TH's emails shed light on Horman split

[Trt]

We have no idea of what Kaine said to Desiree when she asked to change custody arrangements; it may not have been a pleasant conversation at all. She remembers it as Kaine telling her it was "not an option."

No we don't. I doubt if it was a pleasant conversation. Kaine had custody of Kyron for 4 years and Desiree decides that she wants him five hours away with her? If my ex came to me with that, I probably wouldn't be the most pleasant person to speak with either. I'd speak with my child(which I do believe Kaine probably did as well, nothing to substantiate this though) and if my child wasn't expressing the same concerns to me, I'd tell my ex that I'm not uprooting my child after all this time...it's not an option.

Jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

Seems that Terri is painted as a woman with immense power, telling the courts, parents, inlaws, and husbands what to do. She is painted as being immensely powerful and those she interacted with are painted as being immensely impotent, powerless, brainless, stupid, without backbone. I contend that having a life full of spineless people is against statistical odds and at odds with human behavior as we know it. moo mho

I don't see her as immensely powerful..just very successfully manipulative. There is a difference. I think the sexts gave us an insight into Terri. Even though the recipient seems less than enthralled..she persists. She lies to her new attorneys (that someone else is paying for) Instead of gratitude to that donor...she's already reckless. That's NOT appreciation. That's a self-involved willfulness IMO. The whole sexting scenario, when she KNEW she was being watched by LE..speaks of willfulness, defiance, entitlement, and recklessness. Not even FEAR of LE can stop her destructive behavior. The people around her do not need to be weak. The woman cannot be controlled or control herself. Not even the new High priced lawyers could contain her from indulging herself...asking others to lie.

Are you sure Terri said NO to custody, or did the court say NO to custody - did the courts say NO to custody due to crystal meth and/or a failing marriage?

And either way..she had her way. But years later, was happy to unload that child back to that man. Is she SURE that it's a safe situation? Or does she care? She wants what she wants? Did she require a home check if there was once a crystal meth problem? Why not? This is her SON!

Are you sure Terri took the SECOND INLAWS money? Terri was in a debilitating car accident from which she won money from a lawsuit. Amount unknown. Are you sure she didn't use that money for school? And once again, did Terri stronghold, threaten, or manipulate poor spineless in-laws to get the money as you say she did?

The inlaws described it this way. Not flattering to her. And she repaid the family by draining every penny she could out of their son when he asked her to be reasonable about child support for a son he never saw again. Such empathy! Terri's kind of gratitude! Were the in-laws ever repaid for her education? They indicate not.

Just wondering because it seems that Terri has been painted ONE color by many, to the point of ridiculous monotony - if Terri was really that simple she would be arrested, tried, and convicted, waiting for the injection that ends her life.

Be patient. They are building the case.

In MOO no person is ever as simple or powerful as Terri has been described to be. I don't think Terri is as simple as black vs white. moo mho

She is not black and white. But she is not Facebook Terri either..and common sense prevents us from putting a sunny pro-Terri spin on each and every ugly detail that emerges.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Honestly I don't believe it would be a "pleasant" conversation if my ex were to come and ask me if we could reverse the custody{and he lives 3 miles from me..lol}but I would make it very clear and therefor very firm "that is not an option"..and the same for if our roles were reversed{if he had primary and I went to him to ask to reverse it}...

This would be even doubly so, and doubly as firm with my "that is not an option" if he lived 4+ hrs away{and my child would be primarily living 4+ hrs away}...

Firm was appropriate..with what was known at that time..

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I see that a lot of people side with Desiree on this, but it's funny that for me, I understand both parents. I get both sides. Equally.

Kaine loved Kyron. I think nobody can argue with this. He loved his son very much. I'm sure Kaine loved walking Kyron to school and just having the presence of his little guy around. Can anyone blame a father that has had primary custody of his kid for years just "give up" it? I think giving up custody of your child is one of the last things most parents would do. I can't understand how people think it's weird that Kaine wouldn't just hand his precious boy to live 5 hours away - even if is to live with his loving mom. It just doesn't happen. I've never seen a parent give up child custody just because...

If he considered it, he'd be awknowledging that Terri had SERIOUS issues, and I really don't think he did. Kaine would have never given up on Kyron. I'm pretty sure that if he knew Terri was a serious threat to Kyron he would have divorced her. Like he just did. He would divorce Terri, but not give up Kyron. So the line of argument that Kaine should have just given Kyron to Desiree makes no sense to me. So he should give up on his kid because his wife was a threat to the boy and his own house was not safe for his kid? Yeah, because Kaine believed that and just put his son in danger for kicks... That he should have divorced Terri? Yes. But then if he did, he wouldn't have given up Kyron either. I just don't think giving Kyron was even a remote possibility for Kaine. Call ir controlling, I call it having normal parental instincts. Who here would give up on their child's custody?

 

[miabellamoure]

And I think a judge will be looking into this big time, as Kaine is saying in his court documents, that in fact it was not Terri who was the primary care giver of the children, but him. :

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html

Terri Horman's lawyer, Peter Bunch, has argued that Terri Horman is Kiara's primary caregiver, and that Kiara needs to see her mother, even in supervised visits.

Kaine Horman challenges Bunch's assessment.

He argues that he is Kiara's primary caregiver. He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business.

I agree with you. His court documents clearly state the alcohol problems began right after Kiara was born and he refers to them as historical.


Kaine Horman cited Terri Horman's "historical problems with the abuse of alcohol," which he argues impaired her functioning since Kiara's birth.

He said Terri Horman's conviction in 2005 for driving while under the influence of alcohol was not an isolated incident. He said Terri Horman's depression and alcoholism impaired how she cared for their daughter.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html

Some of the things that Kaine cites in those documents could also be attributed to not necessarily having complete knowledge of them at the time of occurence but, after careful reflection they became apparent & realized in their entirety.

 

[stmarysmead]

I see that a lot of people side with Desiree on this, but it's funny that for me, I understand both parents. I get both sides. Equally.

Kaine loved Kyron. I think nobody can argue with this. He loved his son very much. I'm sure Kaine loved walking Kyron to school and just having the presence of his little guy around. Can anyone blame a father that has had primary custody of his kid for years just "give up" it? I think giving up custody of your child is one of the last things most parents would do. I can't understand how people think it's weird that Kaine wouldn't just hand his precious boy to live 5 hours away - even if is to live with his loving mom. It just doesn't happen. I've never seen a parent give up child custody just because...

If he considered it, he'd be awknowledging that Terri had SERIOUS issues, and I really don't think he did. Kaine would have never given up on Kyron. I'm pretty sure that if he knew Terri was a serious threat to Kyron he would have divorced her. Like he just did. He would divorce Terri, but not give up Kyron. So the line of argument that Kaine should have just given Kyron to Desiree makes no sense to me. So he should give up on his kid because his wife was a threat to the boy and his own house was not safe for his kid? Yeah, because Kaine believed that and just put his son in danger for kicks... That he should have divorced Terri? Yes. But then if he did, he wouldn't have given up Kyron either. I just don't think giving Kyron was even a remote possibility for Kaine. Call ir controlling, I call it having normal parental instincts. Who here would give up on their child's custody?

Thanks for a touching, insightful post. Just looking at the skeleton of himself that Kaine is today, one can see how this Dad loved his son.

I'm glad he has that little girl to comfort him.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

Thanks for a touching, insightful post. Just looking at the skeleton of himself that Kaine is today, one can see how this Dad loved his son.

I'm glad he has that little girl to comfort him.

No problem. I mean, I understand why most people here side with Desiree. She's open, she's a women, she's emotional, like most of us. Kaine is logical and harder for us, specially women, to understand. But you know, talking about grace, I think Kaine has shown a lot of it. I understand Desiree going through the "grief" period, but I haven't seen Kaine attack her at all. I mean, I'm sure he could say he cared for Ky and that Desiree gave up on him and that he raised him... but he has never pointed ANY fingers at Desiree. None at all. And I really DOUBT he will.

He only started poiting fingers at Terri when it becane clear that it was necessary to do so in order to protect his daughter and hopefully find his son. Kaine's SOLE focus, since day 1, has been to protect both of his child.

ps. sorry for some mispellings. english is not my first language and my keyboard is problematic today.

 

[stmarysmead]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

"Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron."

I tried to find a Terri motive thread, but most of them had been closed. I'm not sure where to put this, but it is in the emails article linked above.

I wonder what lead Desiree to this conclusion? Many of us have speculated that it was Kaine with whom Terri was upset and was the prime motivating factor.

So, the in the emails Desiree read, she concluded that:
1. "Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,”
2. "Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron."
3. “I no longer had that little part of me that hoped she hadn’t done anything to Kyron,” Desiree said after she read the e-mails. “I realized that she is capable of hurting him. That was the hardest part about it.”

Desiree is a beautiful woman. Little Kyron looked so much like her...think of that smile!

Once Terri stole Desiree's husband and in time....Terri also had her child to raise. Terri was competing in those contests...slim and attractive. Desiree was very sick. At that moment in time, Terri was triumphant against her rival. She won THAT competition!

But years passed. Desiree had a job, a happy marriage, maybe more money to spend on herself...and was so lovely. Terri had gained some weight..was jobless...drinking...unemployed.

I wonder if Kyron's little face, so much like his Mom's...fueled part of the hatred in Terri that emerged in these emails. I imagine she was continually nice to Desiree's face, but the emails showed a vicious other side.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I see that a lot of people side with Desiree on this, but it's funny that for me, I understand both parents. I get both sides. Equally.

Kaine loved Kyron. I think nobody can argue with this. He loved his son very much. I'm sure Kaine loved walking Kyron to school and just having the presence of his little guy around. Can anyone blame a father that has had primary custody of his kid for years just "give up" it? I think giving up custody of your child is one of the last things most parents would do. I can't understand how people think it's weird that Kaine wouldn't just hand his precious boy to live 5 hours away - even if is to live with his loving mom. It just doesn't happen. I've never seen a parent give up child custody just because...

If he considered it, he'd be awknowledging that Terri had SERIOUS issues, and I really don't think he did. Kaine would have never given up on Kyron. I'm pretty sure that if he knew Terri was a serious threat to Kyron he would have divorced her. Like he just did. He would divorce Terri, but not give up Kyron. So the line of argument that Kaine should have just given Kyron to Desiree makes no sense to me. So he should give up on his kid because his wife was a threat to the boy and his own house was not safe for his kid? Yeah, because Kaine believed that and just put his son in danger for kicks... That he should have divorced Terri? Yes. But then if he did, he wouldn't have given up Kyron either. I just don't think giving Kyron was even a remote possibility for Kaine. Call ir controlling, I call it having normal parental instincts. Who here would give up on their child's custody?

Yes indeed, curiousgirl.. You and I are on the same page... That is exactly what I am questioning, just as you{above BBM}..

It is not near as easy or simple as some are portraying it to be... Once again that DAMN HINDSIGHT is a CRYSTAL CLEAR 20/20!..If only we had this foresight...

Thanks for your post

 

[miabellamoure]

I'm thinking of how I felt after I had my first child....all other children were just not as special as "my baby":angel:...I didn't have the overwhelming desire to babysit anymore for my friends either. My world revolved around my baby.

Who knows after K**** was born, maybe Kyron was old news and not as novel as he once was. It would be understandable for him to act out as any child does when the new sibling arrives...oh it just makes me sick to think he was feeling tossed aside by Terri and the brunt of her frustrations.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

No problem guys. I just have a lefty brained engineer father who stuck with my mom through her alcoholic and drug addictions for 16 years. And he did not remove his girls from that troubled home. You guys have NO idea how hard it is to deal with this situation. My father protects my sister and I so much and have cared for us all of our lives while trying to control my mom. If, G-d forbid, anything had happened to my sister or I and people blamed him... for fighting such a tough battle for us, for our family, I would not be happy. As I'm sure Kyron wouldn't be.

Fortunetly for us, my mother is just another statistics of bi-polar/depressed women who is also a victim of addiction. And not a cold blooded, sociopathic probable-murderer.

 

[citigirl]

I'm with these last few posters on this...Kaine carried a lot of responsibility when he took Kyron...when Desiree was too sick too care for him...and when Desiree moved away, and could only see him every other weekend. He also took in Terri's son. Terri had a lot on her plate, but Kaine had all that and a full-time job.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

Yeah I mean, however we slice this, the only difference between this blended family and millions of others - like yours and mine, is Terri Horman. She is the only odd one out here. She is the only one we should be pointing fingers at.

 

[citigirl]

Yeah I mean, however we slice this, the only difference between this blended family and millions of others - like yours and mine, is Terri Horman. She is the only odd one out here. She is the only one we should be pointing fingers at.

I keep hoping she is out of her mind with dread at her future...it's the only way I can stomach what she's done. That, and hoping still that Kyron is alive...

 

[sorrell skye]

Totally agree! And I am willing to wager Kaine was the recipient of her now famous sexting act as well. That's how she reels em in, then seals the deal with her golf ball/garden hose act. Diabolical! How can a 7 month pregnant woman compete with that????

bbm

Since it has been brought up, and since a question has been framed in terms of "How can a 7 month pregnant woman compete with that?"

My opinion is: I suppose if a husband of a pregnant wife is more interested in sex with another woman who claims special talents regarding golf balls & garden hoses, than in honoring his vows to his wife who is pregnant with his unborn child and figuring out a way to keep his family intact, then, yes, I agree, how can an 7 month pregnant woman compete with that?

Answer: she can't, nor should she feel she has to.

ETA: KH was equally responsible for his choices, just as TH was responsible for hers (regarding the affair).

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I keep hoping she is out of her mind with dread at her future...it's the only way I can stomach what she's done. That, and hoping still that Kyron is alive...

You know...what's funny is that I don't see her claiming an insanity defense or any emotional instability. For someone so emotionally troubled, she's doing a hell of a good job keeping her silence. Looks very controlled to me. I think Terri is VERY aware of her actions. And that might just bite her later...

 

[citigirl]

You know...what's funny is that I don't see her claiming an insanity defense or any emotional instability. For someone so emotionally troubled, she's doing a hell of a good job keeping her silence. Looks very controlled to me. I think Terri is VERY aware of her actions. And that might just bite her later...

I really hope she is aware...and is awake all night because of her nightmares...

 

[ami]

Agree with all of the posts above.... giving up your child because the other parent asks you to is usually not an option.

I wonder what the original custody agreement was when Desiree got sick and Kyron came to live with Kaine and Terri? Did Terri perhaps believe that Kyron's presence was temporary, and when Desiree recovered physically he would move back in with her? I wonder if that's why Terri (who otherwise played the role of the happy busy mamma) was willing to tell Desiree that she thought Kyron should move back with Desiree?

 

[Billylee]

Oh, mods, sorry but I just realized my last post where I brought the news article over had the baby's name in it and it's too late to edit. Post 170 & 172. Can you fix it for me? Thank you.

 

[debirlfan]

I completely understand what you're saying...and agree that Desiree would more than likely "know" Terri's emails..mainly because that Was what the majority Of their "relationship" was based upon{i.e. via electronic communications}

But I do not believe LE was using Desiree as their way to tell if the emails were "authentic"{as in sent from Terri personally}..

First and foremost that would not be the case is that it would be more than unethical{not saying that LE cannot use unethical means..but with the victim's parents? ...NEVER} and above all else would be cruelty at its worst...

For LE not to be certain emails were "authentic" to involve the victim's parents{victims themselves}to be the "gauge" for validity of an email is just not a possibility..IMO..
Especially given the apparent nature of these emails...There is just no way that LE would inflict undue and COMPLETELY unnecessary pain and anguish on the parents by having them read the vicious nature and intense hatred that was detailed in the emails for their own son who has been missing for more than 6 mos...and for LE not to even know if they were actually sent from Terri...I'd say not only would there be heads on a chopping block at the LE station but an atty would have a hayday and open&shut case for a slam dunk lawsuit for such cruel and unjust treatment of victims.

And then secondly would be because it is not necessary to do so{have the parents be the "gauge" of validity}.. With FBI involved in this case from day one of Kyron "disappearing"..and have stated on more than one occasion that FBI agts as well as their resources were there to assist in any way they could the MCSO.. Our federal technology is more than capable of identifying EXACTLY WHO, WHEN, WHERE, HOW sent the emails along with a direct, detailed path that the emails made from the originating computer all the way to the emails and computers they were received at{every single last computer and user that received the email[whether read or NOT..EVEN if it was immediately deleted before even being read]}...the technology is such that with hardly any effort whatsoever it will give LE every detail they need{and even a bunch they don't even need}...thats just how detailed that electronic communications can be traced and/or tracked down..

So, IMO when LE chose to share these disturbing, frightening, and sickening posts to the parents...LE had PROOF POSITIVE THAT THEY CAME FROM TERRI, HERSELF....

You miss my point. I'm certain LE could easily identify what computer the emails came from - so surely they came from Terri's computer. However, that does not positively indicate that they were typed by TH herself. Given that there would have been very few people with access to that computer, Desiree might be the perfect judge of whether the emails actually "sounded" like her.