TH's emails shed light on Horman split

[pufnstuf]

Bolded and underlined by me.

Good post! Don't you wonder why it wasn't an option? Maybe he would have had to pay child support or maybe he thought he was the 'better' parent/person to raise Kyron. Why that wasn't an option is very intriguing. Wish we knew the answer. moo mhoo

Or maybe... just MAYBE... it's because he loved his son and wanted him in his home.

 

[pufnstuf]

If anyone has a link to back up their statements about Kaine being involved in Terri's increase in child support please provide it.

If not I consider it a bait, and I also consider it a bash.

Knock it Off.

Bringing this forward so that posters can be aware of this.

 

[Aedrys]

Seems that Terri is painted as a woman with immense power, telling the courts, parents, inlaws, and husbands what to do. She is painted as being immensely powerful and those she interacted with are painted as being immensely impotent, powerless, brainless, stupid, without backbone. I contend that having a life full of spineless people is against statistical odds and at odds with human behavior as we know it. moo mho

Are you sure Terri said NO to custody, or did the court say NO to custody - did the courts say NO to custody due to crystal meth and/or a failing marriage?

Seems strange to me that Terri tried to 'double' child support of 2nd husband ONE MONTH after moving in with Kaine. Coincidence, a demand from Kaine - wouldn't she have needed the money more when living alone with her child?

Are you sure Terri took the SECOND INLAWS money? Terri was in a debilitating car accident from which she won money from a lawsuit. Amount unknown. Are you sure she didn't use that money for school? And once again, did Terri stronghold, threaten, or manipulate poor spineless in-laws to get the money as you say she did?

Just wondering because it seems that Terri has been painted ONE color by many, to the point of ridiculous monotony - if Terri was really that simple she would be arrested, tried, and convicted, waiting for the injection that ends her life.

In MOO no person is ever as simple or powerful as Terri has been described to be. I don't think Terri is as simple as black vs white. moo mho

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that she was this helpless, couldn't do anything for herself, victim that was trapped in a marriage. And we know she's powerful enough to suck a golf ball through a garden hose (her own words), so why not be powerful enough to manipulate and intimidate people?

No, she's not simple, on that I do agree. But she did have power in that marriage - the power to do away with Kyron to suit her own needs. That's enough power that should have been used to get a divorce and get out of the marriage instead. She chose to stay in it, and she chose to get Kyron out of the way. She executed her power on a helpless, innocent boy because she couldn't get her way in the marriage. Now Kaine and Desiree are powerless and helpless themselves, all thanks to Terri. That doesn't sound like a powerless person to me. That sounds like a person with destructive and chaotic power, just waiting for a victim to pour it out on, and that victim is Kyron.

All IMO. Seems like there's only one color for someone who hurts/kills a child. Black - dark, empty, soulless, evil black.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Seems that Terri is painted as a woman with immense power, telling the courts, parents, inlaws, and husbands what to do. She is painted as being immensely powerful and those she interacted with are painted as being immensely impotent, powerless, brainless, stupid, without backbone. I contend that having a life full of spineless people is against statistical odds and at odds with human behavior as we know it. moo mho

Are you sure Terri said NO to custody, or did the court say NO to custody - did the courts say NO to custody due to crystal meth and/or a failing marriage?

Seems strange to me that Terri tried to 'double' child support of 2nd husband ONE MONTH after moving in with Kaine. Coincidence, a demand from Kaine - wouldn't she have needed the money more when living alone with her child?

Are you sure Terri took the SECOND INLAWS money? Terri was in a debilitating car accident from which she won money from a lawsuit. Amount unknown. Are you sure she didn't use that money for school? And once again, did Terri stronghold, threaten, or manipulate poor spineless in-laws to get the money as you say she did?

Just wondering because it seems that Terri has been painted ONE color by many, to the point of ridiculous monotony - if Terri was really that simple she would be arrested, tried, and convicted, waiting for the injection that ends her life.

In MOO no person is ever as simple or powerful as Terri has been described to be. I don't think Terri is as simple as black vs white. moo mho

I don't believe stmarysmead in any way, shape, or form even alluded to Terri being "simple".. I do not think anything that has been shown, read, and come to light concerning Terri is "simple"...In fact I don't believe the word "simple" would apply to ANYTHING about Terri Horman.

If she were "simple", if her frame of mind were "simple", if what she had done with Kyron were "simple" there would not be a precious little 7 yr old boy's remains God knows where, with God only knows{and Terri of course} what was done to that precious little boy that was absolutely defenseless at the hands and mercy of this monster named Terri Horman...

I don't believe anyone has ever stated, thought, or even alluded to this monster as "simple"...

 

[grandmaj]

Stop personalizing your posts.

 

[grandmaj]

If anyone has a link to back up their statements about Kaine being involved in Terri's increase in child support please provide it.

If not I consider it a bait, and I also consider it a bash.

Knock it Off.

I've removed at least 5 posts because this continues to be baited. I will continue to remove any post which states this and if it continues to occur offenders will get a TO.

 

[ami]

Seems that Terri is painted as a woman with immense power, telling the courts, parents, inlaws, and husbands what to do. She is painted as being immensely powerful and those she interacted with are painted as being immensely impotent, powerless, brainless, stupid, without backbone. I contend that having a life full of spineless people is against statistical odds and at odds with human behavior as we know it. moo mho

Are you sure Terri said NO to custody, or did the court say NO to custody - did the courts say NO to custody due to crystal meth and/or a failing marriage?

Are you sure Terri took the SECOND INLAWS money? Terri was in a debilitating car accident from which she won money from a lawsuit. Amount unknown. Are you sure she didn't use that money for school? And once again, did Terri stronghold, threaten, or manipulate poor spineless in-laws to get the money as you say she did?

Just wondering because it seems that Terri has been painted ONE color by many, to the point of ridiculous monotony - if Terri was really that simple she would be arrested, tried, and convicted, waiting for the injection that ends her life.

In MOO no person is ever as simple or powerful as Terri has been described to be. I don't think Terri is as simple as black vs white. moo mho

Certainly all victims deserve compassion, but after some things we've learned recently I'm feeling much more compassion for Desiree.

According to Desiree,

- Desiree wanted Kyron to live with her and began trying to make that happen about a year before Kyron went missing, and
- Kyron wanted to live with Desiree, and
- TH wanted Kyron to live with Desiree, but
- to Kaine, that wasn't an option.

Why oh why was it not an option for Kyron to live with his mom, who wanted him, rather than TH, who did not??

Oh yes, it was an option. Then. But not now.

Just my opinion. Also just my opinion that TH is responsible for whatever happened to Kyron.

IIRC, the in-laws themselves (weren't the second set the ones who were interviewed in that article?) said their money was used for Terri's education. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will point it out! lol!

About Kyron not living with Desiree... I don't know what to believe. Did Kyron really want to leave his school and his state and his sister and his Dad? Maybe he said that when it was time to leave Desiree's house - but kids in blended families do that. They settle in, they don't want to leave Dad's, then a week later they're having fun and don't want to leave Mom's house. So I don't think we can assume that Kyron wanted to leave his own home. Kaine said he reacted similarly when Kyron was off to Desiree's - he often wanted to stay at home.

Also, from what I know of Desiree I really like her. I feel for her and I respect her. But if she'd really wanted to change Kyron's situation, she would have worked at it. She's a strong, smart, passionate woman who is not afraid to speak her mind - we've all seen that. If she was committed to Kyron living with her again, she wouldn't have suggested it to Kaine, been shot down and then let it go. She would have swallowed her distaste and teamed up with Terri and convinced Kaine to "try it for a year", or taken Kaine to court, or pursued it mercilessly with him. I really don't think anyone (except maybe Terri, secretly) was seriously thinking of changing Kyron's residence at the time. I'm not surprised at all that losing his son wasn't an option for Kaine - clearly he loves him, and which of us parents would willingly send one of our children away from us if we didn't have to?

 

[txsvicki]

I think a parent owes it to the child to let him live with his mother if he is sobbing and wants to go, and the Mother is asking. Desiree was somehow cheated of being able to raise her son because she developed an illness (I'm still very suspicious about that). She shared him for years, and Kaine's marriage was obviously falling apart. Maybe he was planning a divorce and that's what brought all this on. He admits they had discussed divorce since the birth of the baby, so there must be more to it. He could have planned on being a single dad and thought everything would still be fine not realizing some of the things that he's now telling the media about personality disorders. But, Kaine was only mentioning one instance of Kyron not wanting to go to Desiree's because something fun was going to be happening at home. Desiree mentions increasing unhappiness, red flags, and sobbing. That doesn't really compare to Kaine's account of Kyron very well.

 

[pufnstuf]

IIRC, the in-laws themselves (weren't the second set the ones who were interviewed in that article?) said their money was used for Terri's education. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will point it out! lol!

While struggling with a pinched nerve near her spine because of the accident, Horman went to school, earning a bachelor's degree in elementary education at Northwest Christian University. Chuck Ecker, a high school teacher, encouraged his daughter-in-law to become a teacher.

"She seemed to like kids," he said.

Richard Ecker said he paid for her education, which remains a sore point for his parents.

"He wanted to go to college, too, but she came first," Mavis Ecker said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

 

[forthelost]

I agree that TH over stated her qualifications. Essentially she has a K-8 or 9 basic credential. This means she can teach multiple subjects in this area as all elementary teachers and some middle school teachers do.

And her list of the conditions of students she has taught is... odd. Prader-Willi syndrome is a relatively rare condition; how likely is it she's taught multiple students with it?

Also, I have not the slightest clue what "OSC" and "YSC" are. If they are medical conditions, I can't find ones with those abbreviations.

 

[ami]

I think a parent owes it to the child to let him live with his mother if he is sobbing and wants to go, and the Mother is asking. Desiree was somehow cheated of being able to raise her son because she developed an illness (I'm still very suspicious about that). She shared him for years, and Kaine's marriage was obviously falling apart. Maybe he was planning a divorce and that's what brought all this on. He admits they had discussed divorce since the birth of the baby, so there must be more to it. He could have planned on being a single dad and thought everything would still be fine not realizing some of the things that he's now telling the media about personality disorders. But, Kaine was only mentioning one instance of Kyron not wanting to go to Desiree's because something fun was going to be happening at home. Desiree mentions increasing unhappiness, red flags, and sobbing. That doesn't really compare to Kaine's account of Kyron very well.

But then what if Kyron is with Desiree and then he's sobbing for Daddy and saying he wants to live back home again. Does Desiree send him back to Kaine? And back again? The thing is, kinds in blended families do struggle with mixed loyalties and the grass is greener syndrome. Kyron was with Kaine and Terri for, what, 26 out of 30 days a month? He saw Desiree 4 days a month except for vacations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he missed her more acutely because he saw her so little.

It's true it's a mystery about her illness, treatment and giving up of custody. I don't think we've heard the entire story about that. I don't know if matters to the investigation, though.

 

[eyes4crime]

Or maybe... just MAYBE... it's because he loved his son and wanted him in his home.

I have no doubt Kaine loved Kyron - but my answer alluded to the fact he gave Desiree no option about Kyron living with her. How is that loving a child? Trapping and cornering the child's mother by giving no options about where he should live is what? You say love and I say something else.

 

[pghbrandi]

I have no doubt Kaine loved Kyron - but my answer alluded to the fact he gave Desiree no option about Kyron living with her. How is that loving a child? Trapping and cornering the child's mother by giving no options about where he should live is what?

She had an option though. She could have went through the court systems if she really wanted to.

 

[cluciano63]

She had an option though. She could have went through the court systems if she really wanted to.

I have never had to deal with any custody issues, but several posters here have indicated that Desiree would have been unlikely to win custody if Kaine was fighting it, as his home was the primary and that judges are very reluctant to make any changes without some drastic change in circumstances. So she may not have really had an option, since Kaine did not tell her that Terri was an alcoholic and sometimes neglectful and having mental and/or emotional problems. If she knew these things, she might have had a chance but she didn't know them.

 

[eyes4crime]

She had an option though. She could have went through the court systems if she really wanted to.

You're right, that's a possibility, but an expensive one and a usually creates a hostile environment for the child. Maybe Desiree didn't wish to put Kyron in the middle.

Or, maybe Desiree didn't want to bring up her illness and why she went to Canada. The best solution is for the adult parents to work it out together...and in this case, that didn't happen. Desiree was not told crucial information regarding Terri, and I will continue to wonder why. moo mho

 

[yosande]

I thought this email deserved it's own thread. I haven't seen it before, so I don't think we've discussed it before. I saw on a previous thread it came up, but that thread was not specifically about this particular email, only the ones we haven't seen yet.

Here it is, from KATU:

In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so. …

“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn't go in to a doc until he was 2 years - yeah - he's farsighted 750)). He's on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it's my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”

E-mail: Terri Horman accuses Kaine of being overbearing
Video: http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html?tab=video
Article: http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html?



Interesting. There's not much she doesn't complain about here. Everything is Kaine's fault, even her having to contribute monetarily to the household for a fraction of what Kaine probably pays every month for the house, kids, and Terri. It's her own fault for not working that she doesn't have her own money. Sounds like she expected a free ride with no chores or anything and to keep her child support for herself. I wish I could have that life. How unrealistic is that today's world?

There are also a lot inconsistencies in this email. She says she had to ask him before going out to meet anyone, yet tells MC that all she had to was lie about baby K and then she'd get to go see him. I don't think she had a problem leaving the house when she wanted. Also, as pointed out, Desiree transferred custody to Kaine when Kyron was 1 and 1/2 to 2 years old. So how she could notice something they didn't when he was six months old when they didn't have custody of him yet? I highly doubt she was working with him at that point.

Sounds like she wanted as much sympathy as she could get, so why not blame everything on Kaine but the kitchen sink. No wait, add that too. This is all IMO, by the way.

What do you guys think? I'd love to hear your take on this particular email.

I'm not sure how she could get unemployment if she stopped working to care for Kyron at birth; and btw, that sounds like a blame Kyron as much as Kaine complaint to me. jmo though

 

[miabellamoure]

Having been in the situation before of being intimidated by a spouse/exspouse, you would be surprised at the things you won't persue because of it. Fortunately for me, after a court battle, I did have sole custody of my children. One of my daughter's told me years ago that their Father never really wanted them, he wanted them because he knew I did. There are many layers in situations like these.

I agree, Terri probadly was very jealous and hated Kryon. I really try to look at all situations objectively. Naturally, killing Kryon was not the answer if she did it. Kaine is overbearing and as I see him, IMO, he is a manipulative person too. Did he do things to make Terri extremely jealous? Did he know Kryon wanted to live with his Mother and simply said no because he knew she wanted him? Why did he make it so difficult for Desiree? Did he imtimidate Terri to make HIS life what he wanted it? Many questions.

:cow:

I'm not sure that may have been the case with Kaine. It may have been as simple as things like Kyron had already spent 7 years with his Daddy. Desiree & Tony do not live nearby either.

I for one would rather not see broken families & children split between two households but, if Desiree lived within an hour distance of Kaine maybe it wouldn't have been a "no option" response from Kaine.

 

[Trt]

I have no doubt Kaine loved Kyron - but my answer alluded to the fact he gave Desiree no option about Kyron living with her. How is that loving a child? Trapping and cornering the child's mother by giving no options about where he should live is what? . moo mho

Desiree said that both of her sons' fathers denied her requests to have them back in the home with her. I'd imagine that both fathers considered the toll that a move five hours away would take on their sons and decided that simply because Desiree wanted them back wasn't a good enough reason to uproot them.

And Desiree apparently agreed since she did not make any moves legally to try and get custody of either child. I wonder what Kyron told Kaine? I'd imagine that Desiree telling Kaine that Kyron said he wanted to live with her would prompt some conversation between him and his son.

I doubt very seriously that Terri told Kaine that she wanted Kyron to life with Desiree. The one who in her mind took care of him when his "natural mother wouldn't" is just going to turn him back over with no problems once the "natural mother" is ready for him? I think the whole "Terri wanted me to have him to" is another example of Mrs. Horman playing both sides against the middle. Telling Kaine that he should fight to keep Kyron in the home while telling Desiree that she agreed with her about her rights as a mother(but shhh, don't tell Kaine. Btw, he makes me sick and I don't know how you put up with him all that time...) jmo

 

[SmoothOperator]

When dealing with divorced families with custody in place{for whatever reasons..DY's was because she was fighting for her life, literally, in Canada and did what was in the best interest of her son}.. I do not know of many if any where when one of the parents wants to have the child taken from the custody of the other...well, how many would honestly say"ok, sure. just take him..no prob"...this doesn't happen..not in "real life"

In theory it sounds great, it sounds easy but in real life situations it just does not work that easy.. Example if a mom has had custody for 5+ yrs of a child whom the father she is divorced from has custody/visitation every other weekend.. The child for whatever reasons{reasons unknown at the time} is acting more upset when having to leave dad's house..She says daddy I wanna live with you...

This father goes to his ex wife and says our daughter has been getting upset at times when time for her to come back to you{again there is no abuse nor any certain situation that is known to be the root cause}..and the dad says to his ex, "so, why don't we change the custody/visitation to where she is living full time with me"..

Now regardless of what is going on in mom's home{especially if the majority of the "root problem" the mom is not aware of and is not happening in her presence}...That mom IS NOT GOING TO SAY, OK FINE, SHE CAN LIVE WITH YOU"... It doesn't happen this way in real life.. At the time that mom thinks her child's stability of living full time in her home, going to school, friends, etc is what is most important to keep intact for her child.. This is reality...

Dad of course has the option to take it back to court..but upon meeting with his atty is told that because there is nothing to indicate abuse, neglect, etc that a judge will not reverse the custody order... This too is the reality of how things work in the real world...

it is only after-the-fact{so very sadly and unfortunately for all involved, especially Kyron}but it is only then that the true nature of what was going on in the home has come to light.. Just as the mom in the above example was protective of her childs best interests, which she thought she was doing the right thing by keeping the child in her same home, her same school, her same friends, etc... yes the mom may have seen that tensions had been strained between her daughter and step parent, BUT HAD NO IDEA WHATSOEVER AS TO THE TRUE NATURE, NOR THE EXTENT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING..

This too is the exact same for Kaine... He, at that time thought it was best keeping Kyron's primary residence with him{for the same reasons given above by the example of the mom}...therefor his response to Desiree would be a firm, "That is not an option"..

And Desiree was concerned for her child's being upset but having no certain occurance of an abusive situation just a 7 yr old expressing he wanted to stay with Mom and Tony.. She did go to Kaine and spoke to him about changing the custody but as I explained above Kaine, too thought what he was doing was in Kyron's best interest..
And quite possibly it was explained to Desiree that with nothing known at that time{of harm, abuse or neglect happening to Kyron} that a judge would NOT reverse the custody...THIS IS TRUE, THIS IS 100% ACCURATE AND THIS IS WHY i, PERSONALLY WILL NOT FIND FAULT AND BLAME ON EITHER OF THESE PARENTS...

Because with what was known at the time{very little and of that little known NONE WOULD HAVE REVERSED CUSTODY}...

Think about it...Because what I am saying is the Truth of the matter here...

 

[cluciano63]

We have no idea of what Kaine said to Desiree when she asked to change custody arrangements; it may not have been a pleasant conversation at all. She remembers it as Kaine telling her it was "not an option."