial, I really became supportive of the the DP for Longo, especially after watching him in his own defense try to blame my wonderful cousin for doing something to the older 2 children--4 1/2 year old Zachary and 3 year old Sadie. The monster is so intelligent, if he ever was in the general prison population he would be an escape risk. That was part of the reason for him receiving the DP. So, depending on the circumstances of what happened to Kyron, I would be supportive of the DP. But, if Kyron is unable to be found, I would be supportive of reducing the sentence to Life in Prison without Parole if the perpetrator reveals where Kyron is located.

Helenstreet....I remember your family very well, and that case. I am very sorry for what they, and your family all went thru.
And glad he got the DP.

 

[wenwe4]

Helenstreet,
Welcome to WS! Your input is extremely valuable here as many of us have pondered how it would feel to be a family member to a victim of crime. Your perspective is greatly appreciated and I for one would like to applaud you for your candid and reflective response. I also remember your cousin's case and I would like to say I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't feel as though I can really vote yet, not knowing what the crime is. But as far as getting information to find Kyron, I would not be against someone getting a reduced sentence for providing that information, if that person was not directly responsible for any violent act or the planning of such.

 

[JBean]

Just wondering from other discussions over the last few months how many people would approve of the death sentence if someone is found to have committed a capital pre meditated murder versus life in prison, versus a reduced sentence if the perpetrator leads us to Kyron.

Just a reminder of the topic.

Assumption: Someone has murdered Kyron

Question: What kind of punishment are you comfortable with in general? what about in exchange for information?

 

[cluciano63]

If we are assuming murder, I don't like the idea of bargaining with the actual killer, but would like to let the parents have input into whether they would go for life in prision, vs. the harsher (DP) sentence if they were able to bury Kyron.

But I am not comfortable with convictions in cases without a body and also no crime scene or physical evidence of violence. So having the killer leading LE to the body would make me feel better about the conviction.

 

[NancyA]

Anti-death penalty here, mostly for the same reason as others have mentioned. Killing someone because they killed someone, to me, puts us on the same level as the killers and also there's that karma thing. Mostly though it's because I know I would dread LWP more than death. Faced with a life with no possibility of ever being able to choose for myself how I want to spend my day: just simple things like sitting here on a chilly Fall morning, sipping coffee and cosy in my robe browsing the web or reading the newspaper and later if it's not a work day being able to take off for the mountains or the ocean to blow the cobwebs off if I feel like it, or just go grocery shopping and decide what I want for dinner, go to bed when I want, see and touch my loved ones when I want......it would be torture for me, I'd rather die. Maybe a lot of these criminals wouldn't rather die but I'm convinced that on some visceral level ALL of them want out.

Many of you may not be familiar with the Moors Murders case in the UK back in the 60s. I was only a small child at the time it happened but growing up it was kept firmly in the public eye because they were such horrendous crimes they set the benchmark by which all other such crimes were judged. The death penalty in the UK had only recently been abolished when the perps, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were convicted so they were condemned to life in prison. Life in prison in the UK however didn’t/doesn't necessarily mean life, mostly it means maybe 20 years or 30 years max. In the case of this pair, however, it was stipulated that they should NEVER be free.

Ian Brady, it turned out, was criminally insane, so he was confined in a maximum security mental hospital. Myra Hindley had no such 'insanity' defense and she was sent to a maximum security women's prison. What always struck me about this pair when the case came up in the news down the years was that he wanted to die and she wanted OUT. She fought and fought the judicial system to get OUT. Appeal after appeal down the years claiming that she was unfairly treated differently to other lifers who could hope for eventual release while she couldn't. She tried everything, 'found' religion, offered to help search for the bodies - but she waited so long some of the families of the victims had already died never having reached closure and others she juts couldn't remember where they were - she got advocates to say she was a victim of Brady herself ie he had forced her to participate....All to no avail and it was of SUPREME satisfaction to me (maybe karma will forgive me that small indulgence to my vengeful side) that when she eventually died some 30 years after her conviction, she died still a prisoner.

Sorry to be so longwinded, the topic struck a chord.

 

[NancyA]

Helenstreet's story is so sad and terrifying. This is what I mean about--where the rubber hits the road. I do not know if I would be able to hold onto my feelings against the death penalty if I were close to the victim.

That's why I do not want to appear smug about my beliefs. They have been tested somewhat, but not to that extent....and recently...but I was not close to the victims, my husband was and he was terribly affected. As the perpetrator sits in jail, a monster for sure, it is hard for me to hold onto my belief....

ITA. Discussing this on an academic level is always easy but as to how I would feel were one of my loved ones be murdered....I honestly don't know.

 

[DreamyEye]

Anti-death penalty here, mostly for the same reason as others have mentioned. Killing someone because they killed someone, to me, puts us on the same level as the killers and also there's that karma thing. Mostly though it's because I know I would dread LWP more than death. Faced with a life with no possibility of ever being able to choose for myself how I want to spend my day: just simple things like sitting here on a chilly Fall morning, sipping coffee and cosy in my robe browsing the web or reading the newspaper and later if it's not a work day being able to take off for the mountains or the ocean to blow the cobwebs off if I feel like it, or just go grocery shopping and decide what I want for dinner, go to bed when I want, see and touch my loved ones when I want......it would be torture for me, I'd rather die. Maybe a lot of these criminals wouldn't rather die but I'm convinced that on some visceral level ALL of them want out.

Respectfully snipped

Even though you and I are on different sides of the DP fence, NancyA, I appreciate the argument you make, and I thank you for this thoughtful post.

One reason I don't like "no possibility of parole" is that it can become impossible to enforce. Because in the case of a young perp, it means trying to impose rules on future generates of parole boards. It's like a politician lobbying for a new tax and saying "this will only apply to the people in the highest brackets." Well, once the tax has become law, there's no telling what other politicians will do with it ten or twenty years from now. Charles Manson comes up for parole every few years. I don't care what his original sentence was ... there is nothing stopping some future parole board from setting him free. All we can do is hope it never happens--but we all know that in some cases, people who were presumed put away for life have been released a few years after sentencing.

At heart, I am with you in hating the death penalty. I just don't see any way around it sometimes.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I am for the DP and voted as such.

 

[BeanE]

Just wondering from other discussions over the last few months how many people would approve of the death sentence if someone is found to have committed a capital pre meditated murder versus life in prison, versus a reduced sentence if the perpetrator leads us to Kyron.

I find life without parole to be a much harsher punishment than death, where the suffering of a criminal ends.

That said, I don't like that we have to pay so much $$$ to house, feed, clothe, legal wranglings, etc, for many criminals. Joseph Duncan comes to mind. There is no rehabilitating him, he is 100% evilness, he can and will only hurt others, so why put out the $$$ to sustain someone like that in prison? (I would note that Duncan did get the DP, and am using him only as an example of a type of criminal.)

Then we get into the matter of life, which in some cases doesn't mean life, versus when it does. I think life should mean life - not 20 years or 30 years or 40 years.

I don't really care what the sentence is for someone who murders a child, so long as they are in prison until they die.

But what I would really like, is if we, as a society, would work harder to prevent the murders and abuse of children.

The OP asks specifically about Kyron, but I feel the same no matter who the child victim is.

And I don't really get into what happens at trial too much. All I want to do is to find out, and know, what happened to the child, and tell their story. I've said it many times - justice doesn't always come in a courtroom.

The best I feel I, personally, can do for a murdered, is to do my very best to seek out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about their story, about what happened to them, and tell it - help them have a voice.

Not sure if I answered the question, but that's how I feel about this subject.

 

[Marcusdog]

Whomever the perp may be they deserve never to walk the street again and harm other innocent people. Sitting in a cold dark cell for umpteen years will give them time to think plus they will not fare so well in prison as I understand the general population hates those who harm kids.

 

[miabellamoure]

It's interesting to read what each of us are for or against on this subject but, I wonder if there is any data that shows what a victim's family are more likely to lean towards. Anyone know?

I am not a victim or a family member of a victim (thank God!) but, I think the only way I could have peace in my life and be able to sleep at night would be to know that the perpetrator would never walk this earth ever again.

Even if I had complete faith in our judicial system that could guarentee that this perp would never get out of jail...I as a tax payer would still not want to pay for one day of their existance behind bars...and most of all if I were the family of a victim!

Think about that for a minute...the perp takes your precious family member away from you and in the end...you as the tax payer will pay to house, feed, etc this perp...how pathetic is that!

 

[NancyA]

Respectfully snipped

Even though you and I are on different sides of the DP fence, NancyA, I appreciate the argument you make, and I thank you for this thoughtful post.

One reason I don't like "no possibility of parole" is that it can become impossible to enforce. Because in the case of a young perp, it means trying to impose rules on future generates of parole boards. It's like a politician lobbying for a new tax and saying "this will only apply to the people in the highest brackets." Well, once the tax has become law, there's no telling what other politicians will do with it ten or twenty years from now. Charles Manson comes up for parole every few years. I don't care what his original sentence was ... there is nothing stopping some future parole board from setting him free. All we can do is hope it never happens--but we all know that in some cases, people who were presumed put away for life have been released a few years after sentencing.

At heart, I am with you in hating the death penalty. I just don't see any way around it sometimes.

I agree we’re not so different in our thinking, I too have strong feelings about life meaning life for certain crimes and I do share your concerns about legal reforms which might negate previous sentencing. I try not to be too black or white in my thinking, those tricky grey areas you bring up so clearly always give me pause even at my most adamant. For that reason I’m not entirely against the DP, I can’t find the post now, but someone said about ‘incurable’ killers, and I’m somewhat in agreement (I’m nothing if not consistently inconsistent) that in the same way we would put down a dangerous animal, there should be some way to ‘recategorise’ certain humans - as ‘psychologically rabid’ maybe - and thus too dangerous to be allowed to live.

 

[TxLady2]

Kind of jumping the gun a little, discussing sentencing, when we don't know what crime has been committed or who will be charged, but what the heck? They might as well stick the needle in her now... she's already been tried and convicted.

 

[Kimster]

This discussion is not meant to be aimed at one person. I'm not going to ask you guys again to quit throwing Terri in the mix. Read the opening post.

 

[grandmaj]

Just wondering from other discussions over the last few months how many people would approve of the death sentence if someone is found to have committed a capital pre meditated murder versus life in prison, versus a reduced sentence if the perpetrator leads us to Kyron.

Bumping.........highlighted by me.