TN - Joann, 31, & Adrienne Bain, 14, Whiteville, 27 April 2012 - #5

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I do not feel sorry for TM. She knows right from wrong, she is not mentally insane, there fore she is responsible for her actions. And she will enjoy her stay in prison or death row. She helped to end the lives of a young woman and her daughter and leave two young girls with emotional scars beyond belief and without their mom and sister. She could have stayed back in Mississippi when he had this plan going down and never showed up to meet him there.
 
CinnamonGirl said:
I do not feel sorry for TM. She knows right from wrong, she is not mentally insane, there fore she is responsible for her actions. And she will enjoy her stay in prison or death row. She helped to end the lives of a young woman and her daughter and leave two young girls with emotional scars beyond belief and without their mom and sister. She could have stayed back in Mississippi when he had this plan going down and never showed up to meet him there.
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I'm glad I won't have to be on that jury to decide her fate. If she was plotting all this on FB, she is more mentallychallenged than I thought.
 
CinnamonGirl said:
I do not feel sorry for TM. She knows right from wrong, she is not mentally insane, there fore she is responsible for her actions. And she will enjoy her stay in prison or death row. She helped to end the lives of a young woman and her daughter and leave two young girls with emotional scars beyond belief and without their mom and sister. She could have stayed back in Mississippi when he had this plan going down and never showed up to meet him there.
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She COULD have foiled the whole plan and saved lives. Hate to judge her but it is what it is now for her. Not one word I want to say is allowed here. Wonder how it feels being left behind to face it all?
I am soo happy the younger girls were not taken out by these sick but responsible monsters.

jmo
 
Bystander66 said:
I have not been able to access those FB sites. Does MFM have a FB site? The only site I can access is Bobbi Brown's.
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They've taken them all down now. By Thursday, I guess TM knew it was over, AM and the girls were gone and she had two bodies buried in her backyard. She started texting, going on FB and calling, according to Booth. Booth said at first in a number of interviews it was the first time she'd talked to TM in 11 years, because AM wouldn't allow it. More recently she's saying she would talk to her anyway.

Booth said TM told her what had happened, and every interview Booth makes a point of saying TM thought JB and AM were having an affair and she's saying she thinks they were. She didn't know JB, hadn't seen AM in 11 years, and I'm assuming that will be part of TM's defense. But TM was smart enough to realize it was going to hit the fan and she needed to start making the excuses of her part in it.
 
CinnamonGirl said:
I do not feel sorry for TM. She knows right from wrong, she is not mentally insane, there fore she is responsible for her actions. And she will enjoy her stay in prison or death row. She helped to end the lives of a young woman and her daughter and leave two young girls with emotional scars beyond belief and without their mom and sister. She could have stayed back in Mississippi when he had this plan going down and never showed up to meet him there.
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You've brought up a good point. The is a big difference between being able to claim an insanity defence as opposed to mental illnesses being considered as mitigating factors during sentencing.

I'm sure many of you have heard of the McNaughton (M'Naghten) rule, which was the first legal test/standard used to determine sane/not sane for standing trial. At the most basic level, the rule determined that if someone didn't know right from wrong, they could be declared insane. (That's an uber simplistic interpretation, but it's close enough).

Through the years, the laws have been challenged, and refined based on sometimes subtle nuances to create additional rules, like a plea of 'diminished capacity', which isn't quite the same thing as being declared legally insane.

And farther along the spectrum of psyche defenses are what is called 'mitigating factors', which often play into consideration during sentencing. Especially in death penalty cases. This is when things like bi-polar, history of abuse, low IQ usually come into play when it has been established that a suspect knew right from wrong at the time of their crime. The defense will argue that the suspect had psychological overlays that effected their judgements, or their ability to respond 'normally' to situations they knew were 'wrong'.

(I'm over simplifying this... but here is a decent 'quick and dirty' overview from Cornell Law if you want a better summary & more details:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/insane/insanity.html

My expectation is that TM's lawyers MAY try for a diminished capacity defence, dependent upon medical history in general, and especially history that might support a claim that AM was abusive & controlling.

Regardless, based on what her family has shared, I'm 99.999% certain that her attorneys will present any reports of 'slowness', mania, suicide attempts, etc. to plead for a life sentence rather than the DP. At this stage, they're already thinking about how they can keep TM alive.

And they won't have trouble getting witnesses. Bobbi, Mom Tate, past teachers, the neighbours who'd see TM screaming at Adam. The previous LE visit to the house for a suicide threat.

Legally, I think TM is most likely in a very good position to escape the DP. And between now & when she goes to trial, she'll be under medical supervision, including a med-run, if it is required. Which means by the time she testifies (or takes a plea), she might be more lucid and able to tell her story coherently.
 
WOW!!! Shocked but so happy to see the outcome this morning!!!! I didn't think he would let the girls live either but figured he'd kill himself. I can't believe he stayed so close! I wonder who tipped off LE?? And why hadn't they done it earlier?

I just still feel really bad for those girls. Yes, they were rescued, but now they are without their mother and sister. That's not something you just get over. And hopefully they didn't have to see them killed.
 
CNN is saying three more people arrested in connection with this. No article yet, just the yellow alert at the top.
 
I'm just floored that there are a total of 5 arrests thus far. How could 1 person involve so many in such a maniacal plot of murder and kidnapping of children?
 
winterrose said:
They've taken them all down now. By Thursday, I guess TM knew it was over, AM and the girls were gone and she had two bodies buried in her backyard. She started texting, going on FB and calling, according to Booth. Booth said at first in a number of interviews it was the first time she'd talked to TM in 11 years, because AM wouldn't allow it. More recently she's saying she would talk to her anyway.

Booth said TM told her what had happened, and every interview Booth makes a point of saying TM thought JB and AM were having an affair and she's saying she thinks they were. She didn't know JB, hadn't seen AM in 11 years, and I'm assuming that will be part of TM's defense. But TM was smart enough to realize it was going to hit the fan and she needed to start making the excuses of her part in it.
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I'm sorry, winterrose. I will just have to wait and see what the trial brings. I just can't condemn her until I have more facts. Of course jealousy could've been her motive in saying AM and JB had an affair------never a good reason to want someone killed, but we will see what she has to say. I have to believe in the system----innocent until proven guilty. Now the mom I do not defend as much, but that is just a gut reaction.
 
So someone made a false statement, it's going to get real interesting to see who else was involved and lied about what they knew. I wonder if this from the girls' statements to FBI.
 
Bystander66 said:
Re TM, if you saw your ex-husband ( who had abused you for eleven years) kill a woman and her 14 year old daughter, and then told you that you had to drive the trailer back to MS with the dead bodies, and you were not the brightest bulb in the pack, would you tell him no? Not to mention he had a gun.
I would like to hear what she has to say before I would form an opinion as to her culpability. JMO
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I think if she was forced to do this she would not have been charged with what she was charged with. She would be another victim. But LE clearly sees her as a perp.
 
Bystander66 said:
I'm sorry, winterrose. I will just have to wait and see what the trial brings. I just can't condemn her until I have more facts. Of course jealousy could've been her motive in saying AM and JB had an affair------never a good reason to want someone killed, but we will see what she has to say. I have to believe in the system----innocent until proven guilty. Now the mom I do not defend as much, but that is just a gut reaction.
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I find that curious, but only because I am expecting we'll learn that MM had some mental health issues, too. Going only by the interview that AM's brother gave, it certainly sounds as if she did.

Can your gut help me out here? ;) What's it saying is different between MM and TM?
TYIA
 
I found it fascinating in the FBI press conference (overnight) that Special Agent Ford was asked how the girls looked, and he said they looked like they had been in the woods for "3 days." It made me pause as I was expecting him to say "2 weeks." Big difference. So, it's not surprising (although hard to fathom) that others were involved as it made me think they were holed up somewhere (and with some help) for the previous week and half prior to those "3 days" in the woods.
 
Bystander66 said:
I'm sorry, winterrose. I will just have to wait and see what the trial brings. I just can't condemn her until I have more facts. Of course jealousy could've been her motive in saying AM and JB had an affair------never a good reason to want someone killed, but we will see what she has to say. I have to believe in the system----innocent until proven guilty. Now the mom I do not defend as much, but that is just a gut reaction.
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There's been no evidence of an affair, nothing, only his obsession with the girls. JB was educated talked about her husband and children all the time. I don't know if this will go to trial, she might just make a plea and get a lower sentence, because the lawyers will try to go the mental issues route. I hope these girls don't have to go through a trial.
 
So glad they were found safe. I never got that feeling that he killed them but I did have a feeling he may go out with a bang in front of LE. Suicide by cop after he shot one of the girls. I do wish he was alive though so he could be placed in general pop. and live in hell for a little bit then he could off himself by whatever means.

Now I hope the best for these girls who will live with this forever. Thoughts and prayers are with them.
 
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