The Croslin & Cummings families, what's going on?

[Emeralgem]

Please explain to me (if you choose to) why would Ron move his only daughter from the St Johns river after she had been placed there by Tommy or Joe>? If someone put my child in a river for any reason, I would kill them..or beat them up pretty bad... or a grandmother? please help me understand your theory.

Plain and simple for me... Ron C is the one who is responsible for his daughter's death...The incident occurred at Hank and Lisa's residence on Magnolia or in the immediate vicinity of the Shell Harbor area.. Ron C high tailed it in to work in order to have an alibi and he left Misty high and dry with a deceased child on her hands..Tommy and others were recruited to HELP out that night..

IF Haleigh was placed in the St. Johns by Tommy and/or Jo, no doubt in my mind Ron C knew they were putting her there....They were following his instructions... Also, I have never stated for certain it was Ron C who moved Haleigh IF indeed Tommy and/or Jo placed her in the water at that public dock.. I have always stated Ron C or a member of his family moved her to another location after the fact IF indeed Tommy and/or Jo placed her there...
I'm guessing Ron C didn't bother to kill them are cause severe bodily harm to any of them due to the fact he knew he was settting them ALL up to take the fall for him...Just biding time for when the time was right...JMHO

 

[Whisperer]

All I can tell is that no one is interested in this case due to the cummings and some of the croslins. Even rc's own attorneys were glad to get out of the "fray". (their own words).
TM had enough of them and was glad to go (and that includes rc and his family). All seemed to think the child had died as soon as they arrived. Mark N. was also glad to walk away.

No one likes them, the press can't stand them. We would have nothing at all with this case if it wasn't for Cobra and Art Harris. LE hid behind "It's an ongoing investigation". They knew there was no stranger involved. The best they could do is arrest them for drugs. For that I am thankful.

They are not a sympathetic bunch. Therefore no interest in poor Haleigh. What a shame. LE didn't want any information out there and didn' t want the public involved. Why they decided an amber alert is beyond me. I think it was to show the outsiders they cared and tried. The Alert was of no value. They didn't even know if she was wearing clothes...or a time of disappearance. We are the only ones who give a darn and we are getting nowhere. There is nothing new we learned other than a few interviews thanks to AH, Cobra and KP..

 

[dodie20]

All I can tell is that no one is interested in this case due to the cummings and some of the croslins. Even rc's own attorneys were glad to get out of the "fray". (their own words).
TM had enough of them and was glad to go (and that includes rc and his family). All seemed to think the child had died as soon as they arrived. Mark N. was also glad to walk away.

No one likes them, the press can't stand them. We would have nothing at all with this case if it wasn't for Cobra and Art Harris. LE hid behind "It's an ongoing investigation". They knew there was no stranger involved. The best they could do is arrest them for drugs. For that I am thankful.

They are not a sympathetic bunch. Therefore no interest in poor Haleigh. What a shame. LE didn't want any information out there and didn' t want the public involved. Why they decided an amber alert is beyond me. I think it was to show the outsiders they cared and tried. The Alert was of no value. They didn't even know if she was wearing clothes...or a time of disappearance. We are the only ones who give a darn and we are getting nowhere. There is nothing new we learned other than a few interviews thanks to AH, Cobra and KP..

I can tell you're really frustrated. I am too. There might not be a big national interest, but there are some of us who are loyal to the bone and plan on seeing this thing through to the end. I just hope the end gets here before we all get old and wither away. I don't want my last words to be, 'what happened to Haleigh?" and I'm only being a little facetious. It seems like this case is dragging along because we check for updates every day. I think, (hope), this case is moving right along. And I try not to blame LE for certain things because I doubt they've ever had to deal with a bunch of liars of this magnitude. This is not normal. Honestly, I think LE knows almost exactly what happened and my guess is that they are holding out for a body. poor baby. I truly think LE is going to solve this case and arrest whoever is responsible JMO..

 

[Chablis]

I dont believe her body was moved from the water, I find that absurd, as soon as 911 was called all the families were under surveillance, imo.

Ron says, shes prob with them gators, they roll and burrow, well, shes not in the water, but he would like everyone to believe that. He alone knows where she is and I am sure its a place he hunted or mud bogged, or took his lady loves for a truck ride down a path for whatever reasons. jmo

 

[Emeralgem]

I dont believe her body was moved from the water, I find that absurd, as soon as 911 was called all the families were under surveillance, imo.

Ron says, shes prob with them gators, they roll and burrow, well, shes not in the water, but he would like everyone to believe that. He alone knows where she is and I am sure its a place he hunted or mud bogged, or took his lady loves for a truck ride down a path for whatever reasons. jmo

I suspect IF she was placed in the water by Tommy and/or cousin Jo someone in Ron C family moved her to another location before that 911 call was made...IMO that phone call wasn't made until Ron C and his family had made arrangements to take care of Haleigh's remains and those arrangements had been carried out......JMHO

 

[Chablis]

I suspect IF she was placed in the water by Tommy and/or cousin Jo someone in Ron C family moved her to another location before that 911 call was made...IMO that phone call wasn't made until Ron C and his family had made arrangements to take care of Haleigh's remains and those arrangements had been carried out......JMHO

I hear ya, but I just think Ron is the type who had burial spots already planned, just in case because hes crazy, imo. Water would have been to risky unless they know about some hidden cove no one would think to look.

 

[lonetraveler]

I suspect IF she was placed in the water by Tommy and/or cousin Jo someone in Ron C family moved her to another location before that 911 call was made...IMO that phone call wasn't made until Ron C and his family had made arrangements to take care of Haleigh's remains and those arrangements had been carried out......JMHO

One of the many theories I have entertained as to how the Croslins were involved is that Ron offered the machine gun and drugs as payment for a "job" he wanted Tommy to do for him. I think that is truly the reason he called Tommy that night. Ron may have made a deal with Tommy that if he would pick up a package and drop it off at a certain dock, that he could have the machine gun as payment. Tommy got Joe or was it Timmy? involved by asking him to pick him up in the van and then off to the MH they went, only to find that Ron had hid the gun and would only tell them where it was when the "job" was done. Either Haleigh's dead body was picked up at the MH or picked up at the dumpster and then delivered to the dock as instructed. Only Ron decided to retrieve the gun from its hiding place and shaft the Croslins over the deal. The machine gun was handed over to a relative of Ron's for safe keeping and later on turned over to LE by the relative. Part of Tommy's story was that he saw a "dead Haleigh" that night. Maybe Tommy and (Joe or Timmy??) didn't realize what the "job" entailed until they were right in the middle of it? It was a good plan actually, Ron harms Haleigh, she dies, he moves the body to a temporary place for pickup and makes the "deal" for someone to do the "Job" and those someones are the ideal people for LE to suspect. He probably also had Tommy pick up Misty to bring her over to the MH so that she could be instructed to make the 911 call. Yep, his mama was right, he is real intelligent............:floorlaugh:

 

[Emeralgem]

I hear ya, but I just think Ron is the type who had burial spots already planned, just in case because hes crazy, imo. Water would have been to risky unless they know about some hidden cove no one would think to look.

Chablis, I have never believed her resting place is in the St. Johns River only that Ron C could have instructed Tommy and Jo to take her to the dock..To be honest, I'm not certain the dock story isn't just another red herring..
One would think LE would have made certain the story was true before searching there though, but who knows when it comes to PCSO..JMHO

ETA.. I've looked everywhere and can't find it but I would love to listen to Tommy's coversation with his mother again.. The one pertaining to that search at the dock and the Shell Harbor area......

 

[dodie20]

One of the many theories I have entertained as to how the Croslins were involved is that Ron offered the machine gun and drugs as payment for a "job" he wanted Tommy to do for him. I think that is truly the reason he called Tommy that night. Ron may have made a deal with Tommy that if he would pick up a package and drop it off at a certain dock, that he could have the machine gun as payment. Tommy got Joe or was it Timmy? involved by asking him to pick him up in the van and then off to the MH they went, only to find that Ron had hid the gun and would only tell them where it was when the "job" was done. Either Haleigh's dead body was picked up at the MH or picked up at the dumpster and then delivered to the dock as instructed. Only Ron decided to retrieve the gun from its hiding place and shaft the Croslins over the deal. The machine gun was handed over to a relative of Ron's for safe keeping and later on turned over to LE by the relative. Part of Tommy's story was that he saw a "dead Haleigh" that night. Maybe Tommy and (Joe or Timmy??) didn't realize what the "job" entailed until they were right in the middle of it? It was a good plan actually, Ron harms Haleigh, she dies, he moves the body to a temporary place for pickup and makes the "deal" for someone to do the "Job" and those someones are the ideal people for LE to suspect. He probably also had Tommy pick up Misty to bring her over to the MH so that she could be instructed to make the 911 call. Yep, his mama was right, he is real intelligent............:floorlaugh:

Awhile back, I considered theories where each of the major players was the perp. My Ron theory was nothing like this. He simply took care of everything and blamed Tommy and JO of taking Haleigh while stealing his gun or drugs. They knew they'd been in the house, up to no good, so they remained quiet about his accusations...thinking #1, they'd get in serious trouble for gun theft, and #2, they couldn't prove the truth...their word against Ron's and probably Misty's. But as the years go by, this doesn't seem likely. Tommy himself has said he was in the house for a lot worse reasons than simple theft. JMO.

 

[lonetraveler]

Chablis, I have never believed her resting place is in the St. Johns River only that Ron C could have instructed Tommy and Jo to take her to the dock..To be honest, I'm not certain the dock story isn't just another red herring..
One would think LE would have made certain the story was true before searching there though, but who knows when it comes to PCSO..JMHO

ETA.. I've looked everywhere and can't find it but I would love to listen to Tommy's coversation with his mother again.. The one pertaining to that search at the dock and the Shell Harbor area......

I've been searching too EM. I seem to remember that Tommy said that he never saw Joe throw Haleigh into the river and he never heard a splash but that Joe came back without Haleigh. I have not been successful in finding this information tonight. It's driving me nuts.:banghead: I know I read it somewhere...........dang it.

 

[dodie20]

Chablis, I have never believed her resting place is in the St. Johns River only that Ron C could have instructed Tommy and Jo to take her to the dock..To be honest, I'm not certain the dock story isn't just another red herring..
One would think LE would have made certain the story was true before searching there though, but who knows when it comes to PCSO..JMHO

ETA.. I've looked everywhere and can't find it but I would love to listen to Tommy's coversation with his mother again.. The one pertaining to that search at the dock and the Shell Harbor area......

I read a chilling article the other day about a little girl named Andrea Gonzalez. Her step mother confessed to 'accidentally' scalding her to death and then wrapping her body in trash bags. She said she then tied a concrete block to the wrapped body and dropped it off of a bridge and into a lake. This happened in the 90's and her body has never been found. She and her husband served about 2 years in the pen. Where do people come up with these sick ideas to just throw kids away like garbage? Anyway, what struck me besides the similarities to Tommy's story, is that the body has never been found. sigh.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Think I've got what you guys( Emeralgem and lonetraveler)have been searching for.. Atleast the full and complete transcript of the phonecall with Lisa and Tommy and Shell Harbor including all the details about Lisa asking him why she couldnt go over the house by Shell Harbor and asks Tommy if that's where something happened to Haleigh at..
It's the full 14 page transcript of this jailhouse call but being halfway down page 6 thru page 10 is where you'll find what I believe it is that you are looking for.. Here's the link to the PDF transcript:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9319&d=1274553112

Scroll to mid page of 6 and the specifics are page6-page 10..


Hope that Helps!

 

[SmoothOperator]

Hi dodie! Was just wondering what region this took place with Andrea Gonzales? What the body of water was like(I.e was it similar to St. John's in that it's known to have alligators) or was it a completely different area or region of the country?
Am just curious as I believe the only reason we will never have remains of Haleigh found is due to the specific area and body of water that she was disposed of in.. Meaning that whether it was immediately, soon thereafter, or even months after her body was weighted down and put in St. John's I believe that at some point it was alligator(s) that permanently destroyed what there was left of Haleigh's little remains(dependent on whether they immediately or much later did so would determine how much of her remains and what condition they were in).. Which given She was such a tiny little girl to begin with there truly was not very much for an alligator to have to thoroughly and permanently dispose of her little remains regardless of whether it was immediate or months later..

I know that it's been discussed many times over that possibly cinder block(s) and rope(possibly even yellow rope) were discovered during that Shell Harbor search last April.. And I'm not sure if we'll ever know for certain if this was actually found or not.. It does seem to me that if it were true that these two items were found that it would in many ways atleast corroborate a tiny part of the confession/claims of Misty and/or Tommy about Haleigh being tied to a cinderblock with yellow rope and thrown off the boat dock..*
But in the grand scheme Of things that tiny bit that happened to match just wasn't enough for LE to do anything with when it was combined with so many lies and half truths of Misty/Tommy with them both leaving out their roles in the crimes that took place..

IMO I do believe that what we know is very much laced with many, many grains and kernels of truth and that one of those truths is that Haleigh was tied to a cinder block and thrown off of the boat dock.. It's just by who and who was present and complicit in the entire criminal acts is very hard to discern and know for certain(as in to have proof to back it up due to none of their word being worth even a single grain of salt).. It's for those reasons that Haleighs case goes unresolved.. Very very frustrating when I feel there is so much that LE knows was what occurred but it all boils down to what can be prosecuted successfully in a court of law with a jury of their peers(and we all just saw what happened for poor Caylee.. Can you imagine the doubt that there would be with all of this cast of characters lies put on display for a jury).. It just isn't there in terms of evidence and credibility of ANYONE that would be testifying for the state.. Therefor LE and the DA know that they cannot make a charge stick on those that they know are responsible.. Again resulting in Haleighs case continuing to go unresolved..

I sadly am very skeptical at this point in time because I truly cannot come up with a scenario that would or even could stand half a chance at successfully prosecuting those responsible in Haleigh's case.. Not when the hard evidence has long since been gone in speaking of Haleigh's remains nor in speaking of those involved in and around her entire case NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY ONE'S word WOULD HOLD UP IN A COURT OF LAW EVEN IF ONE OR MORE SHOULD HAPPEN TO CHOOSE TO COME OUT WITH THE TRUTH THAT OCCURRED.. there is nothing left to corroborate what was done to Haleigh *except one's testimony of what they witnessed or were told occurred by the murderer themselves.. Without a shred of evidence to back up the non credible witness's worthless word.. It just all ends in the same.. No justice for Haleigh!! And that's just not good enough!!!

Sorry to have rambled on..

Am curious to know what area and type of water that Andrea Gonzales was disposed of in??

TIA..

 

[Dr. Know?]

Thanks Smooth. I thought in that call Lisa says to Tommy she heard something about him and Misty sitting on the couch and Tommy shhh's her up real quick. Guess it was another call.

 

[dodie20]

Hi dodie! Was just wondering what region this took place with Andrea Gonzales? What the body of water was like(I.e was it similar to St. John's in that it's known to have alligators) or was it a completely different area or region of the country?
Am just curious as I believe the only reason we will never have remains of Haleigh found is due to the specific area and body of water that she was disposed of in.. Meaning that whether it was immediately, soon thereafter, or even months after her body was weighted down and put in St. John's I believe that at some point it was alligator(s) that permanently destroyed what there was left of Haleigh's little remains(dependent on whether they immediately or much later did so would determine how much of her remains and what condition they were in).. Which given She was such a tiny little girl to begin with there truly was not very much for an alligator to have to thoroughly and permanently dispose of her little remains regardless of whether it was immediate or months later..

I know that it's been discussed many times over that possibly cinder block(s) and rope(possibly even yellow rope) were discovered during that Shell Harbor search last April.. And I'm not sure if we'll ever know for certain if this was actually found or not.. It does seem to me that if it were true that these two items were found that it would in many ways atleast corroborate a tiny part of the confession/claims of Misty and/or Tommy about Haleigh being tied to a cinderblock with yellow rope and thrown off the boat dock..*
But in the grand scheme Of things that tiny bit that happened to match just wasn't enough for LE to do anything with when it was combined with so many lies and half truths of Misty/Tommy with them both leaving out their roles in the crimes that took place..

IMO I do believe that what we know is very much laced with many, many grains and kernels of truth and that one of those truths is that Haleigh was tied to a cinder block and thrown off of the boat dock.. It's just by who and who was present and complicit in the entire criminal acts is very hard to discern and know for certain(as in to have proof to back it up due to none of their word being worth even a single grain of salt).. It's for those reasons that Haleighs case goes unresolved.. Very very frustrating when I feel there is so much that LE knows was what occurred but it all boils down to what can be prosecuted successfully in a court of law with a jury of their peers(and we all just saw what happened for poor Caylee.. Can you imagine the doubt that there would be with all of this cast of characters lies put on display for a jury).. It just isn't there in terms of evidence and credibility of ANYONE that would be testifying for the state.. Therefor LE and the DA know that they cannot make a charge stick on those that they know are responsible.. Again resulting in Haleighs case continuing to go unresolved..

I sadly am very skeptical at this point in time because I truly cannot come up with a scenario that would or even could stand half a chance at successfully prosecuting those responsible in Haleigh's case.. Not when the hard evidence has long since been gone in speaking of Haleigh's remains nor in speaking of those involved in and around her entire case NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY ONE'S word WOULD HOLD UP IN A COURT OF LAW EVEN IF ONE OR MORE SHOULD HAPPEN TO CHOOSE TO COME OUT WITH THE TRUTH THAT OCCURRED.. there is nothing left to corroborate what was done to Haleigh *except one's testimony of what they witnessed or were told occurred by the murderer themselves.. Without a shred of evidence to back up the non credible witness's worthless word.. It just all ends in the same.. No justice for Haleigh!! And that's just not good enough!!!

Sorry to have rambled on..

Am curious to know what area and type of water that Andrea Gonzales was disposed of in??

TIA..

It was a lake in Alabama. The step mother confessed about a year after the little girl died, so it didn't take long for the water to to work its ravages. I'm not sure if there were alligators in the lake, but I guess it's possible.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I suspect IF she was placed in the water by Tommy and/or cousin Jo someone in Ron C family moved her to another location before that 911 call was made...IMO that phone call wasn't made until Ron C and his family had made arrangements to take care of Haleigh's remains and those arrangements had been carried out......JMHO

Emeral, reading this thread is an excellent example of how rumors get started isn't it? No where did you even mention GGS out in the river in a boat and someone comes along trying to be sarcastic..cute, funny or whatever it was supposed to be :waiting: ..and before you know it, your words have been twisted and repeated ..and for what purpose? I still firmly believe that Ron and Misty are absolutely responsible for whatever happened to poor Haleigh..GGMS, I just don't know..TN, knows now what happened (Ron's version anyway) ..and most likely did know very shortly after it happened..Jo had nothing to do with it..and Tommy has only has some knowledge if anything at all..MOO

 

[Pondering Mind]

I hear ya, but I just think Ron is the type who had burial spots already planned, just in case because hes crazy, imo. Water would have been to risky unless they know about some hidden cove no one would think to look.

unless it's true that Ron supposedly pointed out a body of water off of a bridge once and told someone (cant's remember who..maybe Misty?) that it would be a good place to dispose of a body..plus we don't have any idea how much time someone would have had to dispose of her if it wasn't premeditated since we don't know what time Haleigh REALLY disappeared/was killed..

 

[Flossie JMO]

Emeral, reading this thread is an excellent example of how rumors get started isn't it? No where did you even mention GGS out in the river in a boat and someone comes along trying to be sarcastic..cute, funny or whatever it was supposed to be :waiting: ..and before you know it, your words have been twisted and repeated ..and for what purpose? I still firmly believe that Ron and Misty are absolutely responsible for whatever happened to poor Haleigh..GGMS, I just don't know..TN, knows now what happened (Ron's version anyway) ..and most likely did know very shortly after it happened..Jo had nothing to do with it..and Tommy has only has some knowledge if anything at all..MOO

bbm, I agree, imo Joe was not involved. Ron and TN and great Granny also not involved in any way imo. Tommy absolutely involved, imo, and SA said that iirc

 

[Flossie JMO]

unless it's true that Ron supposedly pointed out a body of water off of a bridge once and told someone (cant's remember who..maybe Misty?) that it would be a good place to dispose of a body..plus we don't have any idea how much time someone would have had to dispose of her if it wasn't premeditated since we don't know what time Haleigh REALLY disappeared/was killed..

alleged comments from Amber Brooks, we have not heard her speak

 

[Emeralgem]

Emeral, reading this thread is an excellent example of how rumors get started isn't it? No where did you even mention GGS out in the river in a boat and someone comes along trying to be sarcastic..cute, funny or whatever it was supposed to be :waiting: ..and before you know it, your words have been twisted and repeated ..and for what purpose? I still firmly believe that Ron and Misty are absolutely responsible for whatever happened to poor Haleigh..GGMS, I just don't know..TN, knows now what happened (Ron's version anyway) ..and most likely did know very shortly after it happened..Jo had nothing to do with it..and Tommy has only has some knowledge if anything at all..MOO

IMHO..GGMS never saw Haleigh alive and well on the 9th of February eating dinner on a screened in porch at dark cold thirty like she claims she did so IMHO the ONLY reason she would lie would be IF she was covering for Ron C. Is it possible Ron C and/or his mama lied to GGMS about what really happened? Could very well be but she knows she lied about seeing Haleigh that night and IMHO she did that to provide an alibi for her grandson...So she knows Haleigh is deceased and has known since the beginning...Was she actively and physically involved in moving Haleigh from one location to another that night? I doubt it..Not saying she wasn't/isn't capable... just saying...I don't suspect she or any of the women were involved in carrying out that task..JMHO