The Remains Location -and the search

[SoCalSleuth]

There's absolutely nothing there except for orange groves and desert.

 

[socalsuz]

Yep....I know this road. Once you get past the mission, it is just scrub, little canyons and VERY, VERY remote....

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Here's more info on the location http://kimberlydvorak.blogspot.com/2010/03/second-missing-teenager-amber-dubois.html:

 

[powayparent]

Pala-Temecula Rd would be the way someone would drive from Pala Casino to the Pechanga casino if they were casino-hopping.

 

[socalsuz]

if the crime scene was up or down, they pointed up a mile-long road into a wooded section of the hillside.

Wonder if they mean a road off of Pala-temecula (aroube?)

 

[Ghostwheel]

I think I have figured out which road off of Pala-Temecula LE took to find Amber, based on Google Earth pics and the picture posted earlier in this thread. Just so you can see what the terrain is like, here are some screen captures of Google Earth.

AmberDuboisAreaZoomin.jpg shows a close up of what I believe to be the tree in the picture posted above. Note the road next to it.
AmberDuboisArea.jpg shows the hilly terrain, and some of the dirt roads in the area. There are a few houses and some farms through here, but it's not heavily used, and there are a boatload of places to go off the road. You'd need pretty exact instructions to find anything in here.

AmberDuboisAreaZoomout.jpg show where that tree is compared to the Pala Library and I-15 (15 north goes to Lake Elsinore, south to Rancho Bernardo) I-15 is at the left of the picture.

The junction to go up Pala-Temecula rd is near the Pala Library.

Edited to add:
Hey, you guys are ahead of me on another thread. People are saying Arouba Rd, and that is this one I found by Google Earthing and looking for the tree.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Just for the record, I don't know if they still do it, but once when I was going through that checkpoint, the Border Patrol waved me aside, chatted with me, and asked if they could look in my trunk. I assume it was a random check, since, as a Caucasian female with older family members in the car, I'm sure I didn't fit any profile.But that scrutiny is obviously not anything a criminal wants to face.

Oh, it's a place where they can stop you, for sure. Not just to check for 'aliens' either. I've seen people get pulled over for random things there.

The thing is too, 15 is heavily patrolled by aircraft for speeders and if he had ANY thought that MAYBE, just maybe someone saw him with Amber, he would have stayed off the 15. It is teaming with cops most of the time. (Don't ask me how I know this but I'm off to court again next week.) The only other n/s route is right through Pala. Plus, like I stated in another forum, if he was going to the Casinos, this is the road!

 

[TravelingBug]

KGTV (10) news at 11:

Impromptu memorial set up at Escondido High

Stress remains found in rugged and remote area.

Were following "a lead" that got them there early Saturday morning.

Positive ID made Saturday afternoon.

Saturday evening they told Amber's parents (interesting, wonder what caused the 18 hour or so delay until the press conference today)

Authorities won't comment on any connection to JAG.

Family PI is the one that believes there is no tie and that someone stepped forward after Chelsea. Someone else that's a PI thinks Amber was kidnapped by someone she knew, not JAG.

Blue ribbons around the Dubois front gate.

Vigil will happen at EHS at 6:30 tomorrow (by the way, throngs of Chelsea sites are all saying where blue and white in Amber's memory tomorrow - they've said "show her family and friends the support that we've received)

Memorials growing all round Escondido where the are still big missing signs for Amber.

 

[sarx]

Anybody have any idea how close her remains were to these coords?

N33 23.825
W117 05.108

 

[Lipin One]

KGTV (10) news at 11:

Impromptu memorial set up at Escondido High

Stress remains found in rugged and remote area.

Were following "a lead" that got them there early Saturday morning.

Positive ID made Saturday afternoon.

Saturday evening they told Amber's parents (interesting, wonder what caused the 18 hour or so delay until the press conference today)

Authorities won't comment on any connection to JAG.

Family PI is the one that believes there is no tie and that someone stepped forward after Chelsea. Someone else that's a PI thinks Amber was kidnapped by someone she knew, not JAG.

Blue ribbons around the Dubois front gate.

Vigil will happen at EHS at 6:30 tomorrow (by the way, throngs of Chelsea sites are all saying where blue and white in Amber's memory tomorrow - they've said "show her family and friends the support that we've received)

Memorials growing all round Escondido where the are still big missing signs for Amber.

OMG! It is a private road!

 

[Lipin One]

This news article says that the location is 5 miles North of Pala Casino.

The area that's blocked off by police tape sits on a winding road just five miles north of the Pala Casino. Sheriff's deputies at the scene described the area as a remote and desolate part in the outskirts of San Diego County.

The community has been following the missing Escondido teen's case from the day she disappeared February 13th, 2009. Some people even made their way to the crime scene.

"We want to show the area where Amber's remains were found," Stacey Humphrey said as she stood near the scene where authorities discovered the skeletal remains of Amber. "Sheriff's deputies have put up this yellow tape and it's down this private road in a rural and desolate area where Amber's skeletal remains were found."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-amber-dubois-pala-scene-sunday,0,7124263.story

 

[beetrue]

Dogs led them to the library ON the reservation.

Authorities said that she was NOT found on the reservation but north of it.

Tomorrow there will be a presser with more details on where she was found.

Could it be possible that JAG had something of hers -or her scent on him -and visited the library and reservation to not seem suspicious of being in the area? or that he had her somewhere -had her scent on him -went and scouted out the reservation -then went hiking to figure out where to take her -this leaving scent for the dogs to track?

 

[Amity]

I typed this late last night/early this morning and thought I posted it ( I was soooo tired) but by the time I went to post it, the discussion was divided so I hope I am putting this in the most logical place/topic.


For lack of a better word, finding Amber is so bittersweet for me.......a roller coaster of emotions.
She has been found. No more wondering.
She's been found, but not alive, and my heart and soul aches for her Mom, Dad and all who loved her.



SoCalSleuth:
"As an aside, this place is so vast and remote there is no way they could have found her outside of someone telling them exactly where she was."

Traveling Bug:
"That needs to be underscored for people who don't know this area! "


SoCalSleuth and Traveling Bug,

My husband was stationed at NAS Miramar for eleven years, back in the day.
Poway, RB, Escondido, Tierrasanta were my stomping grounds and where my children spent the formative years of their lives. My girls born at Sharps. A bit further from there....I worked at Grossmont Hospital for years.

I have nothing but wonderful memories of those years in San Diego and besides the fact that another human being was missing without a trace, those fond memories and my love for the area are two more reasons I was so drawn to Amber's case....as if I had a personal connection to her.

I now travel this area twice, and sometimes three times a month.
(Two family members work at two separate casinos. We go have lunch with them or wait for them to get off work and all of us go do something 'fun'. Or we take my parents to visit old friends of theirs)

I must Reiterate everything you've both said in all your posts about the area.
If you are new to those mountains, you better have a good map or major landmarks or you'll be driving in circles as every new curve of the mountain looks the same as the last.
Landmarks: Avocado groves, Orange Groves, Casinos, Rez's Firehouse/school/cemetary/etc.
A span as short of nine miles, on those very winding roads, feels like 35 miles.
And no way would anyone who isn't familiar with the area, venture out to 'hide' something after dark.
With headlights off, unless you are near a casino or a group of houses (which are usually set back from the road) the area is pitch black....can barely see 5 feet in front of you.

My husband knows the road/roads like the he knows the back of his hand from Pechanga, to Pala, to Pauma, to the fork in the road to Harrah's and on to Valley View but he told me earlier he would never go off the beaten path or venture out alone on one of the side dirt roads....having no idea where they lead.
And he also said once you lose track of a 'landmark', you're toast unless you know the area well like those who live on the Rez's.

Even though dogs alerted but nothing was found, and even though it's been 'reported' that JAG isn't the one who gave the tip, I truly believe this 'tip' came from someone who had to know EXACTLY where she was and gave directions to her body via 'landmarks'.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I typed this late last night/early this morning and thought I posted it ( I was soooo tired) but by the time I went to post it, the discussion was divided so I hope I am putting this in the most logical place/topic.


For lack of a better word, finding Amber is so bittersweet for me.......a roller coaster of emotions.
She has been found. No more wondering.
She's been found, but not alive, and my heart and soul aches for her Mom, Dad and all who loved her.



SoCalSleuth:
"As an aside, this place is so vast and remote there is no way they could have found her outside of someone telling them exactly where she was."

Traveling Bug:
"That needs to be underscored for people who don't know this area! "


SoCalSleuth and Traveling Bug,

My husband was stationed at NAS Miramar for eleven years, back in the day.
Poway, RB, Escondido, Tierrasanta were my stomping grounds and where my children spent the formative years of their lives. My girls born at Sharps. A bit further from there....I worked at Grossmont Hospital for years.

I have nothing but wonderful memories of those years in San Diego and besides the fact that another human being was missing without a trace, those fond memories and my love for the area are two more reasons I was so drawn to Amber's case....as if I had a personal connection to her.

I now travel this area twice, and sometimes three times a month.
(Two family members work at two separate casinos. We go have lunch with them or wait for them to get off work and all of us go do something 'fun'. Or we take my parents to visit old friends of theirs)

I must Reiterate everything you've both said in all your posts about the area.
If you are new to those mountains, you better have a good map or major landmarks or you'll be driving in circles as every new curve of the mountain looks the same as the last.
Landmarks: Avocado groves, Orange Groves, Casinos, Rez's Firehouse/school/cemetary/etc.
A span as short of nine miles, on those very winding roads, feels like 35 miles.
And no way would anyone who isn't familiar with the area, venture out to 'hide' something after dark.
With headlights off, unless you are near a casino or a group of houses (which are usually set back from the road) the area is pitch black....can barely see 5 feet in front of you.

My husband knows the road/roads like the he knows the back of his hand from Pechanga, to Pala, to Pauma, to the fork in the road to Harrah's and on to Valley View but he told me earlier he would never go off the beaten path or venture out alone on one of the side dirt roads....having no idea where they lead.
And he also said once you lose track of a 'landmark', you're toast unless you know the area well like those who live on the Rez's.

Even though dogs alerted but nothing was found, and even though it's been 'reported' that JAG isn't the one who gave the tip, I truly believe this 'tip' came from someone who had to know EXACTLY where she was and gave directions to her body via 'landmarks'.

Exactly! Although I've never been on the West side of the road, I do spend a lot of time in the other areas and we always bring our GPS & we are familiar with the area! Outside of the casino area, once you get off the road there are no landmarks at all--it all looks the same-rocks and brush and more rocks and brush. You look out for miles and there is nothing to distinguish it. I don't think it matters that much that this is a private road--these are absent landowners--no one is around. People are permitted to hunt in these areas and just 2 weeks ago I trespassed through a cow ranch to take pictures. People do it all the time. BTW, thanks to your husband for his service! My boyfriend was just discharged on Friday--what a happy day!

 

[concentric]

Amity, SoCalSleuth and all:

Do you remember these abductions and murders from the late 1970's in the San Diego area?
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/bittaker_norris/4.html

Reason I ask, is because after we were posting yesterday about several recent attempted abductions in the area, I noticed that a white van with sliding doors was used in many. So I started googling some terms.

I went back to post this and learned that Amber's body was found in just such a rugged and remote location (though not the same area: a remote fire road in the San Gabriel Mountains, overlooking Glendora. They threw the girls bodies off of a cliff). I wonder if the killer copied Bittaker and Norris. And I also wonder if the white van with sliding doors in the recent attempted abductions was the vehicle involved with Amber's disappearance.

 

[nursebeeme]

Chelsea was in shallow grave by water
was
Amber just dumped or was she buried alittle also?

Could JAG of had help with Amber?

It was stated it would take a very strong person to hike her there.
Also the tipster said he was afraid of JAG and just told LE where to find
Amber!!!

bbm where did you hear the part I bolded passion? tia I hadn't heard this

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Amity, SoCalSleuth and all:

Do you remember these abductions and murders from the late 1970's in the San Diego area?
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/bittaker_norris/4.html

Reason I ask, is because after we were posting yesterday about several recent attempted abductions in the area, I noticed that a white van with sliding doors was used in many. So I started googling some terms.

I went back to post this and learned that Amber's body was found in just such a rugged and remote location (though not the same area: a remote fire road in the San Gabriel Mountains, overlooking Glendora. They threw the girls bodies off of a cliff). I wonder if the killer copied Bittaker and Norris. And I also wonder if the white van with sliding doors in the recent attempted abductions was the vehicle involved with Amber's disappearance.

Good point. A white van with sliding doors was also involved in the attempted abductions at Mission Trails. Once he tried to grab a lone jogger, then a few weeks later tried to abduct 2 joggers together! That always made me believe that there was another person in the van. That's another situation where there were no warnings about the attempts either in the park or in the news. It only made the news in a tiny little blurb sometime later. I guess our park personnel think residents are more afraid of mountain lions than they are of being raped and killed in the park.

 

[WillenFan21]

Guys how did they find her?

 

[marlap]

I typed this late last night/early this morning and thought I posted it ( I was soooo tired) but by the time I went to post it, the discussion was divided so I hope I am putting this in the most logical place/topic.


For lack of a better word, finding Amber is so bittersweet for me.......a roller coaster of emotions.
She has been found. No more wondering.
She's been found, but not alive, and my heart and soul aches for her Mom, Dad and all who loved her.



SoCalSleuth:
"As an aside, this place is so vast and remote there is no way they could have found her outside of someone telling them exactly where she was."

Traveling Bug:
"That needs to be underscored for people who don't know this area! "


SoCalSleuth and Traveling Bug,

My husband was stationed at NAS Miramar for eleven years, back in the day.
Poway, RB, Escondido, Tierrasanta were my stomping grounds and where my children spent the formative years of their lives. My girls born at Sharps. A bit further from there....I worked at Grossmont Hospital for years.

I have nothing but wonderful memories of those years in San Diego and besides the fact that another human being was missing without a trace, those fond memories and my love for the area are two more reasons I was so drawn to Amber's case....as if I had a personal connection to her.

I now travel this area twice, and sometimes three times a month.
(Two family members work at two separate casinos. We go have lunch with them or wait for them to get off work and all of us go do something 'fun'. Or we take my parents to visit old friends of theirs)

I must Reiterate everything you've both said in all your posts about the area.
If you are new to those mountains, you better have a good map or major landmarks or you'll be driving in circles as every new curve of the mountain looks the same as the last.
Landmarks: Avocado groves, Orange Groves, Casinos, Rez's Firehouse/school/cemetary/etc.
A span as short of nine miles, on those very winding roads, feels like 35 miles.
And no way would anyone who isn't familiar with the area, venture out to 'hide' something after dark.
With headlights off, unless you are near a casino or a group of houses (which are usually set back from the road) the area is pitch black....can barely see 5 feet in front of you.

My husband knows the road/roads like the he knows the back of his hand from Pechanga, to Pala, to Pauma, to the fork in the road to Harrah's and on to Valley View but he told me earlier he would never go off the beaten path or venture out alone on one of the side dirt roads....having no idea where they lead.
And he also said once you lose track of a 'landmark', you're toast unless you know the area well like those who live on the Rez's.

Even though dogs alerted but nothing was found, and even though it's been 'reported' that JAG isn't the one who gave the tip, I truly believe this 'tip' came from someone who had to know EXACTLY where she was and gave directions to her body via 'landmarks'.

Incredible...

I'm wondering if anyone who knew exactly where to send LE to recover her body must have actually been there when she was dumped given the remote and dark location.

I'm wondering if the person was tricked into helping dispose of the body and then threatened (or their family member threatened) with death.
Scenario: JAG picks the person up to go drinking or gambling and instead goes to the remote location and tells the person "You're going to help me dispose of this body or I'll kill you (or your child, your mother, your wife, etc..)."

Only when JAG was arrested and upon thinking it through for a day or two did that person get the courage to come forward.

Or, maybe the person found the body and knew (somehow) that it must have been JAG and was already scared of JAG so never said anyhting.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I did NOT know that until you put that in the other thread.

So her folks were right on TWO fronts - they had been following JAG AND they got as far as Pala...where she was ultimately found.

Unreal they were SO close with both things.

We ought to make note of their PI's name; he is clearly the real deal.

eta: They certainly did not get a lot of help from LE.