Timeline Discussion

[Peliman]

So they still do all of this with actual tape? It's not digital?

Each station is different and uses similar equipment. The cameras can be a digital tape or have a removable chip or hard disk depending on the equipment. What I explained is generally accepted news station practice. Cost is always a factor.

Cross your fingers but so far the sheriff has not issued subpeonas.

 

[Haeve]

Do parents still videotape their kids with actual video cameras or do they just use digital cameras and cell phones for brief films now? I'm sure they asked all the parents present at the science fair for home video, snapshots, etc. Too bad there wasn't a video-happy parent who filmed his child and surroundings the whole time, but it sounds like a) the event wouldn't have been very video-worthy (static displays), b) most parents were only there before the kids toured the displays and c) a parent volunteer chaperone would have to concentrate on the kids (I would hope) and not be filming the proceedings.

 

[human]

I don't know why the TV station wouldn't give th tapes up without a subpoena.

This is an extraordinary event, or do they just feel that they have to do it as a matter of principle because they want to keep things consistent for every situation?

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Which is probably what LE really wants.

If there are three "takes" of an interview with one person, and the one that aired varies substantially from those that didn't (inclusion of a time has been made, or a name added, or a more confident tone of voice used) that matters.

If someone the news source didn't find credible enough to put on TV claims to have seen Kyron and TH at a gas station at 10:15, but it's on tape somewhere, that matters.

And if they have dozens of kids saying they never saw Kyron, or a teacher he normally said hello to wondering why he wasn't there the day of the science fair that's not "newsworthy" but to LE it matters.

The footage that was aired is all over the internet. No need to ask ANYONE for that!

BBM

I know you do not mean this to be funny but I couldn't help but laugh considering we are seeing video footage clips of TM just getting on elevators. I am pretty sure that if anyone claiming this (or something new) and willing to speak to the media (on camera or in print, it would get broadcasted or published. JMO

I think that LE would like to see the raw footage to ensure that the reporter (or anyone else for that matter) did not coached the subject on what to say or if there were other "takes" or "re-asks" where the comment changed or was slightly different in its details. JMO

 

[Gin]

I hope this doesn't slow things down.



http://www.katu.com/news/local/98533964.html

Do I get it philosophically? Yea. Do I get it ethically? No. There might be information on that tape that could help find a small boy. So disturbing.
If that subpoena does come their way, I hope they act with haste.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Do I get it philosophically? Yea. Do I get it ethically? No. There might be information on that tape that could help find a small boy. So disturbing.
If that subpoena does come their way, I hope they act with haste.

And if I were in charge of that newsroom, I would archive all event-related footage until after the event is complete, in case there is something that may be relevant later on in the case.

 

[cluciano63]

I hope everyone involved keeps copies of everything. This case is just weird enough to end up hinging on missing evidence.

 

[Peliman]

I don't know why the TV station wouldn't give th tapes up without a subpoena.

This is an extraordinary event, or do they just feel that they have to do it as a matter of principle because they want to keep things consistent for every situation?

Just to explain a little more, stations require a subpoena as a matter of law. Many legalities exist in a sue happy public. A subpoena at our newsroom was a requirement issued by the legal department. I couldn't even show a child's face unless the child's parents signed a media release. Sometimes done at some schools at the beginning of the year.

Alot a photographer can and can't do. I've had my share of people shaking their finger at me yelling, "if you put me on TV, I'll sue." and I might put them on TV anyway.

 

[SmoothOperator]

wasnt sure where to post this but found it on an article dealing with the timeline... feel free to move if need be..

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

What happened to the boy who went missing is unclear~end quote

above BBM. This is the first I had heard that Kyron actually called Terri MOM!!!!! I am shocked and upset by this....

www.oregonlive.com

 

[newone]

This whole case is every parent's nightmare. How many times did I do this myself.....standing feet away from my kid's classroom as they 'wave me off'.

 

[carole]

wasnt sure where to post this but found it on an article dealing with the timeline... feel free to move if need be..

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

What happened to the boy who went missing is unclear~end quote

above BBM. This is the first I had heard that Kyron actually called Terri MOM!!!!! I am shocked and upset by this....

www.oregonlive.com

He called Desiree "momma".

 

[DairyGirl]

wasnt sure where to post this but found it on an article dealing with the timeline... feel free to move if need be..

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

What happened to the boy who went missing is unclear~end quote

above BBM. This is the first I had heard that Kyron actually called Terri MOM!!!!! I am shocked and upset by this....

www.oregonlive.com

It just saddens me to think that the person he thought of as Mom and probably trusted with all his heart has betrayed him so badly. Even if she is innocent she isn't lifting a finger to find the child that called her "Mom".

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think they can tell time...but to be able to say within ten or so minutes when something occurred on a very busy morning might be different. And if this all comes down to a matter of minutes whether or not LE can press charges, it might get complicated. I doubt any of the children were clock-watching or looking at watches. The teachers and other adults should be able to narrow it, one would hope.

That's true of most witnesses, including adults.

Have you ever seen someone check their watch and then asked them the time? They usually end up checking their watch again because they weren't really thinking about objective chronological time, they were checking to see if they had enough time to do something or how much longer they had to wait or some such thing.

One thing I find hopeful in establishing timeline is that the school bell rang at 8:45 am, which is right in the middle of the crucial time period. That should help witnesses place their recollections either before or after that time, which would be immensely helpful.

 

[newone]

What troubles me the most is that pappa didn't participate in the ''search'' (he might get lost - valid point?) and both he and bio mom did well in press conferences, what was left for TH to do? (Well we all wish she could have been more verbal and forthcoming)....is she just ''stuck'' in the groove (PPD?) and unable to move in a direction that is productive?

 

[GrainneDhu]

That vanishing act is the really exceptional and puzzling thing about this case. Looking at Terri's behavior and personality and priorities, it's not hard to see where she'd have a strong motive and sufficient callousness to get rid of Kyron. But that really doesn't get us a millimeter closer to understanding *how* she (or anyone else) could have managed to get him out of the crowded school setting with no one noticing. We're so busy being appalled at all the reports of her made-for-tabloids behavior, both before and since Kyron's disappearance, that we haven't focused much on her apparently exceptional skill in planning and executing a major crime. But unless there's some major, MAJOR witness evidence that LE hasn't released (and that contradicts their public statement that the last non-Terri sighting of Kyron was inside the school the building), then she *did* manage to get him out of there without anyone seeing it happen.

SBM

There's actually been rather a lot of discussion on WebSleuths about just how TMH or any other person (child or adult) could have gotten Kyron out without being observed.

There have been many, many theories put forth and all of them at least somewhat plausible (I personally don't think it's highly plausible that he was removed inside a large duffel or trash container but I could be wrong).

I consider the setting. The school has many large, beautiful trees around it such that most windows are at least somewhat obscured from the parking lot. That morning was not a usual morning because the science fair exhibits were set up inside the school and the people inside were moving around looking at them.

I think it was the visual equivalent of crowd noise; there was so much to see that much of it just blended together.

Adults coming and going, excited kids milling around, no clear choreography, it was the perfect opportunity to disappear one kid while in plain sight.

There is no way to prove this but I would not be at all surprised to learn that one or more people saw TMH leaving but immediately forgot what they had seen.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I hope they have 24/7/every-second surveillance on her, if they're planning on finding her when they're ready. She seems to have managed to "disappear" Kyron right out of a crowded elementary school, and nobody's been able to find him since. If she can disappear-and-hide him that effectively, she may be able to disappear-and-hide herself too.

SBM

I think that if the perpetrator turns out to be TMH, it will turn out to not involve premeditation. She does not strike me as being a very good strategic thinker or to have the patience/self control to get through an intricate plan.

 

[GrainneDhu]

And if I were in charge of that newsroom, I would archive all event-related footage until after the event is complete, in case there is something that may be relevant later on in the case.

The flip side of that is: who would you then be working for? Your station or LE?

I think your station could be pardoned if they decided you were actually working for LE and suggested to you that you arrange to draw your paycheck directly from LE rather than the station.

News outlets thrive on contact with witnesses who may not actually want to testify in court but want to say their piece anyway.

If a news outlet were seen to have a pattern of holding onto raw footage to provide to LE, I think it would have a significantly chilling effect on their ability to get witnesses to speak on film. The thought of having to go into court to explain and possibly defend what they said to a news reporter would discourage many from speaking out.

And that would also be the slippery slope of getting into journalists' work notes, particularly notes of interviews from unnamed sources. It is such an important part of journalism that many journalists have gone to jail rather than reveal their sources.

I salute them. A free press is necessary to act, in part, as the public watchdog over the doings of government, including LE. Look what goes on in countries that do not have a free press!

 

[GrainneDhu]

above BBM. This is the first I had heard that Kyron actually called Terri MOM!!!!! I am shocked and upset by this....

Different families handle titles of parents differently. Different cultures, too; there are some cultures where it is a mark of respect to call a woman who is about 20 or more years older than oneself and more than a casual acquaintance "Mama" or "Mother." Or, for that matter, "Auntie." Or "Miss" or "Mrs" despite actual marital status.

Would you find it as upsetting if Kyron called TMH "Mom" and DY "Mommy"?

 

[DairyGirl]

What troubles me the most is that pappa didn't participate in the ''search'' (he might get lost - valid point?) and both he and bio mom did well in press conferences, what was left for TH to do? (Well we all wish she could have been more verbal and forthcoming)....is she just ''stuck'' in the groove (PPD?) and unable to move in a direction that is productive?

There was a lot TH could do. She could provide an honest timeline for all her movements that morning, starting with what time she woke up, what she had for breakfast, etc. She could try to remember everyone she came in contact with, where she came in contact with them. A list of all stores she visited. I use my check card for everything. I can't remember what I did yesterday but my purchases would right a bell and create a timeline. I pull it up online and know exactly what I did on any given day, what items I bought, where I bought gas, what I had for lunch, it's all there. If she said she spent time at the gym there should be a record there. Most stores have video, they can line up her purchases with video and show when she was there and with whom. A lot of parking lots have them too. You can name any day of the month and one look at my bank records and I can give you a list of what I did that day. Her not remembering to me is not cutting it. She knows what time she left in the morning, I am sure she knows when she got to the school and when she left. All she has to do is fill in the blanks. There is some reason that she is not able or willing to do that.

 

[DairyGirl]

SBM

There's actually been rather a lot of discussion on WebSleuths about just how TMH or any other person (child or adult) could have gotten Kyron out without being observed.

There have been many, many theories put forth and all of them at least somewhat plausible (I personally don't think it's highly plausible that he was removed inside a large duffel or trash container but I could be wrong).

I consider the setting. The school has many large, beautiful trees around it such that most windows are at least somewhat obscured from the parking lot. That morning was not a usual morning because the science fair exhibits were set up inside the school and the people inside were moving around looking at them.

I think it was the visual equivalent of crowd noise; there was so much to see that much of it just blended together.

Adults coming and going, excited kids milling around, no clear choreography, it was the perfect opportunity to disappear one kid while in plain sight.

There is no way to prove this but I would not be at all surprised to learn that one or more people saw TMH leaving but immediately forgot what they had seen.

It would be like if you drove on the freeway. You know you see a lot of cars on the road but unless one stands out to you you don't remember what kind of cars you saw. If you see someone that is so known to the school that it isn't out of place to see them there your mind is not going to hold onto that for you. I think I might have noticed her because of her red hair and if she had baby K there she is definately a looker so I would have noticed the cute little red haired girl but unless I talked to them I wouldn't really remember it. No one knew until the next day how important it would be to remember them.