The "Parties" and Other Neighbor Accounts

[songline]

:waitasec: Good grief, Songline. You don't need to be "sorry" about anything, because we agree with you in this regard: NO ONE HEAR IS SAYING PG HAS A HEART!!! AND NO ONE HERE IS SAYING PG HAD A CHANGE OF HEART! AND NO ONE HERE IS TAKING HIS SIDE OR COMING TO BAT FOR HIM!
Forgive me for being presumptuous, but I'm pretty sure I'm speaking for most everyone here, but you seem to think we're all on a different page than you are.

The only one saying there was a change of heart is PG himself. And THAT's what we're talking about here. We are talking about what PG may have been thinking and why. Like his self justification of his actions. And this guy's mind, is waaaaaaaay different than any of ours. He has no conscience; he is a psychopath. He will not see ANYTHING in the same light as we do. Maybe this thread should be moved over the the pyschological aspects thread. Just a thought.

BillyLee. I am glad to hear all of that.
I can however tell you that I have had several PMs and there are people who have agreed with what I sensed.

Especially when reading stuff like - the defense can say that JC showed up in his house, or that cold water showers is....blahh blahhh blahh. I do not need to repeat anymore of those type of considerations or thoughts this is sufficient.

I know that most of us here are only about suppoert for JC.

 

[cindysue]

And this guy's mind, is waaaaaaaay different than any of ours. He has no conscience; he is a psychopath. He will not see ANYTHING in the same light as we do. Maybe this thread should be moved over the the pyschological aspects thread. Just a thought.

This is a good point, when you say he might have soften and given gifts etc. The fact that he is a psychopath and has no conscience is something i think everyone would probably agree on. As far as i know he could only pretend to have feelings, they cant really feel on the same level as normal people.


psy·cho·path audio (sk-pth) KEY

NOUN:

A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

 

[Natal]

This is a good point, when you say he might have soften and given gifts etc. The fact that he is a psychopath and has no conscience is something i think everyone would probably agree on. As far as i know he could only pretend to have feelings, they cant really feel on the same level as normal people.


psy·cho·path audio (sk-pth) KEY

NOUN:

A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

Psycopaths do have feelings, just like the rest of us, what they can't do is empathize with other people. That is, they can't place themselves in someone else's shoes and see/feel the situation as that person would have felt it, they can only see it as they would have seen it. Psycopathic tendencies are common, most people who have them are not violent criminals.

 

[kbl8201]

BillyLee. I am glad to hear all of that.
I can however tell you that I have had several PMs and there are people who have agreed with what I sensed.

Especially when reading stuff like - the defense can say that JC showed up in his house, or that cold water showers is....blahh blahhh blahh. I do not need to repeat anymore of those type of considerations or thoughts this is sufficient.

I know that most of us here are only about suppoert for JC.

from what i heard tehre were kids who say the kidnapping too. im sure they could verify what he saw?
the part about her just showing up at that sickos house willilngly is just beyond stupid.

 

[songline]

from what i heard tehre were kids who say the kidnapping too. im sure they could verify what he saw?
the part about her just showing up at that sickos house willilngly is just beyond stupid.

BBM :doh:
Yours is a kind description of it. I would not be as kind as you are.
To my ears that sounds like someone who could have some
skeltons of thier own. :snooty:
Because I can not imagin how else one can come up with that chit?

 

[songline]

Psychopaths do have feelings, just like the rest of us, what they can't do is empathize with other people. That is, they can't place themselves in someone else's shoes and see/feel the situation as that person would have felt it, they can only see it as they would have seen it. Psycopathic tendencies are common, most people who have them are not violent criminals.

NO! and they do not belong in the same sentence with "the rest of us".
It is a mental Health Disorder unlike the rest of us.
The psychopath is defined by an uninhibited gratification in criminal, sexual, or aggressive impulses
and the inability to learn from past mistakes. Individuals with this disorder gain satisfaction through
their antisocial behavior and lack remorse for their actions.
UNLIKE the rest of us.

They may feel, cold, hungry....anger, or the need to go to the bathroom.
but not CIVILIZD feelings more like what would be associated with the animal kingdom.

 

[cindysue]

Psycopaths do have feelings, just like the rest of us, what they can't do is empathize with other people. That is, they can't place themselves in someone else's shoes and see/feel the situation as that person would have felt it, they can only see it as they would have seen it. Psycopathic tendencies are common, most people who have them are not violent criminals.

To call a psychopath, "cold", would an understatement in my opinion. To call them cold would mean they have the emotion to be "cold". I think "robot" is the best word to describe them. Robots are detached and unfeeling. To further explain, Robert D Hare conducted a research in which he flash certain words that should evoke some emotion or uneasiness. To a psychopath the word "Tree" and "Rape" had the same effect, nothing.

There is only a estimate of about 1-2% of psychopaths in the world. Fortunately, a large amount of them are in our prisons. However, those are only the ones that slip up. A characteristic of a psychopath is that they are usually very intelligent and charming. They can fake emotions just as any one of us can fake an interest. We probably can't recognize one unless we were trained but even those who study psychopaths have been tricked by one. 1-2% may not be a lot to you, but think about it. Ted Bundy, although only confessed to about 9 murders, he was linked to about 70 others. One psychopath can do a lot of damage. ...

Another article says this Cleckley's seminal hypothesis concerning the psychopath is that he suffers from a very real mental illness indeed: a profound and incurable affective deficit. If he really feels anything at all, they are emotions of only the shallowest kind. He does bizarre and self-destructive things because consequences that would fill the ordinary man with shame, self-loathing, and embarrassment simply do not affect the psychopath at all. What to others would be a disaster is to him merely a fleeting inconvenience.

(My point is that they fake emotions)

 

[flourish]

To call a psychopath, "cold", would an understatement in my opinion. To call them cold would mean they have the emotion to be "cold". I think "robot" is the best word to describe them. Robots are detached and unfeeling. To further explain, Robert D Hare conducted a research in which he flash certain words that should evoke some emotion or uneasiness. To a psychopath the word "Tree" and "Rape" had the same effect, nothing.

There is only a estimate of about 1-2% of psychopaths in the world. Fortunately, a large amount of them are in our prisons. However, those are only the ones that slip up. A characteristic of a psychopath is that they are usually very intelligent and charming. They can fake emotions just as any one of us can fake an interest. We probably can't recognize one unless we were trained but even those who study psychopaths have been tricked by one. 1-2% may not be a lot to you, but think about it. Ted Bundy, although only confessed to about 9 murders, he was linked to about 70 others. One psychopath can do a lot of damage. ...

My point is that they fake emotions,

Hi Cindysue, Thanks for offering us some more information! I sure appreciate it when folks like you provide expert names and such so that we can go do more research on our own. When someone just makes a statement as though it's fact, but doesn't provide any further information, it's difficult to find their information credible--I just end up viewing it as an opinion. So, again, thanks!

 

[SunnieRN]

Psycopaths do have feelings, just like the rest of us, what they can't do is empathize with other people. That is, they can't place themselves in someone else's shoes and see/feel the situation as that person would have felt it, they can only see it as they would have seen it. Psycopathic tendencies are common, most people who have them are not violent criminals.

I woul disagree with the last sentence in your post. Please read this Natal:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy[/ame]

I was trying to explain the difference between a psychotic person and a psychopath, but this does it better!!

 

[i.b.nora]

Dr. Robert Hare is very well known and respected in the world of psychopathy/sociopathy.
"To help professionals accurately diagnose the sociopath (also called a psychopath), Robert D. Hare, Ph.D., developed the Psychopathy Checklist."

There are numerous sources for this info. Here is just one:

Dr. Robert Hare's Symptoms of Psychopaths

 

[cindysue]

Dr. Robert Hare is very well known and respected in the world of psychopathy/sociopathy.
"To help professionals accurately diagnose the sociopath (also called a psychopath), Robert D. Hare, Ph.D., developed the Psychopathy Checklist."

There are numerous sources for this info. Here is just one:

Dr. Robert Hare's Symptoms of Psychopaths

Shallow emotions

Psychopaths seem to suffer a kind of emotional poverty that limits the range and depth of their feelings. While at times they appear cold and unemotional, they are prone to dramatic, shallow and short-lived displays of feeling. Careful observers are left with the impression that they are play-acting and that little is going on below the surface.

Laboratory experiments using biomedical recorders have shown that psychopaths lack the physiological responses normally associated with fear. The significance of this finding is that, for most people, the fear produced by threats of pain or punishment is an unpleasant emotion and a powerful motivator of behavior. Not so with psychopaths; they merrily plunge on, perhaps knowing what might happen but not really caring.

They just dont have the same feelings , if you knew one for a long time you would realize this, its very scarey to observe. I think they forgot one of the signs of the condition which is fearlessness.

 

[Natal]

To call a psychopath, "cold", would an understatement in my opinion. To call them cold would mean they have the emotion to be "cold". I think "robot" is the best word to describe them. Robots are detached and unfeeling. To further explain, Robert D Hare conducted a research in which he flash certain words that should evoke some emotion or uneasiness. To a psychopath the word "Tree" and "Rape" had the same effect, nothing.

There is only a estimate of about 1-2% of psychopaths in the world. Fortunately, a large amount of them are in our prisons. However, those are only the ones that slip up. A characteristic of a psychopath is that they are usually very intelligent and charming. They can fake emotions just as any one of us can fake an interest. We probably can't recognize one unless we were trained but even those who study psychopaths have been tricked by one. 1-2% may not be a lot to you, but think about it. Ted Bundy, although only confessed to about 9 murders, he was linked to about 70 others. One psychopath can do a lot of damage. ...

Another article says this Cleckley's seminal hypothesis concerning the psychopath is that he suffers from a very real mental illness indeed: a profound and incurable affective deficit. If he really feels anything at all, they are emotions of only the shallowest kind. He does bizarre and self-destructive things because consequences that would fill the ordinary man with shame, self-loathing, and embarrassment simply do not affect the psychopath at all. What to others would be a disaster is to him merely a fleeting inconvenience.

(My point is that they fake emotions)

A psycopath doesn't have a lack of emotions as much as a lack of empathy. It is a self centered view where other people are just props. A narcissist (which is similar in a way) on the other hand does have empathy, they just believe that their emotions are more important.

1-2% isnt "just a few" btw, it is about 20-30 million in the US alone, and that probably understates the number of folk in the grey area. The vast majority of those people have never been in prison.

 

[cindysue]

A psycopath doesn't have a lack of emotions as much as a lack of empathy.

wierd i dont know why the study says thissychopaths seem to suffer a kind of emotional poverty that limits the range and depth of their feelings. If the doctors or whatever studies them say that they have emotional poverty that means that its lacking .If you had financial poverty that would mean your lacking money...get it? I guess your trying to say that they have emotions, but my point was that they dont have emotions like the rest of us do. How can you read all these articles and disagree with that?:waitasec: Of course we know they lack empathy but they also have a screwed up brain process when it comes to emotions too.And according to what i read doctors arent even sure if they are really emotions or just imitations of them that they emulate.

Another article says this Cleckley's seminal hypothesis concerning the psychopath is that he suffers from a very real mental illness indeed: a profound and incurable affective deficit. If he really feels anything at all, they are emotions of only the shallowest kind

So if studies arent sure they really have emotions what makes you soooo positive your right?

 

[songline]

wierd i dont know why the study says thissychopaths seem to suffer a kind of emotional poverty that limits the range and depth of their feelings. If the doctors or whatever studies them say that they have emotional poverty that means that its lacking .If you had financial poverty that would mean your lacking money...get it? I guess your trying to say that they have emotions, but my point was that they dont have emotions like the rest of us do. How can you read all these articles and disagree with that?:waitasec: Of course we know they lack empathy but they also have a screwed up brain process when it comes to emotions too.And according to what i read doctors arent even sure if they are really emotions or just imitations of them that they emulate.



So if studies arent sure they really have emotions what makes you soooo positive your right?

It is so obvious to me that his position is not about the defense, as he claims.
Which happens to be many many years away, anyhow....
(Smart's case took 6 years to come up).
his position is IMO soooo about something else......:waitasec:

 

[human]

"A psycopath doesn't have a lack of emotions as much as a lack of empathy."
I am very disturbed about this and other posts by this person. When something just doesn't add up, there is a reason, and as a newbie, I am wondering what all of these posts are about? Very very strange IMO

 

[Natal]

wierd i dont know why the study says thissychopaths seem to suffer a kind of emotional poverty that limits the range and depth of their feelings. If the doctors or whatever studies them say that they have emotional poverty that means that its lacking .If you had financial poverty that would mean your lacking money...get it? I guess your trying to say that they have emotions, but my point was that they dont have emotions like the rest of us do. How can you read all these articles and disagree with that?:waitasec: Of course we know they lack empathy but they also have a screwed up brain process when it comes to emotions too.And according to what i read doctors arent even sure if they are really emotions or just imitations of them that they emulate.



So if studies arent sure they really have emotions what makes you soooo positive your right?

Think of psycology as a table, at the center you have normal, and at the far edges, or the corners, you have the extreme conditions. Most people will be inbetween. There is no plus/minus in any indicator, it is all relative, there are no absolutes in psychology. So you might be strongly empathic and another person may have weak empathy, but very very few have no empathy at all. The case studies that they use to define a clasic case of any condition usually lie at those extreme edges, but most people diagnosed with those conditions are inbetween. In the case of people with psychopathic tendencies, it is rare to find one with no empathy at all, usually they have at least some, and they definitely have emotions, but perhaps not the same as average people.

 

[human]

OK, the psychology table makes sense. But where is there any indication of empathy in PG? There are the stories of the first wife and the rape of Katie Callaway. Those are documented indications of his lack of empathy and total focus on his needs. And his incredible lack of understanding of anything human is exhibited by the fact that he asked Katie Callaway not to tell on him after being brutalized for hours. He was able to keep the mother of his children and his children in the backyard, but he by all appearances, lived in the house, as there is no indication of any room for him in the tents. And he kept Jaycee shackled for 3 1/2 years. I'm sure his mother was kept alive for her check and the ability to stay in the house, rather than for any level of love for her.

 

[SunnieRN]

Think of psycology as a table, at the center you have normal, and at the far edges, or the corners, you have the extreme conditions. Most people will be inbetween. There is no plus/minus in any indicator, it is all relative, there are no absolutes in psychology. So you might be strongly empathic and another person may have weak empathy, but very very few have no empathy at all. The case studies that they use to define a clasic case of any condition usually lie at those extreme edges, but most people diagnosed with those conditions are inbetween. In the case of people with psychopathic tendencies, it is rare to find one with no empathy at all, usually they have at least some, and they definitely have emotions, but perhaps not the same as average people.

Natal you are still in confusion over psychopaths vs psychotic/mentally ill people. The ref. articles tell a different story than your posts tell. You can rightly state there are no absolutes, but you still need to be aware of the differences between a psychopath and what constitutes the diagnosis. A psychopath has emotions that are related to himself only. He couldn't care less if his actions cause others pain, fear or death. That is not the norm for our society. Thank God MOST people fall closer to the "center of the table."

Here is the article I posted earlier and hopefully, posting it here will help you understand the points I am trying to make. If you are an expert in this field, it is time for you to post your credentials and let us know why your ideas differ from experts in the field!

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy[/ame] is where the article is found

Article:

Psychopathy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
"Psychopath" redirects here. For other uses, see Psychopath (disambiguation).
"Sociopath" redirects here. For other uses, see Sociopathy.
See also: Antisocial personality disorder and Dissocial personality disorder

Psychopathy (pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a psychological construct that describes chronic disregard for ethical principles and antisocial behavior.[3][4] The term is often used interchangeably with sociopathy.[5] This is a commonly made mistake. Sociopathy is no longer a correct term to use, and when it is used it actually refers to what is considered Antisocial Personality Disorder. Psychopaths are not diagnosed because there is no current diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV-TR. Instead, labeling a person a psychopath would be done through a forensic measurement such as the Hare PCLR-2, and would refer to the set of behavioral and emotional characteristics that person has (This would be similar to labeling someone an extrovert - they are not diagnosed as extroverts). In the ICD-10 diagnosis criteria, the terms antisocial/dissocial personality disorder are used.

The term is used as a definition in law, for example, "psychopathic personality disorder" under the Mental Health Act 1983 of the UK as well as to denote a severe condition often related to antisocial or dissocial personality disorder as defined by the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R).[6] The term "psychopathy" is often confused with psychotic disorders. It is estimated that approximately one percent of the general population are psychopaths.[7][8][9][10]

The psychopath is defined by an uninhibited gratification in criminal, sexual, or aggressive impulses and the inability to learn from past mistakes.[11][12][13] Individuals with this disorder gain satisfaction through their antisocial behavior and lack remorse for their actions.

Sociopathy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Sociopaths are unable to experience emotional responses for other people outside of their own personal interests. This is not to be confused with ideological or philosophical traits that share the same viewpoint from outside perception, instead it is the psychological inability to show emotion or caring for others. While a sociopath can feel emotion, it is (even if it results in care for another) because they find it viable for themselves, as opposed to what would be termed as selflessness.

Tell me if this does not PERFECTLY describe ng

Antisocial personality disorder
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Not to be confused with Avoidant personality disorder.
Antisocial personality disorder
Classification and external resources
ICD-10 F60.2
ICD-9 301.8
MeSH [1]

Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD or APD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."[1] The individual must be age 18 or older, as well as have a documented history of a conduct disorder before the age of 15.[1] People having antisocial personality disorder are sometimes referred to as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths", although some researchers believe that these terms are not synonymous with ASPD.[2]

This is quite a long article and well worth reading. Hope this helps Natal.

 

[LillyRush]

Keep in mind, and I'm not defending anyone, but a lot of times people are told to mind their own business. People aren't as neighborly as they used to be and don't know neighbors and don't stick their necks into other people's business as much. When they do, they're accused of being nosy, busybodies, or even perverts!

I mean, imagine if someone came over to your house and started asking all kinds of questions, calling the cops on you, etc. You'd probably think they were being intrusive and should mind their own business. That's how people are nowadays. They keep to themselves and give others the benefit of the doubt.

And then when they DO cal the police, LE comes and spends 10 minutes on the front porch and dimisses the call!

I know that. That's why I said it's a very telling sign of how things operate in many neighborhoods. The post that I was responding to was saying the same thing and in my response I gave examples of how it took people from outside the neighborhood to do anything about it.

 

[Natal]

Natal you are still in confusion over psychopaths vs psychotic/mentally ill people. The ref. articles tell a different story than your posts tell. You can rightly state there are no absolutes, but you still need to be aware of the differences between a psychopath and what constitutes the diagnosis. A psychopath has emotions that are related to himself only. He couldn't care less if his actions cause others pain, fear or death. That is not the norm for our society. Thank God MOST people fall closer to the "center of the table."

Here is the article I posted earlier and hopefully, posting it here will help you understand the points I am trying to make. If you are an expert in this field, it is time for you to post your credentials and let us know why your ideas differ from experts in the field!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy is where the article is found

Bla Bla Bla

This is quite a long article and well worth reading. Hope this helps Natal.

Continue reading and you will find the following statement:

"The following findings are for research purposes only, and are not used in clinical diagnosis. These items cover the affective, interpersonal, and behavioral features. Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy"

In plain english, there is a range of of psychopathic behaviour, all the way from "normal" to "extreme". Some level of psychopathy is common in average people. There is no cut off that says "at this point you are a psychopath", it is an arbitary evaluation that sometimes is clear and othertimes not.