The Doe Network, Part 2: Who is Princess Blue?

[Jaded]

I wish I had more time to help, I don't mean to be "appointing jobs" to anyone...just a suggestion. Researchers...you may want to check small and tiny town newspapers for write-ups concerning all these UIDs. Many times they get much more attn. in a small town paper bec. it is shocking and "big news," and bad as that sounds. Unfortunately, Houston is so enormous, which means it is crime-ridden, that subject matter such as these comes and goes and may not get as much press.

Have a great day everyone. You are such hard workers!

I actually looked for a local Manvel paper yesterday and had no luck. It was a quick cursory search before I went to work. I'll look into this though on Friday and thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Jaded]

And you have a great night at work, poor thing. The overnight shift is for the birds. I'd rather work days and stay up all night watching court TV :dance:

MG

I JUST got home. I only got 4 hours of sleep yesterday so I'm suffering right about now. I'm looking forward to my days off. SLEEP!!n and work on our project.

 

[richandfamous]

I wish I had more time to help, I don't mean to be "appointing jobs" to anyone...just a suggestion. Researchers...you may want to check small and tiny town newspapers for write-ups concerning all these UIDs. Many times they get much more attn. in a small town paper bec. it is shocking and "big news," and bad as that sounds. Unfortunately, Houston is so enormous, which means it is crime-ridden, that subject matter such as these comes and goes and may not get as much press.

Have a great day everyone. You are such hard workers!

http://www.angeloueconomics.com/Waller_000.htm

Looking for more county news outlets in the area:
http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/localProx.php?local=290986&locTGroup=Newspapers&searchStr=&parseMethod=any&dist=30&distLbl=miles&sec=0&Submit=Search
Brenham Banner Press, Washington County, TX
Katy Times, Harris County, TX
Rosenberg Herald Coaster, Fort Bend County, TX
Sealy News, Austin County, TX
Tomball Magnolia Tribune News, Harris County, TX
Sealy News, Austin County, TX
Tomball Magnolia Tribune News, Harris County, TX
http://www.mondotimes.com/1/world/us/43/5440/16504

 

[LionRun]

I JUST got home. I only got 4 hours of sleep yesterday so I'm suffering right about now. I'm looking forward to my days off. SLEEP!!n and work on our project.

Awe, Jaded. I hope you can get some rest soon.

Also, there are and I believe there were small town papers for neighboring towns. I think sloane has a very good point. Sad, as it is, many cases do not get publicity in big cases. And, there are a bunch of similar cases. If we can tie them together we may learn more about where Princess might have come from or more about her killer, or even mor about her.

I have a feeling that the UID female Princess Doe found on CR 5 in Manvel, nude, about 5' tall, wrapped in a bedspread in 1993 might very well be related(speculation only). At one point I found a bunch of local newspapers online near to Manvel and in Brazoria County, and I accidentally erased them! Then I forgot how I found them! One was in Angelton or Angeltown, I think.

Lion

 

[Kymistry35]

Just wanted to say that I am going to call the toxicology lab in Washington back today, to see if I can get some answers about the bone marrow and drug testing. If I can't get any answers there, I may call a few other places and see what I can do.

ETA: http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/usstate/ustexas.htm here is a link to all online Texas newspapers.

 

[LionRun]

By the way, to anyone who can remember, was the previous guess as to P.Blue's weight of 175# ever listed on the MPCH? I have a printout of the posting dating back to March 7, '07, and it was listed as "Unknown" at that time as well. When did it change, or did it?

Thanks all,

Ahhh. Thank you sloane. I may have been mistaken all along. I wonder if the information stating that Princess Blue's weight may have been about 175 didn't come from the newspaper article in September, 2006. Perhaps then it was put up on the doenetwork.org, and we got it from there. Princess's weight estimate of 175LB may never have been on the TX dps site.


In any event, we know now that because the weight was based on the ring, it is probably not accurate as ring size is only loosely correlated with weight--at best. Plus, we don't know if Princess wore a smaller, "guard" ring to keep the HS ring on. I would still like to know the other ring sizes and on what fingers each ring was found on. Perhaps at this point, equally important might be how any rings still remained on any of her fingers.


Sloane, Sgt. Coffman emailed me to give me the site info I think to help us in our research. He said to please feel free to share the info and he thanked me for my interest. I in turn thanked him and explained that the site he was referring to was one of, "ours", created by RKnowley who is a member of the group that I am working with. I gave him a 2 or 3 paragraph update on what we are doing and how we are coming along.


Lion

 

[LionRun]

Just wanted to say that I am going to call the toxicology lab in Washington back today, to see if I can get some answers about the bone marrow and drug testing. If I can't get any answers there, I may call a few other places and see what I can do.

ETA: http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/usstate/ustexas.htm here is a link to all online Texas newspapers.

Thank you teons:blowkiss:!

Lion

 

[LionRun]

Good morning to all!
May i add WALLER Co. to this list?
Let me tell you about another case:

In March of 1997, the skeletal remains of a Hispanic (this time, for sure!!) or mixed Hispanic/ Caucasian young woman were discovered on private property in the Monaville area of Waller Co., Texas. Its location is near Irons Creek and FM359. There was no clothing or jewelry; she was wrapped in a mattress cover. She was believed to have been out there at least two years. She was between 5'0" - 5'4" tall, and would have weighed approx. 100-140 lbs. in life. She was between 23-35 yrs. old. She was believed to have been right-handed and had numerous dental restorations and dental crowding. DNA is on file w. the Nat'l. MP Database.

Another similar case to all the other UIDs in the general vicinity. Waller Co. borders Harris Co. just to the west.

Thanks,

Thank you sloane:blowkiss:! Yes, Waller County should probably on that list, too.

Lion

 

[LionRun]

http://www.angeloueconomics.com/Waller_000.htm

Looking for more county news outlets in the area:
http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/loca...any&dist=30&distLbl=miles&sec=0&Submit=Search
Brenham Banner Press, Washington County, TX
Katy Times, Harris County, TX
Rosenberg Herald Coaster, Fort Bend County, TX
Sealy News, Austin County, TX
Tomball Magnolia Tribune News, Harris County, TX
Sealy News, Austin County, TX
Tomball Magnolia Tribune News, Harris County, TX
http://www.mondotimes.com/1/world/us/43/5440/16504

Geesh, rich! How do you do this so fast? You are an incredible researcher of all things online!

Lion

 

[richandfamous]

Geesh, rich! How do you do this so fast? You are an incredible researcher of all things online!

Lion

Well, thank you Lion! And your organizational skills and tenacity in investigation and attention to detail and your other related skills have made it possible that Princess Blue will eventually go home to her loved ones!


ps: Hope you didn't have any storm damage last night.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

These are all the counties that I have contacted LE in:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=ppBnEW1OaxaWn74emU2SiEg

Good morning to all!
May i add WALLER Co. to this list?
Let me tell you about another case:

In March of 1997, the skeletal remains of a Hispanic (this time, for sure!!) or mixed Hispanic/ Caucasian young woman were discovered on private property in the Monaville area of Waller Co., Texas. Its location is near Irons Creek and FM359. There was no clothing or jewelry; she was wrapped in a mattress cover. She was believed to have been out there at least two years. She was between 5'0" - 5'4" tall, and would have weighed approx. 100-140 lbs. in life. She was between 23-35 yrs. old. She was believed to have been right-handed and had numerous dental restorations and dental crowding. DNA is on file w. the Nat'l. MP Database.

Another similar case to all the other UIDs in the general vicinity. Waller Co. borders Harris Co. just to the west.

Thanks,

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

I am bringing this over from the original Doe Network thread.

How has this changed now to an unknown weight? Have you had the chance to talk to the person at TMPCH and asked WHY the weight was changed to unknown when before they estimated 175 lbs and based on other factors besides the ring?


In post # 82 Lion says:

Also, I spoke with the person at the Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse in charge of Princess Blue's case. She said that although LE has and is still trying to contact everyone from the graduating class of 1975, she doesn't know if they have reached all of them. She said that LE has obtained pictures and notes from 1975 from the school; but, I was unclear as to whether or not they actually have a copy of the year book.

She said that out of respect for the family members(hopefully they will be found), they intentionally did not state the manner of death. However, she said that she has no notes about clothing found with Princess Blue's remains, and that would most likely have been posted to help ID her if clothes were found with her remains. I speculate that she may have been found with no clothes. We can speculate there may have been foul play because of this and the fact that she was found in a place, full of debris and considered a dump site for bodies.

She also confirmed our belief that the ring is a ladies ring. Good, at least that is finally out of the way, lol. She does not know if the ring was sized up or sized down; however, I believe it was most likely sized up.

She said emphatically that her weight was determined by other factors other than the ring size. She didn't specify what factors; but, connections on the bones for tendons are larger, the heavier a person is, and/or the more strength training exercises they do. There are several ways to estimate weight based on skeletal remains. So, I think we can assume her weight was somewhere around 175 at death.

 

[sloane]

Hi all-
Just wanted to let your know the rsults of my discussion w/ a for. anthro. (~35 yrs. in the field!)
In short, unfortunately, there is "no credible evidence" in the prediction of the decay rate of bone marrow...DARN!! Sorry guys. Yes, research has been done in this field, but results are "inconclusive," thus far. I told him everything I know about the case, the scene, the timeline and her for. anthrop. profile, but he said there just really isn;t a clear formula to say, "Okay, she was out in this temp., this humidity, under / in a tire, she's this age range and size, so she must have been out there for (example) 5 years." It's just not like that. He says it is probable that marrow can withstand many years though, esp. if not disturbed by scavenging. As horrible as it sounds, that is a part of the human body that some scavengers go for - the marrow. So MAYBE, just maybe she wasn't out there since the seventies.

I'm interested to see what other experts have to say. So teons, and others who were going to ask ppl., please DO post your findings.

thanks,

 

[sloane]

Respectfully, in response to post #232, what the person at TX MPCH said was that weight was determined by more methods than just jewelry size, not nec. that THIS CASE's weight had been so determined. I don't think the results of the (more recent ) anth. profile had been received by them yet...? That's why I was wondering if their site ever posted the weight as 175# at all. My copy from 3-3-07 has it as Unknown...
Who knows?

But, RKnowley, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "bringing it over." Were these questions posed on the Doe Network by someone?
Sorry if i'm missing something obvious.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Is this anthropologist you talked to the "Body Farm" guy? Dr. Bill Bass?

Hi all-
Just wanted to let your know the rsults of my discussion w/ a for. anthro. (~35 yrs. in the field!)
In short, unfortunately, there is "no credible evidence" in the prediction of the decay rate of bone marrow...DARN!! Sorry guys. Yes, research has been done in this field, but results are "inconclusive," thus far. I told him everything I know about the case, the scene, the timeline and her for. anthrop. profile, but he said there just really isn;t a clear formula to say, "Okay, she was out in this temp., this humidity, under / in a tire, she's this age range and size, so she must have been out there for (example) 5 years." It's just not like that. He says it is probable that marrow can withstand many years though, esp. if not disturbed by scavenging. As horrible as it sounds, that is a part of the human body that some scavengers go for - the marrow. So MAYBE, just maybe she wasn't out there since the seventies.

I'm interested to see what other experts have to say. So teons, and others who were going to ask ppl., please DO post your findings.

thanks,

 

[sloane]

Thank you, richandfamous and teonspaleprincess for ALLLLL of those links to smaller newspapers. You are much quicker than I am! I had to laugh that one of them has "Po-dunk", (or something similar) in the address!!

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

sloane,

All I know is that Lion had talked to a person at the TXMPCH and that the person told her (Lion) that her (Princess Blue's)weight had been determined by other factors besides the HS class ring.

ETA: Lion specifically called TXMPCH to ask if Princess Blue's weight was determined based only on the size of the HS ring and this person said that it was not just based on the ring size but other factors also.

bring it over= I brought post #82 from the original discussion thread (Doe Network) here at websleuths. We closed that thread because it was getting too long and started a new one (This one is, Doe Network part 2)

Respectfully, in response to post #232, what the person at TX MPCH said was that weight was determined by more methods than just jewelry size, not nec. that THIS CASE's weight had been so determined. I don't think the results of the (more recent ) anth. profile had been received by them yet...? That's why I was wondering if their site ever posted the weight as 175# at all. My copy from 3-3-07 has it as Unknown...
Who knows?

But, RKnowley, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "bringing it over." Were these questions posed on the Doe Network by someone?
Sorry if i'm missing something obvious.

 

[LionRun]

These are all the counties that I have contacted LE in:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=ppBnEW1OaxaWn74emU2SiEg

Holy sheet, RKnowley! This is excellent! This may prompt one or more of them to take a look and possibly find a connection either to Princess or in cases they have where the circumstances were similar. I imagine that at least some of the LE individuals on your extensive list may have inherited cases with possible similarities. I am hoping that your contact with them might give at least some of their cold cases new life.

Sometimes it can depend on the money and resources that they can devote, though. And, sometimes they would choose to do more if only they had more money and more resources.

Thank you RKnowley so very much for all of the incredible work that you do:blowkiss:.

Lion

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Lion, I'm not holding my breath on LE looking into their old cases. They probably don't have the man power or funds to do so but it was worth at least getting it out there and seeing where it goes.

Holy sheet, RKnowley! This is excellent! This may prompt one or more of them to take a look and possibly find a connection either to Princess or in cases they have where the circumstances were similar. I imagine that at least some of the LE individuals on your extensive list may have inherited cases with possible similarities. I am hoping that your contact with them might give at least some of their cold cases new life.

Sometimes it can depend on the money and resources that they can devote, though. And, sometimes they would choose to do more if only they had more money and more resources.

Thank you RKnowley so very much for all of the incredible work that you do:blowkiss:.

Lion

 

[LionRun]

Funny you should ask, bec. the one I spoke with is the head of the NEW "Body Ranch" that is starting construction this spring in Central Texas!!
It will be over 10 acres, and also serve as a DMORT center in the case of disasters such as hurricanes, plane crashes etc. They will also train LE, and do LOTS of forensic research on human remains.

Respectfully,

Ahhh! That is who I was trying to find to talk with! You beat me to it, sloane:!

OT: There have been local media reports focusing on conflict with the locals who do not want a body farm near them. I hope it goes through. I believe they will be very careful as professionals to watch for any chance of contamination or disease. We need another good body farm, as icky as it sounds!

ETA: It will be excellent and surely beneficial to train LE and to dually serve as a DMORT Center in the case of a disaster, too. This, to me is great news, and I will continue to follow local reports on how it is all coming along.

Lion