Sexual behavior - Merged and Closed

[Jayelles]

that sounds like someone who is convinced the Ramseys killed Jon Bent..something someone like that would say....and not someone concerned with proof or evidence... Results of exams like that are used in sexual abuse cases every day...so why would anybody risk going to the doctor who was abusing their own child ? Yes I read where the doctor allegedly says he never did an internal exam. But how could the parents know the doctor wouldn't do one if they were molesting Jon Benet.
I find it funny....someone wants to doubt I exist ? Angrywolf is one of my names..I have had others...McHighlander was one.......Jay wants to doubt me..well go ahead Jay.Doubt away...if you want to make this personal then enjoy yourself...You seem to want to get all emotional over this.I don't believe this has to do with you protecting the posters.I think it simply has to do with your own ego...I'm certainly not here to stir things up.Why would I care to do that ? I'm not here to gain approval or attention. I've offered to discuss the case and I appreciate people like SuperDave who have taken me up on it.You could do the same Jay.

Why are you posting lies about me on the John Douglas forum? Why are you refusing to address the fact that you have now twisted my words at leat three times here? I have no personal issue with you other than the fact that you have attacked members here who are PDI accusing them of not looking at the evidence.

Then you claimed on the John Douglas forum that I said there was no stungun (not true). You also claimed there that we said he violated protocol (not true). Now you are saying that you are being attacked here because you think Patsy is innocent - that is garbage. I think Patsy is innocent as do many other members here. I most certainly wouldn't attack anyone for saying they believe Patsy is innocent but I DO object to your coming here and harping on that anyone who DOESN'T think she is innocent can't have studied the evidence.

Whether you own or rent a house...can you be sure where you were inside it on any given day ? Can you always say..well at 2 o'clock I was in this room and at 3 pm I was I that room..etc etc.I don't know if being wrong about where you were in your own home means you killed your own daughter.
I have a daughter. How many of you who are convinced Patsy killed Jon Benet have children ?You have any kids Jay ?

I have three children - two girls. My youngest is 6 - same age as JonBenet was when she was murdered. No I cannot imagine any loving mother killing her beautiful six year old daughter. Your assumptions are way off mark.

Don't be offended. Simply curious. Statistics aside....a lot of children are killed/molested by strangers/nonfamily as well..Polly Klass was an example...the Groen children were examples...the parents were also killed in that one so they weren't around to be suspects...You simply can't say that the parents are the only people who kill children...Yes look at the parents..but don't focus on them to the exclusion of all else. The Boulder police didn't even look at any other possibilities..and some of you aren't either because you're convinced Patsy did it/John did it/Burke did it or some combination of them did it.

No-one is saying that parents are the only people who kill children but statistically, they are the most likely to. Statistics are important - we calculate probability using statistics - make decisions using statistics. If the booking odds were the same and you were looking for a quick win, which horse would you choose? The horse who had won over 60% of the races it had entered.... or the horse who always came in last?

I'm still waiting to hear a motive if you think the Ramseys did it. How do you garrotte someone by accident ?:waitasec: Douglas has a slide..of Jon Benet with the garrotte around her neck and yes he showed it to us in Nashville. Absolutely terrible. Do you have the fortitude to do that to your own child ? Obviously some of you think Patsy does/did. I don't see she had the psychopathology to do it.:slap:

Most people who think that Patsy did it don't think she garotted Jonbenet by accident. They think she either caused the head injury by accident and staged the garotting to make it look like something a parent wouldn't do... or they think she accidentally strangled her by twisting the neck of her top (explaining the triangular abrasion on her neck) and then placed the garotte around her neck to cover up the accidental strangulation.

I don't think Patsy killed JonBenet so neither of the above are my theories (just in case you decided to twist my words about this too)

 

[Jayelles]

Angrywolf only wants to bash our theories....and hence doesn't give his/her own theory!

Try this santos....bigger, easier to see.

What do you think happened that night Angrywolf?

I'm interested to know why AngryWolf is bashing this forum at the JohnDouglas forum (they don't *usually* welcome that by the way). I'd also like to know why AngryWolf is repeatedly misrepresenting my words and avoiding answering my questions as to why.

I'd also like to know why I cannot read any of AngryWolf's posts at Court tv - is he/she banned there?

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

you seem to want to pick on me Jay.....only you know why...:laugh: I never attacked everybody on this board..I only said some of you believe the Ramseys killed Jon Benet..are firmly convinved of it..with no proof to back up your assertions.Never said everybody.Actually agree with SuperDave on some of the things he has said ..and I applaud the way he has presented himself.He at least tries to appear objective..unless others here...so the only lies/distortions seem to be on your side Jay..whichever side that is.I guess you are feeling combative and want to pick on somebody.I hope you will look elsewhere.It's getting old.:sick:

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

I have said that Jay is picking on me..which is true. I have asked people there about the views some of you have expressed.
I actually like WEBSLEUTHS....otherwise I wouldn't be a member here..so there is no bashing.Simply questioning.Sorry if you can't handle that.:laugh:

 

[santos1014]

I find it a bit offensive to question (the ones of us that believe in the Ramsey's guilt), if we have children. That, somehow the fact that you have a daughter and perhaps all the RDI posters do not have kids, makes everything we say bogus.

I have 3 daughters. I could never harm one of them. But, sadly,as all of us have seen and read,on news, TV, and these forums, mothers can and do hurt and murder their children. I won't offend your intelligence by listing some of them now, as you are, I am sure, familiar with them all.
Having or not having children does not form my nor probably most anyone else's opinion on this case.

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

the forum admin there...if you want to know. What does that have to do with the Jon Benet Ramsey case ? Nothing. You must lead a really boring life Jay...:laugh:

 

[Jayelles]

the forum admin there...if you want to know. What does that have to do with the Jon Benet Ramsey case ? Nothing. You must lead a really boring life Jay...:laugh:

You still haven't answered my questions - Why did you twist my words here? Why are you misrpresenting my posts elsewhere (incidentally, I am a member of the JD forum). Why don't you simply answer those questions?

You are misrepresenting my words and then accusing me of having a personal vendetta aghainst you when I call you on it.

You told me that you knew me from the CTV forum - but I can't find any of your posts there - only posts which quote your posts.

If you had read the recent poll on this forum, you would know that most of the members here think PDI. So when you make posts stating that PDI theorists haven't looked at the evidence then yes, you are attacking most of the members here.

It's not nice to post on this forum and then go elsewhere and slag us off.

 

[Ames]

Let me start by saying - Ames, you aren't missing anything by not being there. I wandered over this morning and it's still all the same people saying the same stuff - like Levin lied about the fiber evidence. They won't see anything they don't agree with. If it weren't for the lurkers that need to hear an RDI pov, I'd never ever go back there again. The stress of dealing with people like shill isn't worth it, for the most part.

I know...it has ALWAYS been the same old stuff over and over again on that board. I am so glad that I was pointed to Websleuths!! I just LOVE this place!! People actually can post without verbally attacking the other posters that do not agree with them...what a NOVEL idea!!

I'll go to any JBR board, whether they agree with me or not. The ones who don't are more fun in a way because of the challenge. Isn't that why you like this board, Wolf? Because you want to step up to challenge of making your point and trying to convice others you're right? Sometimes you have to know when to say when - and Ames hit that point. Nothing wrong with that. I hit it around the same time with those folks. There's no reason to have to tolerate personal attacks because someone doesn't agree with you.

My thoughts EXACTLY!!! I do not care if anyone disagrees with me, isn't that what makes the world go round? No, wait a minute...I think thats LOVE...oh well. Anyway, I know that not everybody has the same opinion...thats what makes people unique. BUT...I do not agree with the personal attacks on people that do not agree with you. I was called COLD BLOODED...and told that I would probably kill my child and cover it up....just because the poster didn't like that I said that Patsy could have had one too many drinks that night. I still have NO idea how Patsy's cocktails got turned into someone questioning MY character. Doesn't make sense to me... And lets not forget that I was not the one that had my child murdered under my nose, and left IN the house.

I think a drunk Patsy would have been more likely to hit her child in anger - judgment is impaired with alcohol use. Inhibitions are down. How many children have been abused because Mom or Dad was drinking or stoned and didn't have the same amount of control they have when sober? There's a reason there's a high rate of alcoholism and drug use in abusive parents.

Exactly....what about the mom that was drunk and placed her baby in the microwave and TURNED IT ON?? More children are abused when the parents are drunk. I think that a parent is more likely to harm their child, after having a drink or two...than they would if they hadn't been drinking at all.

Whether she was drunk or not, hitting her own child hard enough to fracture the skull clearly wasn't something Patsy was going to own up to - should she confess to police with the disclaimer of having been drunk, and expect that to get her off?

True...and I suspect that she was NOT drunk, and that she had just enough drinks to alter her personality. And that could have even been ONE drink that could have done that. Like I said before, we don't know if she was on any meds. at the time, that shouldn't have been mixed with alcohol.

Please read back through the threads here, Wolf. Not many of us PDI believe JonBenet wetting the bed was the sole reason Patsy may have gone off on her. There were many contributing factors that lead people to believe that perhaps Patsy hit her breaking point and freaked out, causing her daughter's death.

Exactly...the bedwetting was the straw that broke the camel's back...so to speak. I suppose that Patsy wasn't at all thilled with the fact that JB refused to wear the matching shirt to the White's party. I guess that she must have thought that they were twins or something. And there still could be something to Patsy maybe wanting to dye JB's hair, before the trip, remember...JB's hair was in ponytailS when her body was found. SOOOO...Patsy could have not only been pissed off about JB not wanting to wear the matching shirt, but also, because JB didn't want her hair dyed at 10:00 pm, AND THEN...she wet and/or soiled her bed....AND HENCE...pissing Patsy off even further to the point of her uncontrollable rage.

 

[Ames]

was Patsy an alcoholic..as some of you want to claim..or simply had too much to drink ? If she had been drunk...the police should have noticed..either through her smell or from her behavior...and the police could have asked for a blood alchohol test to confirm/determine if Patsy had been drinking. Is there any indication any of that happened or was done ? Probably not...:angel:

Nope, nobody is claiming that Patsy was an alcoholic...at least I'm not. SHE ADMITTED to having drinks at the party, in one of her interviews (I will post the link if you need it, it can be found on the acandyrose site.), so this is NOT something that we made up or pulled out of thin air. By the time that the cops arrived...that morning....the drinks that she had consumed the night before..would have been worn off of her.

 

[Ames]

Oh ,made me think of something, those size 12 panties may of been the only panties in the house that were new & had no poop stains on them ,, from what I have read ,every pair of panties JB owned were stained or dirity , so that could be why they were found & put on her, matchig the day may of been done to prove that she would wear them ,

WOW...I posted this on another thread somewhere, before I read yours. I TOTALLY agree with you. THAT IMO...is the reason that the new pack was opened.

 

[Ames]

I don't think anyone thinks Patsy was an alcoholic. I was teasing Ames when I said that, since others accused her of saying that it was speculated that Patsy may have been drinking that night.

How are the police going to tell if Patsy had been drinking the night before when they didn't even see her until 6 am? I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone who stays drunk all night long and into the next morning on a couple of glasses of wine before 10 pm.

Police were told to handle the Rs with special treatment, because they were a wealthy and affluent couple. I'm sure if JR was insulted at the idea of going to the poice station for questioning, he'd have raised hell about being given a BAC test. No, police didn't suspect either of the Rs were drunk that morning...but they did notice Patsy was wearing the same clothes as the night before and it looked like her side of the bed hadn't been slept in, as well as her peeking through her fingers to see if her story was being believed or to see if Officer French thought she was as much of a hottie as she thought she was (LOL, Ames, that had me rolling.)

It is apparent to me that angrywolf thinks that we are making it up about Patsy having drinks at the party. She ADMITTED it, in one of her interviews that can be found on acandyrose's site. I am not saying that she is an alcoholic, or that she was falling down drunk. But, I believe she probably had somewhat of a buzz going on, for lack of a better word.

 

[Jayelles]

suspects....that simply isn't true...they may have done so since Laci became DA after the case was taken away from the Boulder PD...but not when the PD had charge of it.That's probably LE propaganda distributed so as to cause suspicion on the Ramseys..the old" only they could have done it method". Heck..they didn't even bother to interview convicted child molesters/pedophiles who lived in the area....

Here are the statistics as in 2001 - BEFORE the case was taken over by Mary Lacy:-

Dec. 17, 2001
Contact: Jana Petersen, Media Relations, (303) 441-3090
Jennifer Bray, Media Relations, (303) 441-3090
City Web site: http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/

Ramsey Update #84

Police mark fifth anniversary of investigation As the fifth anniversary of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey approaches, Boulder Police have compiled updated statistical information related to the case.

• Number of people formally interviewed to date: More than 650
Note: many have been interviewed more than one time

• Number of outside experts and consultants utilized to date: More than 60

• Number of persons investigated as possible suspects to date: About 140

• Number of items of evidence logged into property to date: About 1,400

• Approximate size of investigative case file to date: About 43,000 pages

• Number of phone tips: About 5,300

• Number of letters received in reference to Ramsey case: More than 4,800

• Number of states investigation has taken PD to: 18

• Total cost of investigation for Boulder PD: $1,705,251.21

 

[Ames]

No, police didn't suspect either of the Rs were drunk that morning...but they did notice Patsy was wearing the same clothes as the night before and it looked like her side of the bed hadn't been slept in, as well as her peeking through her fingers to see if her story was being believed or to see if Officer French thought she was as much of a hottie as she thought she was (LOL, Ames, that had me rolling.)

:laugh:

 

[Jayelles]

Don't laugh...there was actually an elf theory here a couple of years ago. Seriously.

Angrywolf, were you formerly in LE?

Was it here Nehemiah? I've seen the Elf theory on other forums, but didn't realise it had been posted here too!

There are a multitude of daft theories about the case, the Elf one took a bit of beating though!

 

[Jayelles]

It is apparent to me that angrywolf thinks that we are making it up about Patsy having drinks at the party. She ADMITTED it, in one of her interviews that can be found on acandyrose's site. I am not saying that she is an alcoholic, or that she was falling down drunk. But, I believe she probably had somewhat of a buzz going on, for lack of a better word.

As we all know, anyone who isn't used to drinking regularly is MORE likely to get tipsy on a few drinks... (hic!...is it February yet?

 

[Ames]

As we all know, anyone who isn't used to drinking regularly is MORE likely to get tipsy on a few drinks... (hic!...is it February yet?

LOL .... Thank you!!! EXACTLY...thats the point that I have been trying to make here.

 

[lannie]

you seem to want to pick on me Jay.....only you know why...:laugh: I never attacked everybody on this board..I only said some of you believe the Ramseys killed Jon Benet..are firmly convinved of it..with no proof to back up your assertions.Never said everybody.Actually agree with SuperDave on some of the things he has said ..and I applaud the way he has presented himself.He at least tries to appear objective..unless others here...so the only lies/distortions seem to be on your side Jay..whichever side that is.I guess you are feeling combative and want to pick on somebody.I hope you will look elsewhere.It's getting old.:sick:

ANGRYMAN You keep attacking to get us off thread, you really tried to mess up THE sex abuse thread, JAY IS A GREAT POSTER WHO HAS TIRLESSLY POSTED INFORMATION THAT IS THOUTHFULL & FAIR, JAY DON'T PAY HIM NO MINE ,,WE ALL CAN SEE RIGHT THROUGH HIM ,HE IS LIKE CLEAR GLASS ALL THE WAY TO JAMS.

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

that measures blood alcohol levels...if Patsy had been drunk the night before it's probable her blood alcohol levels would have still been elevated..above normal..the next morning....simple biochemistry...
and that still doesn't explain..if she had been drunk..how she would have been able to fomulate the plan and write the note and make it work...and then why do all the other stuff..things you view with suspicion...like call other people when Jon Benet turned up missing...it just contradicts the image you would want to project if you wanted people to think Jon Benet had been kidnapped...I don't find any of these "Ramsey did it" theories persuasive...:loser:

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

you don't know anything about me...heck..you sound less coherent than ..well..that some of you say Patsy Ramsey was...Jay attacked me..not the other way around...so you believe what you want to lannie.I couldn't care less...:loser:

 

[Jayelles]

that measures blood alcohol levels...if Patsy had been drunk the night before it's probable her blood alcohol levels would have still been elevated..above normal..the next morning....simple biochemistry...
and that still doesn't explain..if she had been drunk..how she would have been able to fomulate the plan and write the note and make it work...and then why do all the other stuff..things you view with suspicion...like call other people when Jon Benet turned up missing...it just contradicts the image you would want to project if you wanted people to think Jon Benet had been kidnapped...I don't find any of these "Ramsey did it" theories persuasive...:loser:

That's fine. No-one is complaining about your theory here. Websleuths has plenty of IDI members who have posted here for years (myself included). It's possibly the forum with the widest range of POVs. Please just don't attack those members who have a different POV from your own and accuse them of believing RDI because they don't look at the evidence or suggest they are biased because of "convictions" they might have.

However, the above and the FACT that you have repeatedly misrepresented my words here and elsewhere suggest to me that you are not really too interested in serious debate.

Lannie is right, people who read here can see what's happening. Allow me to post a link to the John Douglas forum where you have misrepresented what has been posted here:-

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=32606#32606