Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #1

[cjcord]

how do you not know where your spouse works?:S

 

[BondJamesBond]

Except, why would she call the GP's house # to reach them at home during that flurry of calls, if she was already at the house?

I think she's actually calling TO her Mom FROM the house phone. This has been confusing me too. Not 100% sure I'm reading it correctly.


3:03 PM, she calls her dad on his cell phone
4:10, she calls her mom at work
4:11, she calls her mom on her cell phone
4:13, she calls her mom on her cell phone
4:14, she calls her mom at work
4:19, she calls Tony Lazzaro (ph)
4:21, she calls Jesse Grund (ph)
4:24, mom on her cell
6:32, mom on home phone
6:33, voice-mail
7:06, mom home
7:20, she calls her friend, Amy

Wish I knew when Cindy got home 6/16.

 

[BondJamesBond]

On July 15th or in June?

Earlier than 7/15. Perhaps he was going to multiple interviews, or, had to go to orientation training or background check following a job offer. The reference wasn't specific. Darn it...wish I'd made a note of it :doh:

 

[RhondaIL]

We have a friend that works for a security company. They provide security for office complexes 24/7/365. He usually works 2 - 10, 3 - 11 or 4 - midnight. His days off often change during the summer with everyone wanting to get their vacation time in during nicer weather.

If the company George works for is similar to our friend's employer, Casey may have assumed George was off that day.

jmo

 

[Patty G]

Earlier than 7/15. Perhaps he was going to multiple interviews, or, had to go to orientation training or background check following a job offer. The reference wasn't specific. Darn it...wish I'd made a note of it :doh:

I'll try and search something out as I have always questioned the morning of June 16th, especially before 12:50 PM. There was never any elaboration of Caylee's being around in the morning except for the statement Cindy made about hearing them in the bedroom on that morning.

I figure Cindy starts her job at 8:00 AM because it's basically a "desk" position perhaps 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM.

And based on Clint stating Casey slept at Tony's on June 15th and left around 8:30 AM or so when Tony left for school, sure makes me wonder for a long, long time why no one talked about Caylee getting up, wanting breakfast, playing, going potty, having lunch with GA ... nothing!

Caylee just instantly appears at 12:50 PM with Casey ready to head out the door.

 

[Patty G]

Earlier than 7/15. Perhaps he was going to multiple interviews, or, had to go to orientation training or background check following a job offer. The reference wasn't specific. Darn it...wish I'd made a note of it :doh:

Did George say it at the bond hearing?

 

[Patty G]

how do you not know where your spouse works?:S

I thought the same exact thing when Cindy was being questioned by the state. It's like people live in the same house and don't have a clue about what the other one is doing.

 

[hannahsnana]

...alternatively, it was reported that there was detergent/cleaner in the trunk of the car. If there were bleach in the detergent, as is often the case now, and it was used to clean the trunk, or even spilled in the trunk, it may have reacted with the post-mortem urination from the body also stored there http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/20233

I know the reports say something like 'elevated' chloroform levels. So this is a stretch explanation for now. Really need to know if we're talking 10% higher than background or 100% higher than background to see if this is plausible.

I'm not sure you can just go get chloroform off-the-shelf.

Bond, I like your theory, but the urine/cleaner reaction doesn't explain the information about chloroform look-up on the computer.

 

[RhondaIL]

George's bond hearing testimony http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/M....jsp?contentId=7038761&version=1&locale=EN-US

 

[Baznme]

Does anyone remember George stating there was "cleaning fluid" in the trunk of the car? There are some industrial cleaning solvents that use Methyl Chloroform?

http://oehha.ca.gov/air/chronic_rels/pdf/71556.pdf
See section III - Major Uses And Sources.

That is true. I do remember that. Good observation.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond, I like your theory, but the urine/cleaner reaction doesn't explain the information about chloroform look-up on the computer.

I agree. I just dunno yet. I posted earlier, and I think Patty G did too, that it may have been the "cleaner" George referenced (sorry - don' t have that one handy). I just don' t have enough info yet to fully pixelate this thing...:banghead:

 

[RhondaIL]

Does anyone remember George stating there was "cleaning fluid" in the trunk of the car? There are some industrial cleaning solvents that use Methyl Chloroform?

http://oehha.ca.gov/air/chronic_rels/pdf/71556.pdf
See section III - Major Uses And Sources.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17102415/detail.html

"You need to put some pizza, pizza box, an Arm and Hammer laundry detergent container, put it in a bag, a kitchen bag about 18 inches tall.

video with George about how to do the pizza test: http://www.wftv.com/video/17103057/index.html

 

[Short_Stuff]

Bond- George said he saw Casey and Caylee leave the day after Fathers Day with their backpacks, so no I dont think Caylee was still there with George.
And I doubt she drowned by "accident". She would have called 911. Caylees death had to be in a way that Casey would get in trouble if she reported it, such as murder or leaving her in the car.
Pool drownings, (or falling off a porch) IMO all would have been reported as accidents.

 

[tttterri]

George and Cindy are the ones that told Greta that Casey and Caylee left that morning before he went to work. I have wondered about him actually having a job at that time. The chloroform was reported as high level, and also as traces, so I am not sure what they are referring to. Level makes me think of a gas. Chloroform evaporates and George and Cindy aired that car for almost 2 days before its removal to the LE bay.

 

[Patty G]

...alternatively, it was reported that there was detergent/cleaner in the trunk of the car. If there were bleach in the detergent, as is often the case now, and it was used to clean the trunk, or even spilled in the trunk,

I would think that if "bleach" was one of the components within this solvent, and used to clean the trunk, it would lighten up the area that was cleaned because of the bleach.

 

[tttterri]

We all know Cindy is going to say she looked up chloroform on the laptop. She always referred to it as HER laptop. It is possible that Casey carried it around but I havent found that written anywhere. Im not sure what kind of work she is doing now, I think some type of manager, but in my experience with case managers, home health, ect,,they bring their laptops right along with them.

 

[Patty G]

Earlier than 7/15. Perhaps he was going to multiple interviews, or, had to go to orientation training or background check following a job offer. The reference wasn't specific. Darn it...wish I'd made a note of it :doh:

It's in the bond hearing about George going to a meeting on July 15th.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/M....jsp?contentId=7038761&version=1&locale=EN-US

Retract the above as Geroge said Wednesday, so this meeting had to be July 16th.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'll try and search something out as I have always questioned the morning of June 16th, especially before 12:50 PM. There was never any elaboration of Caylee's being around in the morning except for the statement Cindy made about hearing them in the bedroom on that morning.

I figure Cindy starts her job at 8:00 AM because it's basically a "desk" position perhaps 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM.

And based on Clint stating Casey slept at Tony's on June 15th and left around 8:30 AM or so when Tony left for school, sure makes me wonder for a long, long time why no one talked about Caylee getting up, wanting breakfast, playing, going potty, having lunch with GA ... nothing!

Caylee just instantly appears at 12:50 PM with Casey ready to head out the door.

I'm w/ you here, Patty and appreciate the thoughts. Digging into Clint's interview though, it seems that Casey may have left Tony's earlier or later Monday morning than Clint did since he couldn't recall seeing her leave @ the time he did. IMHO...Casey went back to George & Cindy's sometime Monday morning, 6/16, picked up Caylee and ran some errands etc., then brought her back to George & Cindy's in time for nap and escape to Tony's on her own.

IT'S CONFUSING BECAUSE GRETA SLIPS THE DATE BY A DAY :doh: but here it is:

VAN SUSTEREN: So let's go to this arbitrary June 15 I picked, that Saturday before Father's Day. The next day is Father's Day. Do you remember Father's Day?
HOUSE: Yes, but I was up in Jacksonville.
VAN SUSTEREN: With your own father.
HOUSE: With my own father. Yes, ma'am.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Tony or Casey and know where they are?
HOUSE: No, I was too busy hanging out with my dad and...
VAN SUSTEREN: When did you return from Jacksonville?
HOUSE: On Sunday, the 16th.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember if Sunday night, Casey was there?
HOUSE: I believe so, yes, she was there. Caylee wasn't there. You know, like I said, I was still staying there up until July 1. It's really kind of hard to put a number on the times that she was there, but she was there a lot.​

Then just a little later in the same interview...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So fast-forward again to Father's Day, June 15. You returned later that day. You think Casey spent the night there, that Sunday night. Do you remember waking up that next day, the day after Father's Day?
HOUSE: Yes, Monday for class.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember seeing Caylee?
HOUSE: No, Caylee was not -- like I said, Caylee never spent the night over there, so...
VAN SUSTEREN: How about Casey? Was Casey there that morning, if you remember?
HOUSE: I can't recall.​

 

[tttterri]

I wonder why it was ok to Casey to have Caylee overnight at Ricardos and sleeping in the same bed, but when it came to Tony's apt, no such happening? Odd.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I would think that if "bleach" was one of the components within this solvent, and used to clean the trunk, it would lighten up the area that was cleaned because of the bleach.

Was thinking maybe A&H w/ Colorsafe bleach e.g. http://www.greatcleaners.com/ahpowderdetergent.html

...I'm sure this point has its own thread.

Back to the key point...

I've just been going nuts trying to establish the timeline for care of Casey that doesn't involve a sitter. The family used the 6/9+/- date on their statements originally. Then the story about reappearing for Father's Day and the evidence of visits w/ Cindy's parents shifted the focus to the week of 6/16 and away from the week of 6/9 (understandably). While the shift all seemed innocent enough originally. I think it is key to understand what pattern of care for Caylee emerged the week of 6/9. IF Caylee was still staying nights @ George & Cindy's up until 6/16, because of Clint's account of Casey staying nights @ Tony's w/o Caylee, then, the selection of 6/9 by the family in statements seems - all too conveniently - to intentional shift focus away from the fight we later learned about that occurred on 6/15.

After Casey had the fight w/ Cindy (and George) 6/15, it seems reasonable that she would avoid Cindy Monday morning, 6/16, and go back to the house later than Cindy leaves for work. This would explain why Clint didn't see her leave (e.g. later than him). To pick-up some clothes without confronting George. Perhaps she snuck in through the gate & sun porch and left things unlocked so she could get in again if needed. Since she didn't want to "see" George she assumed he was there and snuck back out again when she left for Tony's for the night This gives the same unattended-Caylee-accident situation.

George's account of seeing them 6/16 just doesn't wash. At the point he gave it, he was trying to support the ZFG/kidnapping and provide a story that had Caylee LEAVING the house in Casey's care on the way to the babysitters.