The Actual Facts... What hard evidence is there against Terri?

[cluciano63]

The only true facts we have:

Kyron went missing from school.

Everything else is conjecture, everything else has been manipulated by media, persons involved, and LE is trying yet guessing.

One fact. Kyron is missing. My microscope can see only that.

But the thread topic is meant to be what facts (evidence) LE haa to use against Terri-not what the true facts in the case are. And it seems they do not have much, to our knowledge. Lots and lots of wonky things that make her stand out in a crowd, but not courtroom evidence.

 

[carbuff]

Please provide a link where Terri has denied having anything to do with Kyron's disappearance.

Words are cheap, and some of the most vehement denials in past crimes have come from obviously guilty people like Scott Peterson. That she has chosen not to make a media statement has no bearing on her guilt or lack thereof.

 

[citigirl]

We don't know of any physical evidence or witnesses that connect Terri with Kyron's disappearance.
The polygraphs and sexting would be clearly inadmissible as evidence in a trial and there's only a very slim chance that the murder for hire plot would be admissible.
All I can think of in terms of known circumstantial evidence would be:

• false statement to teacher about a doctor appointment
• witnesses sighting truck in two different locations at the school
• inability to verify whereabouts for 90 minute period that morning

I don't care how easy it is for a DA to get an indictment, if that's all he's got, he won't even seek one.

Okay, this I understand. So we are not interested in circumstantial evidence in this thread? Maybe a name change is in order then...a fact is a fact.

 

[citigirl]

Words are cheap, and some of the most vehement denials in past crimes have come from obviously guilty people like Scott Peterson. That she has chosen not to make a media statement has no bearing on her guilt or lack thereof.

But it is a fact and it weighs heavily with me, and may weigh heavily with a jury.

 

[citigirl]

I don't have one....nor do I have one where anyone who was known to be at the school that morning has denied having anything to do with Kyron's disappearance.

We have equal factual evidence against all of them too.

and if it is a fact that terri never denied having anything to do with kyron's disappearance? I must have missed that too.

J, you can't have it both ways...

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Citigirl, we are just trying to see what LE can use (from what we know) to try to convict her. They can't use much of the stuff we've heard, as it is not relevant. That is all we are trying to figure out. I'm not convinced she is innocent but I sure don't have evidence enough to call her guilty either.

I'm not 100% convinced anyone is innocent but i sure as hell think someone is guilty. (leaving a little tiny bit of room for him to have wandered - cause if they find him and tell us that is what happened, i would believe them.)

 

[cluciano63]

Lots of cases are tried on circumstantial evidence alone, as I stated earlier in this thread. But usually in those cases, there is at least some physical evidence of the crime they are trying to convict someone for, some blood or something. It is hard to see how a fully circumstantial case can be brought when the charges seem to be so uncertain.
Some of those other things about Terri may be able to be used, in conjunction with other evidence to shore up a case, but I don't see how they can be the case.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

J, you can't have it both ways...

your right citi. I choose the first one for now. I don't mean to be augumentative citi. insert hug icon here. jade.

 

[citigirl]

your right citi. I choose the first one for now. I don't mean to be augumentative citi. insert hug icon here. jade.

That's sweet, jade, thank you. I feel a lot of emotion about this boy and a lot of anger toward whoever took him. I'm sure you are feeling the same....

 

[daisy7]

This thread is now back and I hope it doesn't need to be closed again.

Yes, peeps have different opinions, but there is NO need to bicker or be ugly with one another. Just treat your fellow posters the same way you want to be treated and all is good.

The topic is what hard evidence is there against Terri?. So, let's resume discussion in a nice way.

 

[BeanE]

We don't know of any physical evidence or witnesses that connect Terri with Kyron's disappearance.
The polygraphs and sexting would be clearly inadmissible as evidence in a trial and there's only a very slim chance that the murder for hire plot would be admissible.
All I can think of in terms of known circumstantial evidence would be:

• false statement to teacher about a doctor appointment
• witnesses sighting truck in two different locations at the school
• inability to verify whereabouts for 90 minute period that morning

I don't care how easy it is for a DA to get an indictment, if that's all he's got, he won't even seek one.

Hi, desquire. The doctor's appointment being false came from unnamed sources, so I think we need to move that one to the unconfirmed category.

Sources: Terri Horman vague on Kyron’s doctor appointment date
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html

I would agree on the other two. We have LE confirmation on the witnesses/truck, and we have the actions of LE (seeking info on truck whereabouts in that timeframe) that they would most likely not be conducting if her whereabouts were verified.

 

[Jack]

Very well. She would not testify. She cannot be compelled to testify unless she is given immunity. If you want to split hairs.

I thought I heard she simply wasn't asked any questions but might have to go back at some other time and might be asked questions at that time.

Refusing to testify unless given immunity is unconfirmed.

 

[MarieFaith]

I'm lost here. What do you mean by unnamed sources? I read the article, and unless I just had too much sangria at the Mexican restaurant where I just ate,
doesn't this article name the boy he usually had lunch with?

Edit: Sorry, I thought I had quoted Bean's response to the article about the doctor appointment.

I was a substitute for an elementary school for several years, and I can tell you that children are very observant at this early age as to who is doing what. And lunch is a big deal with them...who sits where, etc.

In other words, if this boy who usually sat with him at lunch believed that he was going to be gone for the day, that's significant to me. Plus, his teacher thought so.

So, maybe all that is confirmed here is that there was a misunderstanding.

But in all my years of subbing, I can't remember one instance of such a misunderstanding. Whether or not a child was out for some reason was always a matter of importance, science fair or book fair, or whatever....it didn't matter.

 

[wondering1]

Did you miss the story of Dede leaving the courthouse where the grand jury was meeting? And we were told that she did not answer questions?

I feel that this thread has been started just to argue, not to actually collect facts.

They'd heard a lot of very nice things about her and really, really just wanted to meet her in person. :dance:

It was a nice break in their day investigating the possible kidnapping and murder of a 7 yo.:furious:

 

[BeanE]

I'm lost here. What do you mean by unnamed sources? I read the article, and unless I just had too much sangria at the Mexican restaurant where I just ate,
doesn't this article name the boy he usually had lunch with?

Edit: Sorry, I thought I had quoted Bean's response to the article about the doctor appointment.

I was a substitute for an elementary school for several years, and I can tell you that children are very observant at this early age as to who is doing what. And lunch is a big deal with them...who sits where, etc.

In other words, if this boy who usually sat with him at lunch believed that he was going to be gone for the day, that's significant to me. Plus, his teacher thought so.

So, maybe all that is confirmed here is that there was a misunderstanding.

In all my years of subbing, I can't remember one instance of such a misunderstanding. Whether or not a child was out for some reason was always a matter of importance, science fair or book fair, or whatever....it didn't matter.

Well, the article indicates that the named boy thought there was an appointment that day because the teacher said something about it to him.

Kim Holm’s son, K, who Terri Horman photographed with his science project around the time she took a picture of Kyron that morning, said her son knew about the appointment too.

“And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Holm said.

Then it also says unnamed sources say that it was the school's understanding there was an appointment that day.

There was no expectation on the part of Skyline School that Kyron Horman would be in class after the science fair the day he disappeared, according to multiple sources.

What we don't have is confirmation that Terri made a false statement to the teacher or other school official that the appointment was that day, and we don't have confirmation from the teacher or school of why they thought the appointment was that day.

Terri claims she told the teacher the appointment was the next Friday.

The school procedures in the handbook show that when a parent is taking a child out of the school before dismissal, they must provide a signed note, and also sign to check out the child at the office. We don't know if that signed note from Terri, or her signature at the office exist. It's unconfirmed.

There was also a report by a friend of Terri's that Terri claimed to have given the teacher paperwork related to the appointment. It's unconfirmed if that paperwork was handed over, whether there were dates on it confirming when the appt was, and if the teacher returned the paperwork to Terri on June 4.

 

[craftybatchy]

I guess these would go in the unconfirmed category:
Polygraph tests failed
Teacher says Terri was taking Kyron to the dr.

I would probably put the MFH under unconfirmed. Was it proven, or was it some kind of LE tactic, or what?

Also about the person in/near truck - there is confusion about that. It seems like LE has stated they have witnesses who saw someone in/near the truck, but I know some people are questioning it. Do they or don't they have witnesses who saw someone in or near the Horman truck while Terri was inside the school?

IIRC, TH father told media that information as to whether or not Terri failed the first polygraph came from Terri herself. Whether or not she passed/failed the poly should not be taken as fact until confirmed directly from LE.

 

[MarieFaith]

Thanks, Bean, for your explanation.

But if I was on a jury, the fact that everyone (apparently everyone, as far as we know), at the school thought he had a doctor appointment that morning, would be significant to me.

We can assume then that if he had been at school, everyone would have been surprised.

Maybe it's not the kind of confirmed evidence this thread is supposed to be about...but isn't a remarkable coincidence that this kind of out-of-the-ordinary misunderstanding just so happened on the morning when little Kyron disappeared into thin air???

 

[TxLady2]

Many of the things you have listed are not illegal but when taken in their entirety, really puts Terri in a bad light. And now possibly DeDe too since shes unaccounted for for 90 minutes at a very critical time that morning.

Sexting is not illegal but speaks to Terris character very strongly IMO when shes doing it days after Kyron goes missing and with an old friend of her husbands, no less. Shows me: No morals whatsoever. Or common sense.

Multiple throwaway cell phones- sneaky, and makes me wonder why why why?

Unaccounted for 90 minutes or so of Terris morning- she can't have a block of amnesia can she? She knew where she went, where she was. The story of driving baby K around due to an earache is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

MFH Plot- speaks for itself. She wanted her husband DEAD. She just wasn't very smart about who she asked. Had she asked the right shady character, it might have been a done deal. Then what? She'd get social security checks for both Kyron and Baby K till they turned 18, due to the death of their father.. Get J back and she has that child support too. Nice little nest egg for Terri, and no Kaine anymore.

"Forgetting" where she shopped that day. Doesn't even need addressing since its so senseless.

Last one to see Kyron. Brought the truck yet did not stay for science fair so she could bring the project home, which was the reason she borrowed the truck. Suspicious. What was her hurry that morning to get out of the school?

Attempted to create confusion with Kyrons teacher by yelling across a crowded gym room (allegedly) he had a drs appointment. Later blames the teacher for that as "she was new, it was her first year teaching" and also "she was hard of hearing", because the dr. appt. was the 11th, not that day. However, her trick caused the teacher to not be alarmed at Kyrons absence that day, thinking he was "at the doctor" like Terri had yelled to her across a crowded room.

So now, WHERE IS KYRON??

BBM
No... Kyron would have gone back to his mother. Terri did not adopt him, she had no legal rights to keep him or draw SS checks for him in the event of Kaine's death. Those would have gone to Desiree.
And if it had been a done deal, then it would have caught up with her eventually, so when she ended up in prison, baby K would go into foster care, and no SS checks for her either.
As to some of your other comments, I see your point, but a jury should not convict someone based on their character or lack of morality. Sorry, that's just not enough evidence to show that she did anything with or to Kyron.

 

[TxLady2]

I know this has been discussed at length in the GJ thread, but... apparently they do have more evidence than we know, or there wouldn't be a grand jury sitting right now to hear this case. The DA is seeking an indictment... for what charge(s) we don't know. But they aren't hearing testimony from dozens of people just to be passing the time, they have a purpose.
I don't know of any respectable DA who would present a case to the GJ based on what WE know right now... so there has to be more than that.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Please provide a link where Terri has denied having anything to do with Kyron's disappearance.

found one...

News Release from: Multnomah Co. Sheriff's Office MULTNOMAH COUNTY SHERRIFF'S OFFICE CONTINUES SEARCH FOR 7 YEAR OLD KYRON HORMAN
Posted: June 5th, 2010 9:06 AM

Kyron did not return home on his school bus as scheduled at 330 PM Friday June 4. Family called Skyline Elementary School to report that he had not returned home. Multnomah County Sherriff's Office was contacted at approximately 4 PM.
Kyron's stepmother reports she last saw him at approximately 845 AM Friday, walking down the hallway towards his classroom.