The bear, the pineapple and the size 12 bloomies...

[trixie]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Humm.... If it was an intruder...Maybe...

Maybe he didn't enter through the window and only TRIED to exit by trying to put her through it first and dropped her... Maybe he tried to get her through the window because he missed the laundry room upstairs... but knew there was one in the basement. Once down the 1st flight of stairs, he realizes she had soiled her clothes and he needed a change of clothes... He took her on to the basement so he didn't risk getting caught... found clothes in the laundryroom. In changing her his perversions got the best of him... and he acted...

I don't think she was asleep. Her mouth was duct taped. Her arms were tied. Maybe she was drugged with non-tracable drugs... Maybe not... Maybe she was kicking and screaming... and he just dropped her on the concrete floor or banged her head as she was fighting into the wall or doorframe...
Were all the door locks on the exterior doors deadbolts? Could an intruder have unlocked one from the inside, opened the door and turned the lock back to the locked position and exited? If it was not a dead bolt I don't see why he couldn't have exited and locked himself out...to cover his exit point.(This done after obtaining entry earlier in the day when they were unlocked.)

There was water in the basement laundry room. He could have used his shirt to wipe her. (You don't hear running water in our downstairs master bedroom when the bedrooms upstairs are using water. They are at the other end of the house and 1 story up. They are on a separate water pump too...)

As for changing her.....he could have grabbed the 1st clothes available...even from a laundry room... That would explain the size 12 undies.... Once in the basement... it was too risky to go back up and get a more proper size...or maybe they were already in the basement laundry and the only ones there... It wasn't used often, but was used for comforters and larger items by the maid. Maybe she did a load of bedsheets and JBR's comforter and her soiled clothes were the only clotes among them... Ouuuugh... That really does make sense!

I don't know... I'm just trying to look at all possibilities... This accidental head injury on a door frame or concrete wall in the basement is screaming at me that this is what happened.... Suddenly, JMK's words "It was an accident.... made sense with the injury to the skull being on the side of the skull and remembering hitting my sons head accidently as I carried him inside our home asleep.... Time hopefully will tell....

Hi there! Well she definetly wasn't kicking and screaming with duct tape on her mouth. When removed it had perfect lip prints. It was staging, put on her after she had died, IMO. Also, an FBI profiler said one time that the reason you would tape someones mouth shut is to keep them quiet while you get them out of the house.....quickly. We know that wasn't what the tape was all about.

 

[celia]

I thought the detectives said they noticed the 'smell' of urine when examining around her bed in her room.

The smell of urine, around her bed, does not neccessarily mean that she wet her bed THAT night......I work with people who have incontinence problems.....even when they have plastic mattress protecters, & their beds are made up with fresh linen, the faint smell of urine is ALWAYS there...

 

[gaia]

The smell of urine, around her bed, does not neccessarily mean that she wet her bed THAT night......I work with people who have incontinence problems.....even when they have plastic mattress protecters, & their beds are made up with fresh linen, the faint smell of urine is ALWAYS there...

Ooooh, Celia, you sure are on target about THAT! Ewwww...my mom suffered from alzheimer's and started losing continence! Goodness, she smelled so much...even when we changed her frequently...and her bedding, etc. It was so sad because she'd always been soooo particular about her smell, clothing, etc. When she was first placed in a facility, I could smell her room before I went into it. Fortunately, that got better because I PROTESTED a lot!

Gotta say, though, the idea JB might have either been dropped or swung into a door or something like that when carried sounds very intriguing. I'm still wondering if it was an accident. I can almost see John carrying her upstairs or something, tripping, nearly falling, catching himself, but unloading her into the steps or something like that. OK, I know, it's probably not true but it's a scenario I can see. If that happened, I don't think the Rams would want the world to know they killed their child...even if it was an accident! I mean that. There's something about these people that make me feel that way. Also, John lost another daughter and never seemed to get over it. Maybe, even though I think it was a carwreck, he still blamed himself, so if he inadvertently caused JB's demise, he'd not be able to deal with that in the big world. Or, how about Patsy was struggling with her in the bathroom, picked her up and was trying to get her to comply, but she refused and fell and hit her head. YOu know the drill. There are so many ways this could have played out. We'll never know...that's my opinion.

 

[BBB167893]

"Do you know where I can find the quote of Patsy forgiving the killer? That's a new one for me."

That would be her last interview. You can find it on Miss Marple's wiki.

"Hi there! Well she definetly wasn't kicking and screaming with duct tape on her mouth. When removed it had perfect lip prints. It was staging, put on her after she had died, IMO. Also, an FBI profiler said one time that the reason you would tape someones mouth shut is to keep them quiet while you get them out of the house.....quickly. We know that wasn't what the tape was all about."

Well done!

 

[wenchie]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Humm.... If it was an intruder...Maybe...

Maybe he didn't enter through the window and only TRIED to exit by trying to put her through it first and dropped her... Maybe he tried to get her through the window because he missed the laundry room upstairs... but knew there was one in the basement. Once down the 1st flight of stairs, he realizes she had soiled her clothes and he needed a change of clothes... He took her on to the basement so he didn't risk getting caught... found clothes in the laundryroom. In changing her his perversions got the best of him... and he acted...

I don't think she was asleep. Her mouth was duct taped. Her arms were tied. Maybe she was drugged with non-tracable drugs... Maybe not... Maybe she was kicking and screaming... and he just dropped her on the concrete floor or banged her head as she was fighting into the wall or doorframe...

Were all the door locks on the exterior doors deadbolts? Could an intruder have unlocked one from the inside, opened the door and turned the lock back to the locked position and exited? If it was not a dead bolt I don't see why he couldn't have exited and locked himself out...to cover his exit point.(This done after obtaining entry earlier in the day when they were unlocked.)

There was water in the basement laundry room. He could have used his shirt to wipe her. (You don't hear running water in our downstairs master bedroom when the bedrooms upstairs are using water. They are at the other end of the house and 1 story up. They are on a separate water pump too...)

As for changing her.....he could have grabbed the 1st clothes available...even from a laundry room... That would explain the size 12 undies.... Once in the basement... it was too risky to go back up and get a more proper size...or maybe they were already in the basement laundry and the only ones there... It wasn't used often, but was used for comforters and larger items by the maid. Maybe she did a load of bedsheets and JBR's comforter and her soiled clothes were the only clotes among them... Ouuuugh... That really does make sense!

I don't know... I'm just trying to look at all possibilities... This accidental head injury on a door frame or concrete wall in the basement is screaming at me that this is what happened.... Suddenly, JMK's words "It was an accident.... made sense with the injury to the skull being on the side of the skull and remembering hitting my sons head accidently as I carried him inside our home asleep.... Time hopefully will tell....

Questions:

How did the intruder get IN to the house? There was no forced entry, and John Ramsey first said that the house was locked that night - but waffled on that statement later.

Jonbenet was either dead or unconsious when the duct tape was put on. As someone above said, the lip print was perfect. She was probably not breathing when it was applied - the duct tape is pure staging.

The shirt Jonbenet had been wearing was found in her bathroom - indicating that she had been washed and changed in that room. Patsy said that the size 12 undies had been in a pack in Jonbenet's bedroom, too.

And that wack to the head was a hard one - if kid's skulls cracked open like that from hitting a wall of door jamb - none of us would have made it to adulthood.

 

[tumble]

The shirt Jonbenet had been wearing was found in her bathroom -

If you are referring to the JBR's red sweater I don't think we know that she had been wearing that.

And that wack to the head was a hard one - if kid's skulls cracked open like that from hitting a wall of door jamb - none of us would have made it to adulthood.

Actuallt the open crack in the skull could have originally been just a thin crack and then the swelling of the brain opened it up. This phoenomenon has a fancy name, I just don't remeber it now

 

[angelwngs]

If you are referring to the JBR's red sweater I don't think we know that she had been wearing that.

Actuallt the open crack in the skull could have originally been just a thin crack and then the swelling of the brain opened it up. This phoenomenon has a fancy name, I just don't remeber it now

Hi Tumble,

This is a good point. Have you seen the picture of the actual skull with the crack and the hole?

The hole in the skull is what disturbs me. Even if the blow to the skull was after strangulation and death, why was there no more blood that there was given the size of the hole in her skull? Do you remember from the autopsy report the size of cuts on JBR's head? I just remember an abrasion on her left cheek. (I think it was...) I need to look it up...

 

[kazzbar]

If you are referring to the JBR's red sweater I don't think we know that she had been wearing that.

Actuallt the open crack in the skull could have originally been just a thin crack and then the swelling of the brain opened it up. This phoenomenon has a fancy name, I just don't remeber it now

Would this condition occur if a patient was rushed straight to emergency and received medical help. Would JBR have survived a blow like that if taken to a hospital?

 

[angelwngs]

Would this condition occur if a patient was rushed straight to emergency and received medical help. Would JBR have survived a blow like that if taken to a hospital?

Hubby's mom fell and was immediately taken to the hospital. His step-sister also fell and was also taken to hospital, although not imediately as she was not found after the fall as quickly. Both had extensive swelling of the brain. Both had fractures. Both had to have a section of the skull removed to reduce swelling. Both died. I assume that having the surgery in the hospital to remove a circular section of skull may have helped to prevent or at least lessen this phenomenon of the skull cracking apart at the fracture....

I have read that JBR's blow to the head was in itself considered to have been characteristic with a "fatal blow". I interpreted that to mean, that had she not been strangled as well, that she would potentially still have died... But you know how opinions from 'experts' go.... Who knows...

 

[kazzbar]

Hubby's mom fell and was immediately taken to the hospital. His step-sister also fell and was also taken to hospital, although not imediately as she was not found after the fall as quickly. Both had extensive swelling of the brain. Both had fractures. Both had to have a section of the skull removed to reduce swelling. Both died. I assume that having the surgery in the hospital to remove a circular section of skull may have helped to prevent or at least lessen this phenomenon of the skull cracking apart at the fracture....

I have read that JBR's blow to the head was in itself considered to have been characteristic with a "fatal blow". I interpreted that to mean, that had she not been strangled as well, that she would potentially still have died... But you know how opinions from 'experts' go.... Who knows...

Exactly, who knows. Whatever caused the blow to the head it must have been massive. I have seen lots of autopsy photos that make me cringe but that one of the head is just unbelievable.