Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

[DairyGirl]

I go back and forth like a lot of people. Lately I have been feeling more hopeful. If Gabriel is alive then I feel that TPS had a hand in her hiding him and with EJ turning on TPS the truth should come out. It seems that TPS is now saying she thinks he is dead because she wants the heat off her and the possiblity that she had him hidden. On the other hand I can't see why EJ would allow herself to sit in jail if producing him would help get her out sooner. In the past, when she claimed that LM kidnapped him, LE found him pretty quickly showing that she wasn't that good at hiding him. Unless LE is totally incompetent they should have been able to get her cell phone records, computer records, GPS records, pings and the such. That should have led them to whoever has baby Gabriel if he were given away. She had to contact them somehow and I don't think she is smart enough to cover her tracks or she herself wouldn't have been found so quickly. So I am unsure as to what happened to Gabriel. I am praying he is alive and is found soon but I wouldn't be surprised if it went the other way, too.

 

[Ives]

I would say no, because no evidence has come up from the motel room or the car...BUT...My faith in SA police department and missing children is not good. I see so many posters of missing Teens here, while most are likely runaways, you hear nothing of these children. not on the news, nor from police. Just a flier at the store, most likely hung by a sad parent/friend.


so, if Gabes fate, is left in the hands of SAPD, My hope will dwindle. IMO. actually, I expect them too sit on their butts until the last minute. Seriously, look how long EJ's car was at the motel! This is a Motel 6, that gets at least a drive through by police once or twice a night!!

I guess I am venting. I honestly do not know what to think. not anymore. my brain is hurting. sorry.

 

[PoppyH]

Another KC Anthony, I believe she killed him, just for spite, she seems like a hateful, spiteful girl, going by what Ive read, I do hope Im wrong and this beautiful baby is found alive by some miracal

 

[not_my_kids]

Really really good points about the difference in blind rage and calculated rage. I would loooove to agree with you on her having at least some reaction to a just deceased child, but with an extreme lack of empathy and no other human around to show her how to "mimic" appropriate emotions, she just might have felt overwhelming relief that "it was all over".

I also think it possible that with her new id and leaving the car behind, that she would never be found the rest of her life. Many do disappear down that rabbit hole to never be found again, sadly.

True story again: a nice man in his 60's moved into a tiny town nestled deep in the Ozark mountains about 20 years ago. Such a gentlemanly person, helpful to neighbors, the kinda guy you'd want your grandkids to know. Married and had a nice long run of it. This year he was arrested for murdering his wife 20 years ago just before he ran with new id and created a new life for himself. It just took awhile for authorities to track him down. People around there are still reeling from the shock. No one thought him capable of such a thing in a million years.

So, although I'm not totally convinced of it, I do think it possible that EJ thought she had free license to torture Logan like that right before she disappeared into a whole new life.

Biggest fact that leads me AWAY from that theory is that I don't think she would then tell him where the body was after she was out of the country if she had really killed him. Maybe Logan asked her what dumpster and where and she was caught short without an answer because there really WAS no dumpster. Logan has surely seen her through these temper tantrums many times and can probably tell when she's been caught in a lie (I know someone quite well like that and I know their "tells" when they lie). That might be why he feels that she didn't kill Gabe, even though he knows she's capable of it.

BBM. See, this is where I believe differently than most others. I don't believe she is a sociopath/psychopath. And the fact that there was no one there to show her is part of what gives me hope.
That last set of pictures, with the clothes and the toys, the food on his shirt to show she was feeding him...there was no one there to supervise her or give her a frame of reference, but she still fed him, changed him, dressed him and gave him toys.
EDIT: Doesn't seem like she gave him any severe beating either, as I was sort of figuring she would have. There were no facial or leg bruises visible in the pictures.

 

[vjlaw]

There is also a pic of him in a stocking cap. Trying to keep him from getting cold doesn't seem to fit with someone wanting to kill him either. jmo

 

[STEADFAST]

There is also a pic of him in a stocking cap. Trying to keep him from getting cold doesn't seem to fit with someone wanting to kill him either. jmo

IMO, putting a cap on him does not negate the impression I get from so many of EJ's actions that she did not want Gabriel or care about his welfare and that she was violent towards him.

From Arizona Repubic: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/01/17/20100117missingbaby0117.html

In custody documents filed in December in Maricopa County Court, McQueary said he ended the relationship. In July, he alleged, she became enraged when he didn't return home from work on time and took a knife to his clothing, the couch and the baby crib. She broke dishes and took a cooking pan and smashed the TV while the baby was in the Tempe apartment.

. . . in September when she got mad at her brother on the phone. She cut up the baby's clothes and the crib and broke every window in the apartment. Johnson spent the evening in jail and went through a diversion program on the criminal-damage charges, according to Tempe Municipal Court records.

. . . When he [Logan] broke up with her in mid-December, she told him to take the baby.

. . . "She has said several times in the past that she doesn't want the baby," he wrote in his petition, filed on Dec. 14. "She's yelled and screamed at him when I would go to work. When I would go to work, I would put the baby in his room and when I would get home five hours later he would still be in the room (with) no changed diaper and crying and I would ask her what she was doing and she would just yell at me and say go shut that thing up."

. . . On Dec. 21, in a petition to enforce child-custody determination, he wrote, "When Elizabeth gets mad, she can and will hurt the baby."

bbm

I also think it's significant that although people in her family say they think she didn't kill him, they also say she was capable of killing him. It's very rare for a person's family to say that.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Does anyone feel it is possible that Gabriel died from an accidental overdose- from Elizabeth being negligent, and giving him too much medicine?

From there, she may have panicked, and disposed of his body.

After that is when she would have contacted Logan to tell him she killed the baby.

I wonder why she bothered to get a babysitter if she was giving the baby medicine all of the time? She could have knocked him out with benedryl
and spent the babysitting money on herself. I think it is kind of interesting that she looked for someone to babysit at the motel. I know the baby looked drugged up in a couple of his pictures but I wonder if he really was. Most mothers carry a bottle of meds like she had on the bed just in case their baby gets a fever or cold. He could have been on the verge of going to sleep or was just waking up in those pictures. I'll bet we've all had pic's where we looked out of it but weren't.

I hope she didn't kill that little guy. I suppose a woman is just as capable of it as a man is if they want revenge against their ex or don't want him to have the baby. A horrible thought. I wonder why she didn't just give him to the Smiths? What went wrong there...anyone know?

 

[not_my_kids]

I wonder why she bothered to get a babysitter if she was giving the baby medicine all of the time? She could have knocked him out with benedryl
and spent the babysitting money on herself. I think it is kind of interesting that she looked for someone to babysit at the motel. I know the baby looked drugged up in a couple of his pictures but I wonder if he really was. Most mothers carry a bottle of meds like she had on the bed just in case their baby gets a fever or cold. He could have been on the verge of going to sleep or was just waking up in those pictures. I'll bet we've all had pic's where we looked out of it but weren't.

I hope she didn't kill that little guy. I suppose a woman is just as capable of it as a man is if they want revenge against their ex or don't want him to have the baby. A horrible thought. I wonder why she didn't just give him to the Smiths? What went wrong there...anyone know?

She couldn't give him up. Logan still had rights and wanted to keep him.

 

[vjlaw]

IMO, putting a cap on him does not negate the impression I get from so many of EJ's actions that she did not want Gabriel or care about his welfare and that she was violent towards him.
bbm

I also think it's significant that although people in her family say they think she didn't kill him, they also say she was capable of killing him. It's very rare for a person's family to say that.

It makes no sense at all to me for someone like EJ to put a stocking cap on him. Why bother?

 

[BeanE]

I wonder why she bothered to get a babysitter if she was giving the baby medicine all of the time? She could have knocked him out with benedryl
and spent the babysitting money on herself. I think it is kind of interesting that she looked for someone to babysit at the motel. I know the baby looked drugged up in a couple of his pictures but I wonder if he really was. Most mothers carry a bottle of meds like she had on the bed just in case their baby gets a fever or cold. He could have been on the verge of going to sleep or was just waking up in those pictures. I'll bet we've all had pic's where we looked out of it but weren't.

I hope she didn't kill that little guy. I suppose a woman is just as capable of it as a man is if they want revenge against their ex or don't want him to have the baby. A horrible thought. I wonder why she didn't just give him to the Smiths? What went wrong there...anyone know?

She couldn't leave Gabe in the hotel room because there is no way to lock a hotel room door when you leave the room in a way that will keep housekeeping out. She couldn't take a chance on housekeeping finding Gabe alone in the room and reporting her.

For the pictures, Gabe's father knows him better than anyone else. Certainly better than any of us. He says he has never seen Gabe look like that, and he's most certainly seen Gabe when he's just sleepy or waking up or looking out of it in a picture.

She was trying her best to give Gabe to the Smiths, but discovered she couldn't sever Logan's parental rights. By that time, Logan had found out about the Smiths, so she could no longer give Gabe to them or Logan would have found him.

 

[STEADFAST]

It makes no sense at all to me for someone like EJ to put a stocking cap on him. Why bother?

Maybe she enjoyed dressing him up. Doesn't mean she loved him.

 

[SallyManda]

I keep hoping to see a "found alive" but I'm pretty sure he is dead

shades of casey anthony...

I really don't see the whole casey anthony comparison..I feel these stories are very VERY different.

Casey didn't run..She was out in the very open partying not trying to start a new life under a new identity...She had death smell in her car. She made up a person and Im not convinced EJ did..there wasn't a person trying to illegally adopt her daughter...I could go on forever. I feel like its apples and oranges.

 

[SallyManda]

She couldn't leave Gabe in the hotel room because there is no way to lock a hotel room door when you leave the room in a way that will keep housekeeping out. She couldn't take a chance on housekeeping finding Gabe alone in the room and reporting her.

For the pictures, Gabe's father knows him better than anyone else. Certainly better than any of us. He says he has never seen Gabe look like that, and he's most certainly seen Gabe when he's just sleepy or waking up or looking out of it in a picture.

She was trying her best to give Gabe to the Smiths, but discovered she couldn't sever Logan's parental rights. By that time, Logan had found out about the Smiths, so she could no longer give Gabe to them or Logan would have found him.

I still dont agree that he knew the baby better than anyone..He was in jail part of the time and he worked. Someone else was watching the baby a lot of the time...He wasn't around the baby all day. He may have never seen him teething. My baby screamed 48 hours straight when his bottom teeth came in. I just don't think that means anything.

 

[SallyManda]

I think if she did kill him it was an accident. She may not win mother of the year, but I don't think she would have killed him on purpose. In her previous episodes she had hurt objects but not people. I feel like if Logan in his heart really felt she would have harmed Gabriel he would have kept the baby FAR FAR away. He dropped the protective order right?

She was obviously taking care of him..she had clothes, food, toys, she was trying to adopt him out. Why would she drive all the way to SA to kill him? She could have done it in Phoenix and been LONG gone before the police were after her. She waited for a while with him alive in SA.

 

[vjlaw]

I think if she did kill him it was an accident. She may not win mother of the year, but I don't think she would have killed him on purpose. In her previous episodes she had hurt objects but not people. I feel like if Logan in his heart really felt she would have harmed Gabriel he would have kept the baby FAR FAR away. He dropped the protective order right?

She was obviously taking care of him..she had clothes, food, toys, she was trying to adopt him out. Why would she drive all the way to SA to kill him? She could have done it in Phoenix and been LONG gone before the police were after her. She waited for a while with him alive in SA.

I agree. SA seems to be a place for adoptions. I really believe she went there for that intention. For every legal way to do something there is an illegal way. I think it very possible someone presented themselves as a legal operation but were in fact illegal. There are people all over who steal identies. GJ could have been given a new identity and whoever has him may in fact think he is perfectly legal. Wouldn't even think about a missing baby being the one they adopted especially if they are somewhere they haven't seen the missing info about Gabriel. jmo

 

[Pondering Mind]

Maybe she enjoyed dressing him up. Doesn't mean she loved him.

I agree STEADFAST. Even most mothers such as EJ were not neglectful or abusive 24/7 for every day of their children's life as hard as that is to understand.


I am thinking the worst...I wish I wasn't...
What makes it even worse is that I'm not at all sure it wasn't intentional and premeditated for revenge/spite..the most petty of reasons....IF that is true, then there is no help for this girl in this life, as she has no soul. I already know that she has no heart......:furious:

 

[Kitty Kat]

I think she killed him. I will hold out hope that she didn't but I think the park story is doubtful. I think that after she realized she couldn't adopt to the smiths she decided to skip town to keep gab away from the father. She obviously wasn't very attached to gab if she's doing everything she could to adopt him out. I know any new parent will know what a PITA it is taking a baby on a roadtrip. She was already stressed, I'm sure the baby was stressing her as well and then we hear she went off meds for post pardom depression. Combine all that with a women who wants to get rid of her child and is running out of options. Doesn't look good to me.

Also, why the hell would you send a text saying you killed your child if you didn't? She said because she only said that to hurt him. I don't buy that BS for one second.

 

[Litlred]

I don't believe she killed Gabriel. Her text below to Logan was packed full of lies. She wasn't on a plane leaving the country.

lie #1) "you will never see Gabriel again" (she couldn't know that for fact)
lie #2) "you will never find me" (more bs that she couldn't have known for sure)
lie #3) "I'm already boarding a plane out of the country." (there is no plane and she wasn't headed out of the country)
lie #4) "When I'm safe I will email you" (she was safe in Florida - did she email Logan?)

Logan McQueary showed us her text that read: "You will never see Gabriel again. I made sure of that. And you can spend the rest of of your pathetic life wondering about him. You will never find me. I'm already boarding a plane out of the country. When I'm safe, I'll email you the exact location of dead Gabriel's little blue body, if the garbage don't come first. This is what liars like you deserve."

http://www.kpho.com/news/22350870/detail.html

 

[not_my_kids]

"You will never see Gabriel again. I made sure of that. And you can spend the rest of of your pathetic life wondering about him. You will never find me. I'm already boarding a plane out of the country. When I'm safe, I'll email you the exact location of dead Gabriel's little blue body, if the garbage don't come first. This is what liars like you deserve."

That is spite, ladies and gentlemen. This is a line that a selfish little woman makes up to control a man, IMO. It is on the level and of the ilk of "I banged your best friend", "gave away your dog," or "I'm leaving you for someone else". There is no truth to them. I hear statements of this kind all day, not involving dead children, but the same pettiness and tiny little insults thrown in.
No, if she had killed him, the import of that would have been enough, liar/pathetic/this is what you deserve would not have been necessary, she would simply have said, I killed Gabriel because of you. She still needed to vent when she wrote that, if she had just worked out panic from getting rid of him or the adrenaline? rush from killing him, there would not be anything left to vent, IMO.

I am dam near dancing, because now I am sure he was alive the last time EJ saw him.

 

[OneLove]

I am dam near dancing, because now I am sure he was alive the last time EJ saw him.

I am rooting for you being spot on. Now if Gabriel can just be found.

Btw, what does it mean "if the garbage don't come first". That is just really confusing to me. I can't make sense of it. It seems muddled.

I agree; she is too long in her text....still trying to "engage" Logan, even if its an angry engagement. She was NOT done with him. It will be interesting to see all the texts when they come out.